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What a brutal hit
LandrysFedora
Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
https://youtu.be/8_XKh_80z9UNot sure if this link works, haven't posted a video on here yet. This may be one of the nastiest shots I've seen in a hockey game. From tonights Canadiens vs Jets game.
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This one was pretty scary for wild fans. Reaves is a total cementhead.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wg68Y26-OP4
@LandrysFedora I watched that live. It was brutal. You normally don't see stars do that
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Schiefele was running around all night. You know it's a bad hit when the refs actually call a charge. Almost never happens anymore unless it's a bad hit.
Charging:
Charging is the action where a player takes more than two strides or travels an excessive distance to accelerate through a body check for the purpose of punishing the opponent. This includes skating or leaving one's feet (jumping) into the opponent to deliver a check, accelerating through a check for the purpose of punishing the opponent, or skating a great distance for the purpose of delivering a check with excessive force.
Zero effort to play the puck and he got suspended 4 games. Brilliant move.
and if you're wondering why this stuff still happens in today's game:
Jets coach Paul Maurice called Schiefele's hit on Evans "clean" and said it was a heavy hit. Later added: "It was a hell of a hit."
it's always Canadian Junior alumni meatheads.
Yes clearly charging. I was/am confused at any thoughts that the hit was legal.
Savage hit. hopefully that kid is ok
It that hit happened against the Jets Maurice would be calling on The Royal Canadian Mounted Police to investigate
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That type of physical play is still widely accepted in Canada. It’s in the culture. It’s just the way many of the dads from the 70s have passed on to their boys.
Go to Toronto sun.com and read Ken Drydens article blasting the hit. Then read the comments that call Dryden an idiot.
They see hockey like we see football. If a guy gets laid out in football some here still like it. Not as much as in Canada with hockey though. A big part of their fans like this and the fighting as well.
Schiefele absolutely deserves his suspension, and if it costs the Jets a chance a shot at the semi-finals then it's on him and Maurice, too. The ESPN video shows the announcers immediately condemning the hit, so I don't think it is generally considered OK.
Still, people need to realize that this is just sports. espn.com/video/clip?id=31566918 Since Schiefele neglected to express, however insincerely, regret for injuring Evans I hope that his reputation as a clean player is completely ruined, but there is absolutely no excuse for attacking the man's family.
Sure. And a substantial (3%, 30%, no idea) number of NASCAR fans go because they may see someone die. Are people here still as excited if a football player is laid out after a dirty hit? I mean we like it when players play hard, but not so much when they play dirty. In baseball, are pitchers who throw behind batters admired?
Fighting is different.
yep, and most coaches would at least semi-defend their own player to an extent. Peter Laviolette certainly lost a lot of respect around the game with his defending Tom Wilson's act this year (in addition to the entire Capitals organization enabling his act for 5 years).
But all Maurice had to do was say something like - look, it's an unfortunate hit made in a split second's decision...and Mark isn't a dirty player, he hasn't been fined or suspended previously etc etc - and that would be it. But to defend it and champion the hit in addition to himself all the morons who've stated that he was trying to "prevent a goal" when he clearly wasn't since he could've stick-checked the puck off of Evans to prevent that goal way easier than issuing a body check, he just comes off as another enabling dolt.
it's not widely accepted except for the Don Cherry-disciples and people who are over 45 and can't evolve past the 60's, 70's and 80's. Like Paul Maurice, Brian Burke, and even GMs/former GMs like Peter Chiarelli who can't let that era go. When that Tom Wilson stuff went down a few weeks ago there were plenty of Canadians who wanted him to get a perma-ban, and plenty of Canadian based hockey writers who wanted to see him get 20+ games to half a season. They're not doing themselves any favors with it either as hockey participation is down in Canada, and soccer and basketball participation is up.
The real problem is the Canadian Junior leagues (for a variety of reasons, the least of which is the free labor/child exploitation of said league). And the worst of it is they're being taught/trained by the Patrick Roys and Dale Hunters and various other dumb old dinosaurs who also can't let their era go. Wilson, Reaves, Marchand, Lucic, Kassian (and his coke addiction) etc - all of the dirtiest players of this era are Canadian Junior players. That's not a coincidence.
Not going to go into a ton of detail, and this is 15 years ago now so some stuff has changed up there (you get suspended for 2 games after your 10th fighting major in the Ontario league now), the Quebec league has cracked down a bit too, but my high school coach took a job out of college and a couple years playing in Switzerland with an OHL team as the video coach. This is the early aughts...and these junior kids are as young as 16 years old...sometimes 15 if you get an exemption like Crosby and MacKinnon.
So here was their schedule. 6 am practice before "school" started at 7:30. After lunch another practice which also included the head coach blowing a whistle and all the players were to square off and fight (in practice...and there's 16 year old kids out there). Then another practice after "school". So after he saw this going on he quit after 2 weeks and went back to coaching my high school team until getting a D1 college job. That wasn't that long ago, but I suspect at least the fighting in practice thing on the coach's demand is banned now. But that stuff is how these hits and the enabling of them happens. You think US college kids are exploited, they have nothing on these Junior hockey kids (these junior kids can also have their "rights" traded to other teams -- at 16 years old). And they aren't living at home with mum & dad. They're living in the basements of strangers or in the coach's spare bedroom.
It’s not widely accepted except for the Don Cherry disciples is all you had to say.
The Cherry disciples would easily win a popularity contest against the Ron McLean disciples in Canada.
They are the silent majority in Canada. They don’t say it to the press, but they’ll say it at home and in the bars.
Heck, Taylor Hall got into his first fight last night in 10 years. That kid never fights. You know why he did ? Because of the culture he was raised in. Hitting and fighting is a huge part of Canada’s game. None of the silent majority will say it on tv, but a lot of them have no problem with that hit, and they agree with Maurice.
but you're still talking about people over 50 years old. They're not the majority. And really, it doesn't matter what some middle aged dolt in a bar thinks, it's what the players today think and how they've evolved past most of it in a very short amount of time. We're talking about guys like Reaves and Lucic and a small handful of current players being complete dopes, but in reality their act is pretty neutered even compared to guys from just 5 years ago. The Matt Cookes, Dan Carcillo types. All of those types of truly dirty players are gone except for Tom Wilson and Nazem Kadri who would also be gone if they weren't top 6 players.
But Hall didn't get into a fight for the first time in 10 years because of the culture. He got pummeled in said fight because he was constantly losing board battles and twice got tangled up with Scott Mayfield during the first period of Game 4, and the sequence escalated after Hall finished a decently-hard check which then led to Mayfield flinging Hall to the ice while using his stick for additional leverage - and Hall got bunged up about it - thus born of frustration.
That's just a guy losing his cool and then losing a fight he had no chance of winning, thus being an idiot for even putting himself in a position to get injured. just as Kadri and Schiefele put themselves into a position to get suspended. That's only partially because of their culture of "hitting". It's moreso a lack of IQ points and an inability to control your emotion which is probably what happens when your education essentially ends in the 8th grade.
by the by,
2019-2020 - 195 fights total
2010-2011 - 734 fights total
56% of games 10 years ago had at least one fight. This season it was 16%. The culture has changed a lot in a very short amount of time among active players and GMs who were able to waive goodbye to what they grew up on.
just wow.
that could be one of the most brutal hits ive seen outta all sports.
boxing, football, plays at the plate, etc.
Schieffle is not a dirty player. He’s a smart, hard working hockey player.
If you think his hit was because he’s a stupid player, then you’re making a fool of yourself honestly.
He and Blake Wheeler play some of the hardest, good skating hockey for the price of admission.
He is not a dirty player. He has a high hockey IQ that he demonstrates game in and game out.
He felt he made the right play, as did his coach and lots of other Canadians. It’s the way they see it.
To call him stupid only makes yourself look stupid. He’s a very good NHL player and you’re not.
But you’re smarter than him ? Lol.
He knew what he was doing. It’s what’s taught up there. When a guy has the puck, separate him with either the stick or the body.
Yes it was charging. It was a penalty, but one he felt was worth taking to try to prevent a goal. The kid is not dirty. Too bad you’re not as smart a hockey player he is, or you’d be making millions instead of typing on a message board.
It was a 200 foot charge. You don't see that everyday thank God. I watched it live and it seemed even more brutal in context if that's possible
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I love Schieffle. He is not a dirty player. That was a dirty play. It was born out of frustration. Been there done that.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If he was actually trying to make the right play, he would have tried to play the puck and actually prevent the goal. He never had any intention of doing that which is how he came to hit a guy after the play was over instead of actually preventing the goal. It's clearly seen in this pic, his stick is off to the side and he's not looking at all to actually make a play:
if you're replying to me you should go back and reread what I wrote because you're off on pretty much everything. I said Hall's decision to fight was dumb for a variety of reasons, the least of which is the risk of injury of either getting brained, which he probably would have if he didn't turtle, or breaking his hand punching a helmet. You can understand that right? What is the value of losing one of your top 4 offensive players for the rest of the series/season vs said player punching someone, maybe once, if he's lucky? A very low payoff, is the correct answer.
So if you don't think that's a dumb play, well, sorry, it is. Just as Kadri's hit was dumb, just as Schiefele's 175 foot charge was dumb. There's no upside in any of those plays, and none of them were split second decisions. They were all predatory hits with tens to hundreds of feet being travelled which means it's going to be suspension worthy, thus dumb plays.
Regarding Schiefele, that hit was only the worst of his act that night. You should go back and watch Game 1. He was running around all night, and if you don't know what running around means in hockey vernacular, it means he was leaving his checking assignments to hunt hits and/or manufacture scrums because the Jets were getting outplayed in every aspect of the game. If that's your thing, great, I'm neither anti hitting or even anti legit fighting, but just know it doesn't do anything. There is zero statistical evidence that fighting or hit counts lead to any additional scoring or winning games. If you're hit count is high, chances are you don't have the puck which means you're losing the possession game, which means you aren't winning enough puck/board battles, and you aren't scoring. There are no messages being sent, and no one on Montreal is sweating Mark Schiefele. Weber, Edmundson, or Josh Anderson would all clock him in a fight.
Montreal is moving on! Sweep!
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
He's obviously not a dirty player. He got more PIM on that one play than he did the whole rest of the season, which includes his roughing penalty eight minutes earlier. It was a dirty play, undoubtedly made from frustration, and it likely cost his team any chance it had of winning the Stanley Cup and him any chance to play until the second game of next year. I can live with that. More importantly, I hope the penalty was severe enough to keep the Canadiens from retaliating next time they play.
If that's your thing, great, I'm neither anti hitting or even anti legit fighting, but just know it doesn't do anything. There is zero statistical evidence that fighting or hit counts lead to any additional scoring or winning games. If you're hit count is high, chances are you don't have the puck which means you're losing the possession game, which means you aren't winning enough puck/board battles, and you aren't scoring. There are no messages being sent, and no one on Montreal is sweating Mark Schiefele. Weber, Edmundson, or Josh Anderson would all clock him in a fight.
Have I told you lately that I love you?
So very few people understand hockey. When the Wild were winning and getting "out shot" people were all bitching about it, then they promptly lost a game where they had more shots on goal.
Similarly, many were bitching about Kaprizov's "bad" playoff performance. For the most part, he was the best player on the ice imo. Tried to do too much on several occasions, but that's understandable.
Have you watched him much? What do you think?
Hey Joe
yeah I mean, you're not going to win every game you outshoot your opponent in, or have the greater balance of possession in, but it certainly helps. You're going to win more times than not. Depends on where the shots are coming from too. Shots from the perimeter or the point are obviously going to matter less when what...roughly 81-82% of all goals scored this year were from the slot. Generally just look at the "high danger" shots and shots created off of the rush. Those are the shots that lead to goals. But even just at a basic level, look at the Vegas/Avs series. Vegas was drubbed in the first game, it was a roughly even Game 2, but the last 3 Vegas has nearly double the shots that the Avs do and they've won all 3 of those games.
hard not to like Kirill or could want much more out of him this season. Yes he's not a rookie rookie, but still, there is a major adjustment, especially in the playoffs, and especially in the playoffs when you're playing a defensive- suffocating team like Vegas. Again, look at what Vegas is doing to the Avs right now. They are choking the life out of the top offensive team in the league, including the MacKinnon line Yes the Avs went ya-ya time in Game 1, and in the following 3 games, he has 1 assist and is getting his ears pinned back in every area - possession, at the dot etc. And all of those Avs players have playoff experience, Kirill didn't. So if nothing else, if you take away that first game, Kirill did a better job creating chances than MacKinnon or Rantanen has done since said Game 1. That's not nothing. Nor is it nothing that the Wild nearly pulled that series out.
His possession% did drop over 10% in the playoffs (47.5% playoffs vs an excellent 58.3% regular season), but some of that is always team and line-mate dependent, and...well, your Wild's first line center is VIctor Rask. I probably don't need to inform you that Victor Rask kind of sucks. A first line center with 23 points and sub-50% possession isn't going to cut it. Zuccarello having a pretty nice bounce-back year really helped cover that mess up. He and Kirill really played well together on that line.
But what I was just as impressed with, if not even a bit moreso, this year was Ericksson-Ek. I honestly believe he should have been nominated for the Selke, and if he was from the Toronto suburbs instead of Sweden, he probably would have been. 19 goals in 56 games - very good. Only 11 assists but look who he's usually playing with - a 4th liner like Foligno and Greenway. But that was a really great season. I was honestly anticipating him going the Victor Rask route (former 5th overall pick who can't cut it in the top 6), or at best be a poor man's Mikko Koivu, but maybe with better linemates he could really be a diet-Kopitar.
I couldn't agree more with your assessments!
I have been waiting since day one for the Wild to find a superstar (Gaborik was close, but not quite) and I broke down and paid for a Sports package (UZZUTV very affordable) and watched every Wild game this year.
Barring injury, it looks to me like Kirill is that guy. One of the things the Wild needs to "fix" is getting him a center (Marco Rossi?) who can put the puck in the net. Kaprizov could/should have had another 10-20 assists last year, the guy can really pass! Rask is not a finisher. Zuccarello has good chemistry with Kaprizov, but needs to learn how/when to make his line changes better.
Hartman could/should have had a few more goals in the playoffs as well. He's better than Rask, but I was surprised the Wild signed him to a pretty big contract. Good centers seem to be hard to find.
Boldy looks promising as well at least he has some size. The Wild are getting smaller and could be getting TOO small. Personally, I would rather see smaller highly skilled guys than all these 6'4" OK hockey players.
Ek has always been a "nice" player, this year he has become more assertive offensively. Alex Tuch would look good in this lineup.
Any thoughts on Filip Lindberg? Looks like the Wild might lose him. I also think the Wild NEED to keep Talbot protected. He looked better in goal than the Wild have had for years. I was never a big Dubnyk fan.
Always appreciate your thoughts on the best sport to watch and play!
Minnesota North Stars and Wild and the Buffalo Sabres are the only two pre-1975 expansion clubs to never win the cup.
I wonder why that is. They’ve come close.
haven't seen enough of Lindberg to make any sort of judgment, but I don't think the Wild even need a 1st line center to score goals, they just need someone to tilt the ice in their favor more. Like an Anthony CIrelli type. I think they used Rask on that line in hopes that he would just be the guy who could do the digging in the corners and win some puck battles, and then help distribute some scoring down to the other lines so they could roll 3 lines who can potentially score, but he's just not good enough for that 1st line assignment, and he definitely shouldn't be manning the second unit PP which he also did for the majority of the season. But that speaks to the lack of center depth on that team. If Rask is your third line center, then that's fine. He can't be in the top 6 and hope to win anything, though.
Kopitar isn't what he was 4 years ago, but he's still very good. If only they drafted him instead of Benoit Pouliot they'd have Kopitar/Eriksson Ek/Rask/Bonino down the middle. That could work. They do need probably one more winger who can finish too, but if your top six was Kopitar/Eriksson-Ek/Zuccarello/Fiala/a free agent left winger, and then one of the young guys, that would be fine.
Hartman isn't really a center, he fits better as your 3rd line RW. The Blackhawks never used him at center, even when they had center-depth issues themselves a few years ago...and for a good reason. 45% possession as a center, terrible at the dot (41.2%), and tends to take bad penalties. He's one of those guys who could be an excellent checking line winger who could score 30 points a season if he concentrated on locking people down and tilting the ice. Like Matt Cooke could have done if he wasn't such an idiot.
Not sold on Talbot, personally. I think he's a good platoon goalie. If your starting goalie was Varlamov, who is good to great at times, but also erratic and needs to be sat for a few games, then Talbot would be a very good #2 who could play more games (25-30ish starts) than your average backup goalie. I think he is what he is, there isn't any more upside with him. So hopefully Kahkonen is going to be the guy going forward.
Talbot looked superb....................maybe because we haven't had a good goalie for such a long time.
Kahkonen looked good for a while and then got obliterated in two consecutive games. In those games there were some unstoppable shots, but it was scary.
Hopefully Boldy is good and Rossi can win face offs. The Wild were pretty bad at that except for Bonino. Bonino didn't seem to do much offensively.
Speaking of Matt Cooke, I will never forget his cheap hit on MacKinnon. I felt ashamed of my team that day. I don't know what happened with Pouliot, but he was one of the top picks that never even made it to the pros, wasn't he?
Talbot did look really good at times this year, particularly in the second half and into the playoffs, but for his career, his GAA & SV% is right at league average. He has a career .912, and league average is .910. This season he was at .915 which is pretty good, but he was also playing behind a pretty good defensive team. Those things tend to fluctuate year to year unless you have one of those 5-6 year stretches like the Hawks or Kings had this past decade where you have coaching and system stability and then those numbers can normalize for a while.
Not going to pretend I've seen a ton of Boldy, but from what I have seen live (I've seen him live about 4 times when BC played Notre Dame), and at the Junior tourneys on TV, but I would expect him to be somewhere in the Ryan Kesler (minus the diving) to Brandon Dubinsky (at his peak when he was scoring 50+ points a season and making life miserable for Crosby defensively) mold. He plays in that American wolverine hounding relentless style which will probably also mean he'll be worn down and retired by the time he's 30.
The ideal scenario would be that he becomes the modern day Doug Weight. Don't know if you remember Doug Weight but in his prime he was great. Ask Canada's 1996 World Cup of Hockey team. The NHL Network runs those games during the offseason sometimes, so lock it in if you ever see them running. Every time Weight pasted someone on the boards, he'd turn around and then (gloved) punch them in the face too (you know because that's what Canada always tried to do in those games, bullying teams), then Keith Tkachuk trucked Gretzky and Doug Weight at 5'11 and 185 lbs just human bowling-balled everyone. But you just never know how the scoring will come with young players. Scoring in college or the juniors just isn't the same. You don't know if they're willing to hang around the slot, or if they take a Chara crosscheck to the back of the head and suffer a concussion and then come back and drift out towards the perimeter. If they can get their release a little quicker etc.
Pouliot played 12 years in the NHL, over 600 games.
Decent career. Bust as a top 5 pick
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
ok career. .3 pts per game and league average possession metrics is generally suboptimal for the 4th overall pick....especially when driving possession was supposed to be your top skill. He was absolutely terrible in Minny, routinely buried (-6.7 RC), became decent with the Habs and Bruins but his last season in EDM he couldn't even get McDavid to drag him to a 10 goal season and McDavid drug a useless Zack Kassian to a 15 goal season.
Should have looked him up. Certainly a disappointment here.
nah, it's better to completely scrub your mind of anything related to Benoit Pouliot. There's nothing positive for a Wild fan there.
but at least there's this
that's NHL ready half-wall work right there (I'm talking about the Boldy setup, not the Gabriel Dumont goal).
Just curious: how do you link the North Stars to the Wild?
North Stars won it after they moved to Dallas.
Both teams play in Minnesota.
Do hockey fans in Minnesota root for Dallas or the Wild ?
By this logic we need to add the Atlanta Flames/Thrashers to your list.
So is your logic that the Minnesota North Stars turn their back on their fans, get up and leave, like a divorce, and the Minnesota hockey fans are supposed to be loyal to the team that left them, or should they embrace the new team, or wife, that is going to come to them and work their heart out for them ?
Simple question. Please answer.
Should Minnesota hockey fans be loyal to the Wild or the Dallas Stars ?
Please explain your logic how a team like the Baltimore Colts can divorce their city and still be associated with that city ?
If a woman gets a divorce and remarries, does she keep the last name of her first husband or second husband ?
She now belongs to the second husband. The first husband brings in a new one (if he’s crazy enough to), and cares for her, not the one who left him.
North Stars didn’t win anything.
The Dallas Stars did. It was not won in Minnesota, nor did a team named the North Stars win it.
Minnesota has never had a parade to celebrate a Cup. The North Stars left Minnesota and their fans.
Dallas won a Stanley Cup. Minnesota never.
Minnesota hockey fans can be loyal to whoever they want. Every time I go to a hockey game in Boston I see sweaters from a dozen teams.
All I'm saying is that you can't say that Minnesota never won a Cup without making the same claim for Atlanta. Your original statement is wrong if it makes any sense at all. I don't think it does. And if you come to a game in Boston and wear a Wild sweater you likely won't be alone.
It’s all very simple to me. No professional hockey team in the state of Minnesota has ever won the Stanley Cup. Minnesota has never had a Stanley Cup parade.
Very few people know the reason for the North Stars move to Dallas.
People here blamed Norm Green and hated him for moving the team, as did I. I was at the final home game at Met Center and was as loud as anyone screaming "Norm Green SUCKS!"
A couple of years ago, former general manager and coach of the North Stars, Lou Nanne was making his weekly appearance on the local sports talk radio station when the subject came up.
Nanne got pretty worked up about it, saying the Metropolitan Sports Commission tried to force Green to move the team to the Target Center in downtown Minneapolis, as they had done to George and Gordon Gund, the previous owners.
The Gund brothers, had in fact, sent Lou Nanne to negotiate with the Timberwolves' owners to play at Target Center, but they couldn’t come to an agreement over advertising. Without advertising revenue, moving downtown wouldn’t have improved the situation any more than staying at Met Center. Without the improvements at Met Center, the North Stars would not have been able to stay afloat financially.
Green owned the adjoining land surrounding the Metropolitan Sports Center and had in fact put several million dollars into Met Center because Bill Lester and the Metropolitan Sports Commission refused, and Norm wanted to build a shopping center next to it. He was NOT interested in moving the team and was looking for ways to make some profits on his investment.
The Met council refused to approve any of Green's ideas, he got fed up with their B.S. and moved the team.
He never once revealed this to the media.
To Mr. Norman Greene: I apologize for saying you sucked.