My Newfoundland half grading "issue"
Barberian
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I posted my frustrations with the grading of Newfoundland halves in the thread about Canadian coins, but here is an example of the wide range of wear for the grade I see with these halves. These coins are both VF25. The 1876H has light surface abrasion from cleaning or wiping but has nice detail and has toned nicely. The 1898 is heavily toned (which I like), shows no visible surface abrasion but has a gash or planchet defect on the neck. I'd grade the 1876H as VF30-35 and the 1898 as F12-15 based upon its wear.
Here's a VF35 1881 for comparison with the 1876 VF25. Virtually identical wear.
All I can figure is PCGS puts a lot of emphasis on surfaces over wear with these coins. What am I missing here? Does the 1898 get a bump because it looks more original?
Comments
The 1876 was probably net graded to allow for the light cleaning you note.
Now, what about the 1898. It is far from VF25 in my mind because there is no separation of the braids from the face and no detail in the first two braids. The braids are flat and merge with the face. Does it get a boost for its original appearance?
Thanks for the reply.
Because of the way these coins wear the issue of "opinion" really comes into play. Like you, I would call the 1898 as being somewhere in the "Fine" range but, obviously, the grader had a different opinion.
One of the problems I see is that I fall for TrueView pictures of coins. The pictures of 1876H and 1881 are glamour shots and not the best pictures for judging quality. They were all reasonably priced for their PCGS grade, so I didn't return the 1876H.
I agree with the VF25 grade for the 1898. As is typical of many of these Newfies, It has weakly struck centers. At least Cents is complete on the reverse!
I would rather see these in hand to get a complete view of the surfaces... I would rather avoid being critical unless I have had the same opportunity as the TP graders to see the coins in hand. There are strike issues that come into play. A close review of the fields can help in determining the most appropriate grade outcome.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I haven't seen the 98 in hand. From the photos, the surfaces look OK and the coin appears very original to me. The 1881 has better surfaces than the 1876H, though I suspect it had a very light cleaning a long time ago. The 76H looks great in a TrueView but not under a 3X loupe.
Thanks for your comments! I believe I need to focus more on surfaces than wear.
I see a bit more meat remaining to the 1881 than the 1876H, even accounting for the 76H having perhaps a slightly weaker strike. Similar obverses, but look particularly at the reverse... the overlapping portions of the pseudo-wreath and the beads. I'm comfortable with a 5-point difference between the two, especially with the 1881 having better surfaces.
The 1898 is a nice-looking coin BUT flat-out overgraded at 25.
Grading of mid-level circ pieces can be all over the place. For example, look at Walker halves in similar grades (say, 25-45) and you'll see the variance.
I agree the 1881 has more meat to it than the 1876. That's a useful tip on the reverse wreath overlap. I really hadn't studied the progression of wear on the reverse before.
No specialized Newfie 50c knowledge here (although, see, I didn't say "half dollar"!)... just looks to clearly be more there to my eye at an obvious comparison point.
You have the right idea, though - keep looking at/comparing/contrasting as many pieces as you can. Ideally, compare pieces from the same year/mint to even out die and strike variance.
If you really want to start scratching your your head, start comparing vs. pieces in ICCS holders (or even older ICCS vs newer ICCS).
How many Newfie Half Dollars do you think cross a grader's desk? Maybe an average of one coin every few weeks? Hard to be consistent like that.
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Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Not to be any more difficult than usual... How many Newfei Halfs have even survived in a condition worth submitting to begin with?
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Only 57 in UNC grades for Vicky halves per PCGS. 102 Eddies and 225 Georges. NGC is similar. Total mintage for all dates is less than 3 million. My guess at survival would be 40-50%.
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should it really matter for a professional? Everything should be graded using the same criteria, should it not?
My experience is that US services generally overgrade Canadian coins. Would like your opinions.
A lot of Newfies in TPG holders have been cleaned as well.
Based on what standards- their own or somebody else's?
I don't know if it "should" matter, but it does.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I rarely see Newfie Halfs in decent shape. The surviving population with the look are elusive. I suppose the same can be said many of the 1870-1936 Canadian Halfs as well.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
On the 76 there appears to be something right above the date, a gouge or something, that probably is why it graded lower than the 81. Both of those have the look I like. The 98 Has lost more detail, especially noticable on her hair braid. I'm not seeing anything wrong with the order these were graded in....the exact numbers really don't mean anything to me.
I would say based on Charlton guidelines. I don't know if that is followed these days, it's just what I learned to go by.
Ok- thanks. I have not found anything that identifies the standards that US services use to grade Canadian coins so I'm presuming they're somehow internally developed, but I couldn't say for sure.
The reason I asked the question is that overgrading coins compared to standards you don't follow and overgrading coins by ignoring your own standards are two different things.