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Greatest O mint Morgan Dollar?

What is the greatest O mint Morgan dollar to own ? And for that matter , which is the greatest for each mint mark , P D O S CC? I see registry sets for mint marks and highest graded , but those are all common dates.

Comments

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’ll take the obvious answer and go with the 1886-O in 67DMPL.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:
    2021-O

    No such animal.

    thefinn
  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd love a 1878-O Morgan. I don't think any O-mint dollars are scarce now in any grade. The 1903-O was the king of circulation strike Morgans until 1962.

    thefinn
  • AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1895-O Morgan in Mint State

    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:

    @jmlanzaf said:
    2021-O

    No such animal.

    Will be soon

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:
    I'd love a 1878-O Morgan. I don't think any O-mint dollars are scarce now in any grade. The 1903-O was the king of circulation strike Morgans until 1962.

    And you think there's no 2021?

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2021 2:07PM

    @thefinn said:
    I'd love a 1878-O Morgan. I don't think any O-mint dollars are scarce now in any grade. The 1903-O was the king of circulation strike Morgans until 1962.

    I can’t fathom such an all encompassing conclusion. Never mind that it’s highly inaccurate. Check these dates in grades 65 and higher: 86-O, 93-O, 94-O, 95-O, 96-O, 97-O - they’re beyond “scarce”.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,152 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Due to mintage and value, I would say 1895 O followed by the 1893 O in most grade states.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2021 2:50PM

    From your post count, I see you haven't been around very long. We all hope you'll catch on quickly. ;)

    1886-O's are relative common compared to 1893-O's. I'd go with the Amon Carter coin in MS66DMPL. Wasn't there an 1895-O in 66 in a Sotheby's sale late last year? Last three years I've fallen behind.
    Eliasberg 91-CC $1 MS68PL
    Vermeule 1893-S MS67 or Tkacz-Walanka-David Hall---Jack lee 1896-S in MS69.
    1894-P in MS66 (from a Stacks sale bought raw by Danny R?) I'd check the grade out.
    D-mint? That's a good Jeopardy question. :#

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:
    From your post count, I see you haven't been around very long. We all hope you'll catch on quickly.

    1886-O's are relative common compared to 1893-O's. I'd go with the Amon Carter coin in MS66DMPL. Wasn't there an 1895-O in 66 in a Sotheby's sale late last year? Last three years I've fallen behind.
    Eliasberg 91-CC $1 MS68PL
    Vermeule 1893-S MS67 or Tkacz-Walanka-David Hall---Jack lee 1896-S in MS69.
    1894-P in MS66 (from a Stacks sale bought raw by Danny R?) I'd check the grade out.
    D-mint? That's a good Jeopardy question. :#

    I think I was working for David when he acquired the 96-S and that it was accompanied by an amazing 84-S. Does the latter ring a bell?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2021 2:52PM

    Yup. I knew Tom Tkacz before he bought the pair from Art Leister (I should have included him in the provenance). Tom's store was only a few miles away from me. The 1884-S is now in a 67 holder and was in either Stacks' Larry Miller or the Sotheby's group. Actually, I think both were in "Jack Lee 1" and "Jack Lee 2"

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ColonelJessup said:
    Yup. I knew Tom Tkacz before he bought the pair from Art Leister (I should have included him in the provenance). Tom's store was only a few miles away from me. The 1884-S is now in a 67 holder and was in either Stacks' Larry Miller or the Sotheby's group. Actually, I think both were in "Jack Lee 1" and "Jack Lee 2"

    Rick, I know you can be tough on occasion, but that 84-S is a 68.😉

    Dwight, what would your answer be for the greatest O-mint?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    Yup. I knew Tom Tkacz before he bought the pair from Art Leister (I should have included him in the provenance). Tom's store was only a few miles away from me. The 1884-S is now in a 67 holder and was in either Stacks' Larry Miller or the Sotheby's group. Actually, I think both were in "Jack Lee 1" and "Jack Lee 2"

    Rick, I know you can be tough on occasion, but that 84-S is a 68.😉

    Dwight, what would your answer be for the greatest O-mint?

    Since my exaltedness is surpassed only by my modesty, I cannot deny I made a mistake this time :'(

    Yet still not as great as the 93-S in 67 he mutters peevishly.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    From your post count, I see you haven't been around very long. We all hope you'll catch on quickly.

    1886-O's are relative common compared to 1893-O's. I'd go with the Amon Carter coin in MS66DMPL. Wasn't there an 1895-O in 66 in a Sotheby's sale late last year? Last three years I've fallen behind.
    Eliasberg 91-CC $1 MS68PL
    Vermeule 1893-S MS67 or Tkacz-Walanka-David Hall---Jack lee 1896-S in MS69.
    1894-P in MS66 (from a Stacks sale bought raw by Danny R?) I'd check the grade out.
    D-mint? That's a good Jeopardy question. :#

    I think I was working for David when he acquired the 96-S and that it was accompanied by an amazing 84-S. Does the latter ring a bell?

    Knew I recalled reading about those on someone's Greysheet many years ago. Just can't believe that was way back in 1983.

    Not the kind of coins I got to see or handle, but was always fascinated reading about the high powered stuff.

    Found a link to the article

    "1884-S and 1896-S Morgans sell for $100,000!"

    "...1884-S grades a conservative MS-67+ ... 1896-S enjoys general agreement at MS-70..."

    Sounded like insane grades and prices at the time. Fairly accurate assessments back in those raw days. The two brought a total over $1.4 Million at the Larry H. Miller Collection auction last November.

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 29, 2021 5:41PM

    @WinLoseWin said:

    @MFeld said:

    @ColonelJessup said:
    From your post count, I see you haven't been around very long. We all hope you'll catch on quickly.

    1886-O's are relative common compared to 1893-O's. I'd go with the Amon Carter coin in MS66DMPL. Wasn't there an 1895-O in 66 in a Sotheby's sale late last year? Last three years I've fallen behind.
    Eliasberg 91-CC $1 MS68PL
    Vermeule 1893-S MS67 or Tkacz-Walanka-David Hall---Jack lee 1896-S in MS69.
    1894-P in MS66 (from a Stacks sale bought raw by Danny R?) I'd check the grade out.
    D-mint? That's a good Jeopardy question. :#

    I think I was working for David when he acquired the 96-S and that it was accompanied by an amazing 84-S. Does the latter ring a bell?

    Knew I recalled reading about those on someone's Greysheet many years ago. Just can't believe that was way back in 1983.

    Not the kind of coins I got to see or handle, but was always fascinated reading about the high powered stuff.

    Found a link to the article

    "1884-S and 1896-S Morgans sell for $100,000!"

    "...1884-S grades a conservative MS-67+ ... 1896-S enjoys general agreement at MS-70..."

    Sounded like insane grades and prices at the time. Fairly accurate assessments back in those raw days. The two brought a total over $1.4 Million at the Larry H. Miller Collection auction last November.

    Thanks for the link. So it turns out that I first saw the pair a number of years later, after they’d been graded.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 7:06PM

    The press release was a "press release". Seen raw, the 84-S was a soft 67 and the 96-S a 67++ (68, not that anyone but Jim Halperin would have dared to use such a grade). That was 40 years ago raw, so factor in some IIRC. I recall sitting at Jack Lee's table (this century), mostly discussing the 2/1 Contract Bridge bidding system, when he mentioned in passing (i guess a few coins were discussed) that he called the 96-S a 68. Forget Michael and LeBron, Both coins are clearly GOATs.

    The stickers mean CAC will give you a quote for that grade. Doesn't necessarily mean CAC grades it what the holder reads, (though this situation is but one of a handful), just that CAC will buy it by the grade on the holder.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • Dwight_MDwight_M Posts: 51 ✭✭✭

    Mfeld. I would say the 1886-0 67dmpl the single greatest 0 mint Morgan. Interestingly Wayne Miller called it the single best Morgan dollar of all the world in his second book.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 8:45AM

    Here's a nice quote from CoinFacts:

    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1886-o-1/7168

    Q. David Bowers wrote:

    Prooflike coins: Semi-prooflike coins are scarce, and fully prooflike coins are rare. Most prooflike coins have extensive bagmarks and are in lower grades. The finest known DMPL is probably the one slabbed by NGC as MS-67, which amazed onlookers as it sold for $231,000 in the Chris Schenkel sale (Bowers and Merena, November 1990). This coin was pictured in Wayne Miller's book and had the signal honor of being described by him as being "universally considered to be the most spectacular Morgan dollar now known, considering the extreme rarity of the date in gem prooflike condition." Probably no more than two or three MS-65 or better DMPL coins exist, including the previously mentioned MS-67.

    PCGS does have a MS67 DMPL in the pop report and it's listed as the "John Love - Wayne Miller - Jack Lee" specimen on Coin Facts, but there's no photo on CoinFacts.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 9:25AM

    @Dwight_M said:
    Mfeld. I would say the 1886-0 67dmpl the single greatest 0 mint Morgan. Interestingly Wayne Miller called it the single best Morgan dollar of all the world in his second book.

    Dwight, I think that’s as good as, if not a better candidate than any.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 9:22AM

    Here's the info from the Stack's Sale:

    1886-O Morgan Dollar - PCGS MS67DMPL POP 1/0 CAC - Ex. John Love, Wayne Miller, Jack Lee, Larry H. Miller

    This coin has a great provenance.

    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-OPNY4/1886-o-morgan-silver-dollar-ms-67-dmpl-pcgs-cac

    Provenance: From the Larry H. Miller Collection. Earlier ex John Love; Wayne Miller, 1977, via Dean Tavenner; Superior's sale of the Wayne Miller Morgan and Peace Dollar Collection, January 1986, lot 1279; our (Bowers and Merena's) Chris Schenkel Collection sale, November 1990, lot 400, at which time it was certified MS-67 DPL by NGC; Jack Lee I Collection. The plate coin for the issue in the 1982 Morgan and Peace Dollar Textbook by Wayne Miller

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 9:37AM

    @Dwight_M said:
    And for that matter , which is the greatest for each mint mark , P D O S CC?

    Great topic!

    @ColonelJessup said:
    From your post count, I see you haven't been around very long. We all hope you'll catch on quickly. ;)

    Agree 100%! ;)

    Looking forward to more posts! :)

    @ColonelJessup said:
    Tkacz-Walanka-David Hall---Jack lee 1896-S in MS69.

    Here's the 96-S:

    1896-S Morgan Dollar - "Far and Away the Finest Known" SB - PCGS MS69 POP 1/0 CAC - Ex. Chuck Walanka, David Hall, George Bodway, Jack Lee, Larry H. Miller

    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-OPO0A/1896-s-morgan-silver-dollar-ms-69-pcgs-cac

    Provenance: From the Larry H. Miller Collection. Earlier ex Chuck Walanka, sold to the following with the 1884-S dollar in the Larry H. Miller Collection at a Midwest coin show in the 1980s; David Hall; George Bodway; Jack Lee I Collection; Jack Lee II Collection; Heritage's sale of the Jack Lee III Collection, November 2005 Dallas, TX Signature Auction, lot 2328

    What are the Jack Lee I, II and III Collections? Why are they referenced like that?

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 9:36AM

    With the 2021 PCGS MS70 Morgans coming, any chance for the 96-S or other classic coins to be upgraded?

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Dwight_M said:
    Mfeld. I would say the 1886-0 67dmpl the single greatest 0 mint Morgan. Interestingly Wayne Miller called it the single best Morgan dollar of all the world in his second book.

    I remember reading that book in the late 70's. Revelatory!
    I remember the coin itself from when Wayne's coins were sold. Ungodly! Looking back in time, it occurs to me that you may have attended the sale too.
    I'd still hold out for the 95-O in MS67.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 9:44AM

    @Zoins said:
    What are the Jack Lee I, II and III Collections? Why are they referenced like that?

    Jack built his collection (Jack Lee I) , then sold it. Later he bought it back (jack Lee 2). A few were upgraded. That wasn't easy.
    Jack Lee 3? Where have you seen a reference to that.?

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 10:03AM

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @Zoins said:
    What are the Jack Lee I, II and III Collections? Why are they referenced like that?

    Jack built his collection (Jack Lee I) , then sold it. Later he bought it back (jack Lee 2). A few were upgraded. That wasn't easy.

    Good to know :+1:

    Jack Lee 3? Where have you seen a reference to that.?

    The 2005 Heritage Sale refers to The Jack Lee Collection III.

    It's mentioned in both the Provenance and the Collection name for the sale, the latter being the link at the bottom of the lot descriptions: View all of [The Jack Lee Collection, III ].

    Here's the 96-S lot description from the sale showing this:

    Ex: Jack Lee 1; Jack Lee 2. From The Jack Lee Collection, III

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/morgan-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1896-s-1-ms69-pcgs-of-the-many-remarkable-morgan-dollars-in-the-current-offering-of-coins-from-the-jack-lee-collection-/a/388-2328.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 11,921 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    With the 2021 PCGS MS70 Morgans coming, any chance for the 96-S or other classic coins to be upgraded?

    Come on. One should have absolutely nothing to do with the other.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 10:06AM

    @MFeld said:

    @Zoins said:
    With the 2021 PCGS MS70 Morgans coming, any chance for the 96-S or other classic coins to be upgraded?

    Come on. One should have absolutely nothing to do with the other.

    Perhaps with technical grading, but with market grading the classics are worth more ;)

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30, 2021 4:49PM

    @Zoins said:

    @ColonelJessup said:

    @Zoins said:
    What are the Jack Lee I, II and III Collections? Why are they referenced like that?

    Jack built his collection (Jack Lee I) , then sold it. Later he bought it back (jack Lee 2). A few were upgraded. That wasn't easy.

    Good to know :+1:

    Jack Lee 3? Where have you seen a reference to that.?

    The 2005 Heritage Sale refers to The Jack Lee Collection III.

    It's mentioned in both the Provenance and the Collection name for the sale, the latter being the link at the bottom of the lot descriptions: View all of [The Jack Lee Collection, III ].

    Here's the 96-S lot description from the sale showing this:

    I'd be curious to see if the Jack Lee III registry set has many (many, many) of the same coins as the previous ones.

    Evidently the cataloguer(s) of neither coin auction company for either coin were aware of the CoinWorld article from some month in late 79- early 80 or WTF. Art Leister and Tom Tkacz (also a pro golfer) are pre-Internet and thus lost to history.
    I'm better with more classic provenance items. Ancient history from the last century. Even in this century, does Coronet count for more than enough to "cancel" Vermeule? Hyphenation perhaps? Etc, etc, curmudgeon alert, etc

    Rhetorically, how many times has @tradedollarnut's Seated Dollar collection traded?

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell

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