@mr1874 said:
I still think my 1914-D might be an example from the sixth obverse die. Unfortunately, I will not have the coin in hand again as I have a customer for it. I paid $1 to a coin dealer for the coin seen above. He wasn't sure about authenticity and, in fact, was leaning towards the piece being counterfeit. So, because I am such a good customer, he let me have it for $1. I didn't want to soak in acetone for fear of a glued on 'D' falling off thus ruining the integrity of the piece for what it is. I was unable to post an enlarged picture of the obverse for some reason but by going to the cert site one can enlarge the image for closer viewing.
I will not have the coin in hand again as I have a customer for it.
The customer was my brother who wanted the piece since yours truly already has a very nice example of 1914-D cent. We traded some items. My brother owns the coin.The coin was submitted to PCGS by him. They authenticated it and made Trueview image of it. It can be seen in an earlier post I made in this thread. a thread which has been rudely disrupted for reason or reasons unknown.
My brother indicated he wanted to help with identifying and documenting with imaging ALL obverse dies (there's six of them as established by Denver mint records) used for 1914-D cents. His is a very busy guy with his day job, however, so it's not clear when the documenting by us as a team can begin. He has far more resources than I to accomplish the acquisition of coins and the imaging of same. We want to actually own the 1914-D's, at least one example from each of the six dies. We do not want accusations of copyright infringement of images to deal with since ultimately our work will be published somewhere (not necessarily here).
I have an example from one of the obverse dies used for 1914-D and my brother has another. So that's two, four to go. Very doable but not a particularly easy task to identify distinctly on 1914-D since those 'D's on 1914-D cents are all very close to each other. Whoever punched the D's at the Denver mint did so very carefully and obviously was a stickler for precision. Some 14-D's have a level D. Others tilt slightly.
The effort by my brother and I is to increase the knowledge of the collector community about 1914-D cents. We are going with PCGS for all necessary documentation of authenticity for our '14-D's acquired. I once had a 1914-D cent that I bought raw out of a shop in Denver many years ago. I wish I still had it. Most likely it would be a third example that we would own and it would be 3 down......wait a minute....I have large decent images of that piece somewhere in my files and I own those images! Maybe my brother and I won't have to buy four more 1914-D's. It could easily be 3 down, 3 to go. Hallellujah!
Hallelujah! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMOdVXAPJ0
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
It's the 4 in the date. It's been manipulated. compare it to a genuine 1914-D date.
Establishment as a fake by me was primarily done by inspecting the 'D'. It's way too to far right. The 1914 date, as a whole, does look pretty funky,though.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I have located the images I made of the '14-D that I purchased raw from a Denver coin shop many years ago. It has a level 'D' to my eyes. I might try to find a '14-D that looks like it and then purchase it. My 1914-D, a PCGS VF30 CAC has, unmistakably, a slightly tilted clockwise 'D.' I might send to PCGS for Trueview imaging. Will lose the green bean but oh well. My brother's 1914-D appears to have a slightly tilted counter-clockwise 'D'. 3 down, 3 to go. Wish us luck. I think we will use the image I made of the obverse of the raw '14-D I purchased many years ago but no longer have on the front cover of our self-published pamphlet.The image of the reverse side of the raw '14-D will be used on the back cover. The piece was XF grade or close to XF so. I'm thinking my brother and I will be on the same page for cover pictures on our pamphlet about 1914-D Lincolns. We may even get into discussion about 1909-S VDB's in our pamphlet. Too early to tell at this time. Got our hands full with '14-D at this time.
Okay. Last post here for now unless...Thanks to all who contributed here with images and thoughts about '14-D Lincolns. Credit will be given in our pamphlet to individuals (individuals who want credit, that is) who were most helpful here. Have a good rest of the day everyone!
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
The FACT that my PCGS authenticated and graded 1909-S VDB (cert #38363500) has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED bugs the h out of ^^^^, for the assertion was made in HIS thread (actually PCGS's thread, they are the owners of threads in here) that there is a "99% chance" that if 1909-S VDB has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED it is a fake. That MUST be the reason for this and other disruptions in MY threads (PCGS is the owner of MY threads here,too). I shall consult with Dr. Einstein to collect his thoughts about these developments. Meanwhile, I invite you all to listen carefully to the YouTube Hallelujah music video beautifully sung by Alison Crowe that I posted earlier. Leonard Cohen, songwriter, pure genius.
UPDATE: That was quick...
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
Albert Einstein
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
The FACT that my PCGS authenticated and graded 1909-S VDB (cert #38363500) has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED bugs the h out of ^^^^, for the assertion was made in HIS thread (actually PCGS's thread, they are the owners of threads in here) that there is a "99% chance" that if 1909-S VDB has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED it is a fake. That MUST be the reason for this and other disruptions in MY threads (PCGS is the owner of MY threads here,too). I shall consult with Dr. Einstein to collect his thoughts about these developments. Meanwhile, I invite you all to listen carefully to the YouTube Hallelujah music video beautifully sung by Alison Crowe that I posted earlier. Leonard Cohen, songwriter, pure genius.
UPDATE: That was quick...
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
The FACT that my PCGS authenticated and graded 1909-S VDB (cert #38363500) has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED bugs the h out of ^^^^, for the assertion was made in HIS thread (actually PCGS's thread, they are the owners of threads in here) that there is a "99% chance" that if 1909-S VDB has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED it is a fake. That MUST be the reason for this and other disruptions in MY threads (PCGS is the owner of MY threads here,too). I shall consult with Dr. Einstein to collect his thoughts about these developments. Meanwhile, I invite you all to listen carefully to the YouTube Hallelujah music video beautifully sung by Alison Crowe that I posted earlier. Leonard Cohen, songwriter, pure genius.
UPDATE: That was quick...
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
Albert Einstein
Would love to see an image for your amazing PCGS '09-S VDB in the holder! No images available on the on-line cert as you know.
Would love to see an image for your amazing PCGS '09-S VDB in the holder! No images available on the on-line cert as you know.
Well, I posted those images you request in this forum but I felt the need to delete them since the suggestion was made in here that I photoshopped my coin into a genuine PCGS holder. Rest assured that the holder is genuine. That's all I can offer at this time. I know this might disappoint some here but I intend to preserve the provenance of my coin by keeping it in it's original holder as I bought it. No plan to resubmit for Gold Shield with Trueview imaging at this time. I would lose the original label and holder for one thing. Another thing is, Trueview images are owned by PCGS not me. So, I would have to ask permission from them to use those images of my own coin if I were to want to publish something outside of this forum about my "amazing PCGS '09-S VDB", as you say.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said: Would love to see an image for your amazing PCGS '09-S VDB in the holder! No images available on the on-line cert as you know.
Well, I posted those images you request in this forum but I felt the need to delete them since the suggestion was made in here that I photoshopped my coin into a genuine PCGS holder. Rest assured that the holder is genuine. That's all I can offer at this time. I know this might disappoint some here but I intend to preserve the provenance of my coin by keeping it in it's original holder as I bought it. No plan to resubmit for Gold Shield with Trueview imaging at this time. I would lose the original label and holder for one thing. Another thing is, Trueview images are owned by PCGS not me. So, I would have to ask permission from them to use those images of my own coin if I were to want to publish something outside of this forum about my "amazing PCGS '09-S VDB", as you say.
Sorry, but this reason/ excuse NOT to show the slabbed image makes no sense to me; "photoshopped" images are pretty easy to distinguish. I would like to see it as "preserved". You can message it to me if you are uncomfortable showing it here...
No need to apologize. I've taken a position on showing the image of the coin in the slab. The cert # is valid. The slab was determined to be authentic PCGS product by more than one viewer here. Nothing to be gained by me showing the images here again or by messaging it to anyone. Next viewings of the piece in its original slab will be done by Lincoln cent experts. These experts I speak of will have the coin, in it's slab, in hand. I will even bring an inspection lamp with me so that the expert is able to see the coin in it's full magnificence, to include it's glorious whispering V.D.B. This coin talks to me on the front and whispers to me when I turn the slab to look at the back. Will that happen for the inspector when I show my S VDB for inspection in hand? That is the question. It will be interesting to see. The first one who will view the coin in hand is the dealer who sold me the piece. And I will have my new Harsche with me ( the reference I was advised here to "throw away") ready to refer to.
Did you ever determine what edition of Harsche's Detecting Altered Coins you ordered for your library? You need the 5th Edition. I can't stress that enough.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
What's the going rate for expert opinion (other than PCGS, of course) about a coin in its TPG slab? Is it $30/hr? Or is it more? I don't expect "free." I've got $100 or so available to pay for expert opinions about my coin.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said: I will not have the coin in hand again as I have a customer for it.
The customer was my brother who wanted the piece since yours truly already has a very nice example of 1914-D cent. We traded some items. My brother owns the coin.
So you will never see your brother again? How very sad...
Getting back to '14-D talk here is a fake '14 cent sans a 'D.' I bought this alteration for $2 as a learning teaching tool. Anyone with a Harsche 5th would never get burned by this alteration of a 1944 cent to a 1914, even with a passable 'D' added. The coin flunks the spacing test between the first 4 made into a '1' and the second 4'9'. Notice too that the created '1' is much longer than the first '1'. The second '1' should be the same length as the first '1'. Harsche discusses this alteration on page 16 of his book.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
Getting back to '14-D talk here is a fake '14 cent sans a 'D.' I bought this alteration for $2 as a learning tool. Anyone with a Harsche 5th would never get burned by this alteration of a 1944 cent to a 1914 even with a passable 'D' added. The coin flunks the spacing test between the first 4 made into a '1' and the second 4. Notice too that the created '1' is much longer than the first '1'. The second '1' should be the same length as the first '1'. Harsche discusses this alteration on page 16 of his book.
I just have to chuckle ; I am in groups of exceptional experts of coins and counterfeits, unquestionably the best in the world and NONE of them have EVER quoted anything from "Harsche". ..
Super cool - you've went from Einstien to Curt Shilling - can you please go to Jeremy Wade - I love to watch the catch and release of huge fish. And none of them have to do with coins - but yet you carry on -
EDIT : forgot - BUMP
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I quit shopping for '14-D's this evening.The acquisition of all six obverse die 'D' positions is going to take some time. Lots of sorry images of '14-D's for sale seen on ebay. Brother and I will get them all eventually but I may need to focus on buying by inspecting in hand. I did see an interesting error '14-D piece on ebay. Images are pretty good so I saved in my watch list. Price isn't terrible either.
I am in groups of exceptional experts of coins and counterfeits, unquestionably the best in the world and NONE of them have EVER quoted anything from "Harsche"
Would you rate these exceptional experts as on par with the experts at PCGS?
Bring 'em on over. I'd be interested in what they have to say. I trust you will be able to teach them a few things about 1909-S V.D.B.'s after you get your copy of Detecting Altered Coins, 5th edition. Please don't tell me your getting a Harsche edition before the 5th. I was hearing from a member here that they couldn't find Harsche discussion in their 3rd (or was it 4th?) edition about how 1909-S V.D.B's are counterfeited. I'm thinking Harsche didn't release his ground breaking work on 1909-S and 1909-S VDB cents until 1973 with the 5th edition.
Quiz for you and your experts: Which 1909-S obverse would tell you, almost without looking at the reverse of the coin, that it's a genuine 1909-S V.D.B. you have in your hands?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I quit shopping for '14-D's this evening.The acquisition of all six obverse die 'D' positions is going to take some time. Lots of sorry images of '14-D's for sale seen on ebay. Brother and I will get them all eventually but I may need to focus on buying by inspecting in hand. I did see an interesting error '14-D piece on ebay. Images are pretty good so I saved in my watch list. Price isn't terrible either.
I am in groups of exceptional experts of coins and counterfeits, unquestionably the best in the world and NONE of them have EVER quoted anything from "Harsche"
Would you rate these exceptional experts as on par with the experts at PCGS?
Bring 'em on over. I'd be interested in what they have to say. I trust you will be able to teach them a few things about 1909-S V.D.B.'s after you get your copy of Detecting Altered Coins, 5th edition. Please don't tell me your getting a Harsche edition before the 5th. I was hearing from a member here that they couldn't find Harsche discussion in their 3rd (or was it 4th?) edition about how 1909-S V.D.B's are counterfeited. I'm thinking Harsche didn't release his ground breaking work on 1909-S and 1909-S VDB cents until 1973 with the 5th edition.
Quiz for you and your experts: Which 1909-S obverse would tell you, almost without looking at the reverse of the coin, that it's a genuine 1909-S V.D.B. you have in your hands?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Super cool - you've went from Einstien to Curt Shilling
That's Einstein not Einstien. You might want to edit your post.
I have an amazing true story to tell about a coin I own that Einstein himself may have handled. It's a Prussian 3 Mark piece dated 1913. Gorgeous, lustrous, lightly circulated piece. This is the U.S. Coin Forum so I'm not comfortable telling my amazing story here about how I came into possession of said coin and why I think Einstein may have once handled it. Being met with derision and scorn here at every turn is not at all helpful.
Care to take a shot at the quiz question? Hint: The answer is in Harsche, 5th edition. A member... ah never mind I'd be giving you totoo much information.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
I quit shopping for '14-D's this evening.The acquisition of all six obverse die 'D' positions is going to take some time. Lots of sorry images of '14-D's for sale seen on ebay. Brother and I will get them all eventually but I may need to focus on buying by inspecting in hand. I did see an interesting error '14-D piece on ebay. Images are pretty good so I saved in my watch list. Price isn't terrible either.
I am in groups of exceptional experts of coins and counterfeits, unquestionably the best in the world and NONE of them have EVER quoted anything from "Harsche"
Would you rate these exceptional experts as on par with the experts at PCGS?
Bring 'em on over. I'd be interested in what they have to say. I trust you will be able to teach them a few things about 1909-S V.D.B.'s after you get your copy of Detecting Altered Coins, 5th edition. Please don't tell me your getting a Harsche edition before the 5th. I was hearing from a member here that they couldn't find Harsche discussion in their 3rd (or was it 4th?) edition about how 1909-S V.D.B's are counterfeited. I'm thinking Harsche didn't release his ground breaking work on 1909-S and 1909-S VDB cents until 1973 with the 5th edition.
Quiz for you and your experts: Which 1909-S obverse would tell you, almost without looking at the reverse of the coin, that it's a genuine 1909-S V.D.B. you have in your hands?
You can't be serious...
I apologize to everyone here if I have caused this to be prolonged- don't want to be part of the problem.
I hope the "ignore" function prevents me from even seeing anymore of this dribble...
Tu Quoque
Tu quoque (/tjuːˈkwoʊkwi, tuːˈkwoʊkweɪ/; Latin Tū quoque, for "you also"), is a discussion technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behavior and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, therefore accusing hypocrisy. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack
Questions for the reader to ask oneself: Does it and should it really matter to the reader of this "discussion" if I get the coin in my hands again? Does it and should it really matter to the reader of this "discussion" that the customer for the coin is my brother?
Rather than locate the image of the coin that my brother had certified and Trueviewed and compare to the five images of '14-D obverse provided by a gracious member here to see if it has a different position from any of the five shown, readers are being subjected to a campaign to discredit me, to make me appear inconsistent, plant the seed that I don't know what I'm talking about and hope it takes root. It's malicious, been going on for some time now in this forum and I'm getting tired of it.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
But before you do the lock (if that's what you do) I would like to share a story with readers here about a '14-D that I sold on ebay many years ago. I bought a '14-D Lincoln cent out of a long-established coin shop in Denver. The piece was very close to XF and I enjoyed owning it. But one day I decided to sell it on ebay. I listed it with pretty good images and was trying to sell it as a buy it now. Within short time I got a buy it now offer for my asking price making me wonder if I had asked enough. Buyer payed promptly using PayPal. Before I realized what was happening the buyer was offering the coin I just sold him on ebay. He jacked the grade up to AU and the image he used was a gross distortion of the image I made to sell the coin. Could barely tell it was a penny much less a '14-D. Well, to make a long story short, I erred by not cancelling the transaction and vowed if this ever happened to me again I would cancel the transaction. "I lost the coin. Can't find it anywhere, so I'm going to give you your money back." I would tell the ebay hustler. The '14-D I sold on ebay is the one that will be featured on the cover of myour pamphlet. Obverse on front cover, reverse on back. If the current owner of that coin were to see our pamphlet with the image of his or her coin on it, and contact me I would offer upwards of $700 for that '14-D provided that it's in the same original condition it was in when I owned it. If I couldn't buy the coin, the owner would at least get a free pamphlet from brother and I. After all, it's the thought that counts.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
On further reflection, I consider that this thread is too important to lock so I hereby retract my request to PCGS to have it locked. There is a lot more coming here in the way of images of '14-D's, known to be real ones as determined by our host here. Here is image of the original holder for the '14-D that I purchased for $1. I have indicated the PCGS cert # for it on the back. That # is 42698577. My brother owns the piece. I am designating it as "Spec. A" and will describe it further later. Original holder is a cardboard 1-1/2 x 1-1/2. PCGS Truview image of #42698577 directly below it:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Truview image of my 1914-D PCGS VF 30 CAC will be coming next.Once I obtain Truview image for it I will post it here. It will be designated "Spec B." Spec A1. Spec B Spec A1 cost me a little bit more than $1 to acquire.I can hardly wait to get it imaged. It is a beauty.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I found a nice looking raw '14-D on ebay last evening. It has a level 'D.' Unfortunately, the seller's close up picture of the date and mintmark revealed that the second '1' in the date is shaped like a baseball bat so I'm going to pass on buying it.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I've fallen into a numbering trap with the various dies used. That's why I've gone with letters for '14-D's that my brother and I will be acquiring. We have 2 down, 4 to go. Of course, we could end up with some duplicate 14-D die varieties accidentally. Trying to find the '14-D's of interest is going to be trickier online than it will be at shows. There seems to be only one of the six dies with cw tilting 'D', three of the six dies that have no tilt of the 'D', and two dies of the six with ccw tilting 'D'.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@Steven59 said:
Here ya go @mr1874 - I had this in my saved archives from previous forums...........I don't know if the numbering on the MM positions are correct.
This is real cool! Thanks
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
Our (brother and I) work with '14-D die varieties will be with coins we buy. So, unless we buy a duplicate or two by mistake, we'll be the proud owners of just six '14-D's, all six obverse die varieties of 1914-D cent. I've decided to make this thread Part 1. First two of our '14-D's are featured here. Part 2 will feature the next two. Part 3 will feature the last two. This project is going to take some time so we urge everyone to be patient.
The '14-D pamphlet will be in the style of Detecting Altered Coins by Harsche. Too early for advance orders at this writing but we intend to publish plenty of them to meet the demand by eager collectors, dealers, institutions of learning, etc.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Equipment needed will be a quality microscope with camera so that we can make our own closeup images of 1914-D mintmarks. This is not a get rich quick scheme by any means but it will be a lot of fun for us.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Letter codes for the varieties might be better Spec A and Spec A1 for the two '14-D's in this thread. Spec B and Spec B1 for the next two in the Part 2 thread. Finally, Spec C and Spec C1 for the last two '14-D's in the Part 3 thread. Not sure that we would want to go with the A, A1,B,B1,C, and C1 designations for the die varieties as seen in the pamphlet.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I know I said it was my last post but I have some information that may help you.
I'm not sure why I feel the need to help after I tried very hard to help you and it backfired in my face.
I don't appreciate you trashing my thread with your imagination and antics when I was being very patient and helpful.
I'm not sure why you are soo fixated on old reference material when better up to date material is at your fingertips.
It would have taken you less time to find this information than it took you to make the last 5 posts talking about it.
Your imagination is running wild to the point you are making yourself look bad and making things harder than they need to be.
Rather than making another post you should go back and read your posts over the last 25 days.
If you keep this up you will be on more "ignore" lists here than emerald.
You suggested I was "planting seeds" I have not been planting seeds.
You have been the one planting seeds and I have been watering them for you.
You have planted an 80 acre orchard and I just can't keep up with the watering. I hope this information doesn't cause you to plant more seeds.
You have been a member here a long time and I don't remember seeing this behavior in the past.
I have no way of knowing if this behavior is because of something going on in your life, if so I hope you get it worked out.
For some reason I would hate to see you go to all the time, effort and money it would take to do a reasonable job with your project. I'm sure you realize that to do a good job you will want to acquire better grade coins for your photos or the mint marks may not show as well with a little PMD. I would also hate to see you spend 5 months or 5 days on something you can find in 5 minutes. Someone else has already done this and they did a good job, it would be hard to improve on it. If someone else can find this information in 5 minutes on the web for free how are you going to market to them? If you get enjoyment from this type of research and it's all part of the hobby for you then you should move forward with your project.
I found this on the web, here are the 6 mint marks for the 1914 D.
Looks like they did a good job getting the photo size & height the same and used very good coins.
I added the lines to the second photo to see if it helped line them up.
I will soon make simple edits to my posts in this thread regarding the coding system that brother and I are using for the '14-D project we are working on. Spec stands for "specimen." "Spec B" is now "Spec A1." "Spec A" remains "Spec A."
"cw" stands for "clockwise." "ccw" stands for "counterclockwise." Reference for "tilts" is the relationship of the 'D' mintmark to the 1914 date.
Spec A- PCGS cert #42698577 (in a generation 6.15 holder). This piece has a definite ccw tilt of the 'D' mintmark.
Spec A1- current PCGS cert #84088691 (in a generation 6.1 holder). This piece has a definite cw tilt of the 'D' mintmark.
Spec A1 will be reholdered into a PCGS generation 6.15 holder. Once this is accomplished and I post the Trueview image here of Spec A1, this thread will be considered by me as being completed.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
BREAKING NEWS: I located and purchased a 6th edition of Harsche entitled How To Detect Altered Coins. Copyright date is 1978. There very well could be "new" information in this publication which appears to be an update from Harsche's 5th edition, Detecting Altered Coins (1973). Cost me a pretty penny. Seems to be very scarce.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I'm thinking our pamphlet (which will be in the style of Harsche) will cover not just '14-D Lincoln cents. It will also contain information about 1909-S V.D.B. and 1931-S. My PCGS authenticated and graded 1909-S V.D.B. from Harsche die for 1909-S without V.D.B. #6 (1909-S V.D.B. is not supposed to exist using this die) will be featured with slab images, closeup images of the date, mintmark,V.D.B., etc. to add value to our pamphlet. Exciting stuff lies ahead. Stay tuned.
8 February 2022 Update: Our 1909-S V.D.B. has been determined to be a masterful (scary good) counterfeit that will ultimately be in possession of PCGS. Needless to say, the counterfeit piece will not be featured in our 1914-D pamphlet no matter when that pamphlet might be published. Look in "Show Us Your Lucky Penny" thread for more information about the counterfeit SVDB and how it was determined to be counterfeit without sending to PCGS for review of its authenticity.
8 February 2022 address to this comment seen a few posts above:
For some reason I would hate to see you go to all the time, effort and money it would take to do a reasonable job with your project. I'm sure you realize that to do a good job you will want to acquire better grade coins for your photos or the mint marks may not show as well with a little PMD. I would also hate to see you spend 5 months or 5 days on something you can find in 5 minutes. Someone else has already done this and they did a good job, it would be hard to improve on it. If someone else can find this information in 5 minutes on the web for free how are you going to market to them? If you get enjoyment from this type of research and it's all part of the hobby for you then you should move forward with your project.
If this '14-D project does move forward at a later time, it is of no concern to brother and I about our efforts being unsuccessful in improving on work done before us. On the contrary, we see that a lot of improvement could be made in learning more about '14-D obverse varieties. Furthermore, we believe the learning improvement can be done with close-up precision imaging of mintmark from circulated examples of '14-D's from all of the various obverse dies used. As long as the mintmark 'D' is undamaged on examples we purchase, we see no problem identifying mintmark positions comparing one example to the other using precision imaging. The real challenge for us is distinguishing the "level 'D's" one from the other.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
@mr1874 said:
I see a discrepency in total mintage number between Red Book and the mint record seen in this thread. What's the real number of business strike 1914-D's made?
Red Book-1,193,000
Mint record-1,205,284
Makes one wonder where else the Red Book is wrong.
The mint does have the math right on ave. no. of pieces per die. Six dies used, 200,881 pieces per die (avg)
That image from the Mint’s records (which I originally posted in another thread) is from the die log book. Each die struck so many pieces, both good coins and rejects, and those gross totals were recorded as a means of tracking die life.
Those coins were then inspected and rejects removed and destroyed . The inspected coins were counted and bagged (typically 5,000 per bag, but variances possible) and delivered to the Cashier as coins. Odd lots (less than 5,000) left over at the end of the year possibly melted, possibly mixed in with next year’s coins.
The Redbook shows numbers delivered to Cashier for distribution, not gross number struck.
Henway comment noted.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Lots of '14-D's available in Denver so I might be able to buy an example or two needed for the project at a show there. I'm not scared to buy raw. I know enough about the obverse die varieties of '14-D to not get burned. I think I'll visit a dealer's shop that I once frequented. He is very knowledgeable about Lincoln cents. I hope he still has his shop but he could be "retired", whatever that means.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I had previously questioned the number of '14-D coins struck as shown on the mint record because the number there didn't match with my Redbook mintage number for '14-D. CaptHenway set me straight on that one. Some of the struck coins are rejected for one reason or another and subsequently scrapped. Here's another question and I'm thinking one of the experts here can answer it. If the mint record shows six obverse dies used why are there only four die identifying numbers indicated on the record?
@mr1874 said:
From the link seen above, a mint record indicating six obverse dies used for 1914-D:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Comments
Saved from an edit.
I will not have the coin in hand again as I have a customer for it.
The customer was my brother who wanted the piece since yours truly already has a very nice example of 1914-D cent. We traded some items. My brother owns the coin.The coin was submitted to PCGS by him. They authenticated it and made Trueview image of it. It can be seen in an earlier post I made in this thread. a thread which has been rudely disrupted for reason or reasons unknown.
My brother indicated he wanted to help with identifying and documenting with imaging ALL obverse dies (there's six of them as established by Denver mint records) used for 1914-D cents. His is a very busy guy with his day job, however, so it's not clear when the documenting by us as a team can begin. He has far more resources than I to accomplish the acquisition of coins and the imaging of same. We want to actually own the 1914-D's, at least one example from each of the six dies. We do not want accusations of copyright infringement of images to deal with since ultimately our work will be published somewhere (not necessarily here).
I have an example from one of the obverse dies used for 1914-D and my brother has another. So that's two, four to go. Very doable but not a particularly easy task to identify distinctly on 1914-D since those 'D's on 1914-D cents are all very close to each other. Whoever punched the D's at the Denver mint did so very carefully and obviously was a stickler for precision. Some 14-D's have a level D. Others tilt slightly.
The effort by my brother and I is to increase the knowledge of the collector community about 1914-D cents. We are going with PCGS for all necessary documentation of authenticity for our '14-D's acquired. I once had a 1914-D cent that I bought raw out of a shop in Denver many years ago. I wish I still had it. Most likely it would be a third example that we would own and it would be 3 down......wait a minute....I have large decent images of that piece somewhere in my files and I own those images! Maybe my brother and I won't have to buy four more 1914-D's. It could easily be 3 down, 3 to go. Hallellujah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIMOdVXAPJ0
Hallelujah!
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
It's the 4 in the date. It's been manipulated. compare it to a genuine 1914-D date.
Establishment as a fake by me was primarily done by inspecting the 'D'. It's way too to far right. The 1914 date, as a whole, does look pretty funky,though.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I have located the images I made of the '14-D that I purchased raw from a Denver coin shop many years ago. It has a level 'D' to my eyes. I might try to find a '14-D that looks like it and then purchase it. My 1914-D, a PCGS VF30 CAC has, unmistakably, a slightly tilted clockwise 'D.' I might send to PCGS for Trueview imaging. Will lose the green bean but oh well. My brother's 1914-D appears to have a slightly tilted counter-clockwise 'D'. 3 down, 3 to go. Wish us luck. I think we will use the image I made of the obverse of the raw '14-D I purchased many years ago but no longer have on the front cover of our self-published pamphlet.The image of the reverse side of the raw '14-D will be used on the back cover. The piece was XF grade or close to XF so. I'm thinking my brother and I will be on the same page for cover pictures on our pamphlet about 1914-D Lincolns. We may even get into discussion about 1909-S VDB's in our pamphlet. Too early to tell at this time. Got our hands full with '14-D at this time.
Okay. Last post here for now unless...Thanks to all who contributed here with images and thoughts about '14-D Lincolns. Credit will be given in our pamphlet to individuals (individuals who want credit, that is) who were most helpful here. Have a good rest of the day everyone!
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
"And I think my raw '14-D might be the 6th one..... I think I will send it to PCGS for authentication."
"How much would a photo cost me?"
"I'm getting it holdered and imaged."
Here's a Trueview of the 1914-D Lincoln I recently sent in for authentication...
"My brother owns the coin. The coin was submitted to PCGS by him."
.
.
Every one of your posts just confuses me further.
Every one of your posts seem to confuse you further.
.
.
Edited to add:
Not upset.... just confused.
Last post from me.... Bye!
The FACT that my PCGS authenticated and graded 1909-S VDB (cert #38363500) has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED bugs the h out of ^^^^, for the assertion was made in HIS thread (actually PCGS's thread, they are the owners of threads in here) that there is a "99% chance" that if 1909-S VDB has a deep valley 'N' in UNITED it is a fake. That MUST be the reason for this and other disruptions in MY threads (PCGS is the owner of MY threads here,too). I shall consult with Dr. Einstein to collect his thoughts about these developments. Meanwhile, I invite you all to listen carefully to the YouTube Hallelujah music video beautifully sung by Alison Crowe that I posted earlier. Leonard Cohen, songwriter, pure genius.
UPDATE: That was quick...
“Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The mediocre mind is incapable of understanding the man who refuses to bow blindly to conventional prejudices and chooses instead to express his opinions courageously and honestly.”
Albert Einstein
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Would love to see an image for your amazing PCGS '09-S VDB in the holder! No images available on the on-line cert as you know.
Would love to see an image for your amazing PCGS '09-S VDB in the holder! No images available on the on-line cert as you know.
Well, I posted those images you request in this forum but I felt the need to delete them since the suggestion was made in here that I photoshopped my coin into a genuine PCGS holder. Rest assured that the holder is genuine. That's all I can offer at this time. I know this might disappoint some here but I intend to preserve the provenance of my coin by keeping it in it's original holder as I bought it. No plan to resubmit for Gold Shield with Trueview imaging at this time. I would lose the original label and holder for one thing. Another thing is, Trueview images are owned by PCGS not me. So, I would have to ask permission from them to use those images of my own coin if I were to want to publish something outside of this forum about my "amazing PCGS '09-S VDB", as you say.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Sorry, but this reason/ excuse NOT to show the slabbed image makes no sense to me; "photoshopped" images are pretty easy to distinguish. I would like to see it as "preserved". You can message it to me if you are uncomfortable showing it here...
No need to apologize. I've taken a position on showing the image of the coin in the slab. The cert # is valid. The slab was determined to be authentic PCGS product by more than one viewer here. Nothing to be gained by me showing the images here again or by messaging it to anyone. Next viewings of the piece in its original slab will be done by Lincoln cent experts. These experts I speak of will have the coin, in it's slab, in hand. I will even bring an inspection lamp with me so that the expert is able to see the coin in it's full magnificence, to include it's glorious whispering V.D.B. This coin talks to me on the front and whispers to me when I turn the slab to look at the back. Will that happen for the inspector when I show my S VDB for inspection in hand? That is the question. It will be interesting to see. The first one who will view the coin in hand is the dealer who sold me the piece. And I will have my new Harsche with me ( the reference I was advised here to "throw away") ready to refer to.
Did you ever determine what edition of Harsche's Detecting Altered Coins you ordered for your library? You need the 5th Edition. I can't stress that enough.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
What's the going rate for expert opinion (other than PCGS, of course) about a coin in its TPG slab? Is it $30/hr? Or is it more? I don't expect "free." I've got $100 or so available to pay for expert opinions about my coin.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
You're bumping your own threads with nonsensical dribble? How egotistical.................
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
And you just bumped my thread again with your......opinion. I don't care where you're from. That's funny.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
So you will never see your brother again? How very sad...
I can have the coin in hand. All it will take is a phone call to him. I'm sensing some of the always tiresome tu quoque coming on.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Getting back to '14-D talk here is a fake '14 cent sans a 'D.' I bought this alteration for $2 as a learning teaching tool. Anyone with a Harsche 5th would never get burned by this alteration of a 1944 cent to a 1914, even with a passable 'D' added. The coin flunks the spacing test between the first 4 made into a '1' and the second 4'9'. Notice too that the created '1' is much longer than the first '1'. The second '1' should be the same length as the first '1'. Harsche discusses this alteration on page 16 of his book.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I just have to chuckle
; I am in groups of exceptional experts of coins and counterfeits, unquestionably the best in the world and NONE of them have EVER quoted anything from "Harsche". ..
I proof read everything I publish in the attempt to catch some of my more serious misspeak.
Okay. Now I'm going '14-D shopping.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Super cool - you've went from Einstien to Curt Shilling - can you please go to Jeremy Wade - I love to watch the catch and release of huge fish. And none of them have to do with coins - but yet you carry on -
EDIT : forgot - BUMP
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I quit shopping for '14-D's this evening.The acquisition of all six obverse die 'D' positions is going to take some time. Lots of sorry images of '14-D's for sale seen on ebay. Brother and I will get them all eventually but I may need to focus on buying by inspecting in hand. I did see an interesting error '14-D piece on ebay. Images are pretty good so I saved in my watch list. Price isn't terrible either.
I am in groups of exceptional experts of coins and counterfeits, unquestionably the best in the world and NONE of them have EVER quoted anything from "Harsche"
Would you rate these exceptional experts as on par with the experts at PCGS?
Bring 'em on over. I'd be interested in what they have to say. I trust you will be able to teach them a few things about 1909-S V.D.B.'s after you get your copy of Detecting Altered Coins, 5th edition. Please don't tell me your getting a Harsche edition before the 5th. I was hearing from a member here that they couldn't find Harsche discussion in their 3rd (or was it 4th?) edition about how 1909-S V.D.B's are counterfeited. I'm thinking Harsche didn't release his ground breaking work on 1909-S and 1909-S VDB cents until 1973 with the 5th edition.
Quiz for you and your experts: Which 1909-S obverse would tell you, almost without looking at the reverse of the coin, that it's a genuine 1909-S V.D.B. you have in your hands?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Oh God - I have a feeling> @mr1874 said:
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Super cool - you've went from Einstien to Curt Shilling
That's Einstein not Einstien. You might want to edit your post.
I have an amazing true story to tell about a coin I own that Einstein himself may have handled. It's a Prussian 3 Mark piece dated 1913. Gorgeous, lustrous, lightly circulated piece. This is the U.S. Coin Forum so I'm not comfortable telling my amazing story here about how I came into possession of said coin and why I think Einstein may have once handled it. Being met with derision and scorn here at every turn is not at all helpful.
Care to take a shot at the quiz question? Hint: The answer is in Harsche, 5th edition. A member... ah never mind I'd be giving you totoo much information.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
You can't be serious...
I apologize to everyone here if I have caused this to be prolonged- don't want to be part of the problem.
I hope the "ignore" function prevents me from even seeing anymore of this dribble...
Oh, I am serious. You can't answer the question yourself ask the expert. Darn I was so looking forward to talking Harsche with one of you guys. sigh
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
And it worked!!!
Tu Quoque
Tu quoque (/tjuːˈkwoʊkwi, tuːˈkwoʊkweɪ/; Latin Tū quoque, for "you also"), is a discussion technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behavior and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, therefore accusing hypocrisy. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack
Questions for the reader to ask oneself: Does it and should it really matter to the reader of this "discussion" if I get the coin in my hands again? Does it and should it really matter to the reader of this "discussion" that the customer for the coin is my brother?
Rather than locate the image of the coin that my brother had certified and Trueviewed and compare to the five images of '14-D obverse provided by a gracious member here to see if it has a different position from any of the five shown, readers are being subjected to a campaign to discredit me, to make me appear inconsistent, plant the seed that I don't know what I'm talking about and hope it takes root. It's malicious, been going on for some time now in this forum and I'm getting tired of it.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
PCGS please lock this thread from further comment.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
But before you do the lock (if that's what you do) I would like to share a story with readers here about a '14-D that I sold on ebay many years ago. I bought a '14-D Lincoln cent out of a long-established coin shop in Denver. The piece was very close to XF and I enjoyed owning it. But one day I decided to sell it on ebay. I listed it with pretty good images and was trying to sell it as a buy it now. Within short time I got a buy it now offer for my asking price making me wonder if I had asked enough. Buyer payed promptly using PayPal. Before I realized what was happening the buyer was offering the coin I just sold him on ebay. He jacked the grade up to AU and the image he used was a gross distortion of the image I made to sell the coin. Could barely tell it was a penny much less a '14-D. Well, to make a long story short, I erred by not cancelling the transaction and vowed if this ever happened to me again I would cancel the transaction. "I lost the coin. Can't find it anywhere, so I'm going to give you your money back." I would tell the ebay hustler. The '14-D I sold on ebay is the one that will be featured on the cover of myour pamphlet. Obverse on front cover, reverse on back. If the current owner of that coin were to see our pamphlet with the image of his or her coin on it, and contact me I would offer upwards of $700 for that '14-D provided that it's in the same original condition it was in when I owned it. If I couldn't buy the coin, the owner would at least get a free pamphlet from brother and I. After all, it's the thought that counts.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
On further reflection, I consider that this thread is too important to lock so I hereby retract my request to PCGS to have it locked. There is a lot more coming here in the way of images of '14-D's, known to be real ones as determined by our host here. Here is image of the original holder for the '14-D that I purchased for $1. I have indicated the PCGS cert # for it on the back. That # is 42698577. My brother owns the piece. I am designating it as "Spec. A" and will describe it further later. Original holder is a cardboard 1-1/2 x 1-1/2. PCGS Truview image of #42698577 directly below it:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Truview image of my 1914-D PCGS VF 30 CAC will be coming next.Once I obtain Truview image for it I will post it here. It will be designated "Spec B." Spec A1. Spec B Spec A1 cost me a little bit more than $1 to acquire.I can hardly wait to get it imaged. It is a beauty.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
This is a preview of Spec B. The piece will be sent to PCGS for Gold Shield slabbing. It will lose it's green bean but i'm okay with that.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I found a nice looking raw '14-D on ebay last evening. It has a level 'D.' Unfortunately, the seller's close up picture of the date and mintmark revealed that the second '1' in the date is shaped like a baseball bat so I'm going to pass on buying it.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
If you just send it in for Reholdering you can get the CAC re-stickered for $5.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
If you just send it in for Reholdering you can get the CAC re-stickered for $5.
That's good to know. Thanks for this information. For $5 to keep the green bean, why not?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Decisions, decisions.............
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I've fallen into a numbering trap with the various dies used. That's why I've gone with letters for '14-D's that my brother and I will be acquiring. We have 2 down, 4 to go. Of course, we could end up with some duplicate 14-D die varieties accidentally. Trying to find the '14-D's of interest is going to be trickier online than it will be at shows. There seems to be only one of the six dies with cw tilting 'D', three of the six dies that have no tilt of the 'D', and two dies of the six with ccw tilting 'D'.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Here ya go @mr1874 - I had this in my saved archives from previous forums...........I don't know if the numbering on the MM positions are correct.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
This is real cool! Thanks
Pete
Our (brother and I) work with '14-D die varieties will be with coins we buy. So, unless we buy a duplicate or two by mistake, we'll be the proud owners of just six '14-D's, all six obverse die varieties of 1914-D cent. I've decided to make this thread Part 1. First two of our '14-D's are featured here. Part 2 will feature the next two. Part 3 will feature the last two. This project is going to take some time so we urge everyone to be patient.
The '14-D pamphlet will be in the style of Detecting Altered Coins by Harsche. Too early for advance orders at this writing but we intend to publish plenty of them to meet the demand by eager collectors, dealers, institutions of learning, etc.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Equipment needed will be a quality microscope with camera so that we can make our own closeup images of 1914-D mintmarks. This is not a get rich quick scheme by any means but it will be a lot of fun for us.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Letter codes for the varieties might be better Spec A and Spec A1 for the two '14-D's in this thread. Spec B and Spec B1 for the next two in the Part 2 thread. Finally, Spec C and Spec C1 for the last two '14-D's in the Part 3 thread. Not sure that we would want to go with the A, A1,B,B1,C, and C1 designations for the die varieties as seen in the pamphlet.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I know I said it was my last post but I have some information that may help you.
I'm not sure why I feel the need to help after I tried very hard to help you and it backfired in my face.
I don't appreciate you trashing my thread with your imagination and antics when I was being very patient and helpful.
I'm not sure why you are soo fixated on old reference material when better up to date material is at your fingertips.
It would have taken you less time to find this information than it took you to make the last 5 posts talking about it.
Your imagination is running wild to the point you are making yourself look bad and making things harder than they need to be.
Rather than making another post you should go back and read your posts over the last 25 days.
If you keep this up you will be on more "ignore" lists here than emerald.
You suggested I was "planting seeds" I have not been planting seeds.
You have been the one planting seeds and I have been watering them for you.
You have planted an 80 acre orchard and I just can't keep up with the watering.
I hope this information doesn't cause you to plant more seeds.
You have been a member here a long time and I don't remember seeing this behavior in the past.
I have no way of knowing if this behavior is because of something going on in your life, if so I hope you get it worked out.
For some reason I would hate to see you go to all the time, effort and money it would take to do a reasonable job with your project. I'm sure you realize that to do a good job you will want to acquire better grade coins for your photos or the mint marks may not show as well with a little PMD. I would also hate to see you spend 5 months or 5 days on something you can find in 5 minutes. Someone else has already done this and they did a good job, it would be hard to improve on it. If someone else can find this information in 5 minutes on the web for free how are you going to market to them? If you get enjoyment from this type of research and it's all part of the hobby for you then you should move forward with your project.
I found this on the web, here are the 6 mint marks for the 1914 D.
Looks like they did a good job getting the photo size & height the same and used very good coins.
I added the lines to the second photo to see if it helped line them up.
.
.
Shape of the D is also incorrect - too short/square. Is taller on the genuines.
So 3 strikes against the top one:
1. Shape of D
2. mm position too far right
3. Shape of 4
I will soon make simple edits to my posts in this thread regarding the coding system that brother and I are using for the '14-D project we are working on. Spec stands for "specimen." "Spec B" is now "Spec A1." "Spec A" remains "Spec A."
"cw" stands for "clockwise." "ccw" stands for "counterclockwise." Reference for "tilts" is the relationship of the 'D' mintmark to the 1914 date.
Spec A- PCGS cert #42698577 (in a generation 6.15 holder). This piece has a definite ccw tilt of the 'D' mintmark.
Spec A1- current PCGS cert #84088691 (in a generation 6.1 holder). This piece has a definite cw tilt of the 'D' mintmark.
Spec A1 will be reholdered into a PCGS generation 6.15 holder. Once this is accomplished and I post the Trueview image here of Spec A1, this thread will be considered by me as being completed.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
mr1874 original post deleted
BREAKING NEWS: I located and purchased a 6th edition of Harsche entitled How To Detect Altered Coins. Copyright date is 1978. There very well could be "new" information in this publication which appears to be an update from Harsche's 5th edition, Detecting Altered Coins (1973). Cost me a pretty penny. Seems to be very scarce.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I'm thinking our pamphlet (which will be in the style of Harsche) will cover not just '14-D Lincoln cents. It will also contain information about 1909-S V.D.B. and 1931-S. My PCGS authenticated and graded 1909-S V.D.B. from Harsche die for 1909-S without V.D.B. #6 (1909-S V.D.B. is not supposed to exist using this die) will be featured with slab images, closeup images of the date, mintmark,V.D.B., etc. to add value to our pamphlet. Exciting stuff lies ahead. Stay tuned.
8 February 2022 Update: Our 1909-S V.D.B. has been determined to be a masterful (scary good) counterfeit that will ultimately be in possession of PCGS. Needless to say, the counterfeit piece will not be featured in our 1914-D pamphlet no matter when that pamphlet might be published. Look in "Show Us Your Lucky Penny" thread for more information about the counterfeit SVDB and how it was determined to be counterfeit without sending to PCGS for review of its authenticity.
8 February 2022 address to this comment seen a few posts above:
For some reason I would hate to see you go to all the time, effort and money it would take to do a reasonable job with your project. I'm sure you realize that to do a good job you will want to acquire better grade coins for your photos or the mint marks may not show as well with a little PMD. I would also hate to see you spend 5 months or 5 days on something you can find in 5 minutes. Someone else has already done this and they did a good job, it would be hard to improve on it. If someone else can find this information in 5 minutes on the web for free how are you going to market to them? If you get enjoyment from this type of research and it's all part of the hobby for you then you should move forward with your project.
If this '14-D project does move forward at a later time, it is of no concern to brother and I about our efforts being unsuccessful in improving on work done before us. On the contrary, we see that a lot of improvement could be made in learning more about '14-D obverse varieties. Furthermore, we believe the learning improvement can be done with close-up precision imaging of mintmark from circulated examples of '14-D's from all of the various obverse dies used. As long as the mintmark 'D' is undamaged on examples we purchase, we see no problem identifying mintmark positions comparing one example to the other using precision imaging. The real challenge for us is distinguishing the "level 'D's" one from the other.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Henway comment noted.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Lots of '14-D's available in Denver so I might be able to buy an example or two needed for the project at a show there. I'm not scared to buy raw. I know enough about the obverse die varieties of '14-D to not get burned. I think I'll visit a dealer's shop that I once frequented. He is very knowledgeable about Lincoln cents. I hope he still has his shop but he could be "retired", whatever that means.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
I had previously questioned the number of '14-D coins struck as shown on the mint record because the number there didn't match with my Redbook mintage number for '14-D. CaptHenway set me straight on that one. Some of the struck coins are rejected for one reason or another and subsequently scrapped. Here's another question and I'm thinking one of the experts here can answer it. If the mint record shows six obverse dies used why are there only four die identifying numbers indicated on the record?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
And 7 reverse dies.
Maybe there is a prior page with the other die numbers?