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I don't understand why people cheer on an implosion...

Reading too much online lately but a few things strike me as odd.
1. Stackers seem to be cheering on the end to the price manipulation that enabled them to build their stacks at a discount if they believe their own conspiracies. Unless they're done accumulating, they should be cheering on the continuation of their favorite asset being placed on sale.
2. The stacks I see posted often are large enough to get you through a month of "armageddon" let alone to retire on. If we are living in a world of $200 silver or more, your bullets will be worth far more than your short stacks.
3. Those who are writing about the manipulation and cheering on the end are in much better positions than the average stacker. They are invested not only in physical but also playing the futures markets.

That said, what's with all of the angst? I believe we will have a day of financial reckoning but why does anyone in their right mind want to see it accelerated?

Help me understand

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Comments

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold is just in case insurance for me. The gutter metal is just a speculation play that generally goes nowhere. Certainly one of the worst "investments" of my life.

    I don't cheer for Armageddon or the collapse of the banks, markets, comex or whatever. Lifes good (mostly) right where it is. PEACE!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2021 11:02AM

    Those that want to play the market to make profit... are probably the more vocal ones regarding this. Those who use it for 'insurance' are much less so. Just like with other insurance, hopefully you never have to use it. It is only there for when the bad things happen. And also to help balance against stock corrections, etc.

    But I think there is also some 'us against them' in play. Many just do not like to see things manipulated so brazenly, though that has probably gone on as long as man has existed. So there is quite a bit of cheering when the big boys make a blunder.

    ----- kj
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2021 12:10PM

    predicting is not the same as cheering. Central bank policy and lack of regulatory action have turned markets into a casino where the FED is dealing the cards and selling the chips. Anyone with their eyes open knows how it will end. The only question is when.

    PS: I'm done accumulating, let the party begin.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    LOL you live and breathe doom and gloom.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2021 12:22PM

    yet you're the prepper hiding in the woods. lol

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm just glad this place is mostly a think tank rather than an echo chamber.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • RobMRobM Posts: 524 ✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2021 1:04PM

    The problem imo is that that fiscal and monetary policy has unfairly discouraged many middle class people from participating more fully in the economy. The fed has two mandates and two major issues related to them. First, it has never been able to define maximum employment. Second, it willfully breaks the stable price mandate and is encouraged to do do by government. Stable means no price increases. If prices were stable interest rates would be significantly higher, and things like real property, education, and healthcare, would be priced lower, much lower. It's gotten to the point where most people are taking risks simply because they expect markets will perpetually be artificially supported, and at worst, debts forgiven. So, arguably, yes, the economy taking medicine now might be better than the addiction of the past two decades and as far as the eye can see.

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2021 1:11PM

    Because most that root for it are miserable and they want company.

    Of course there is much more to it, but when boiled down this is about whats left.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most folks would prefer consistent 2% inflation, 3% risk free returns on savings deposits, 4% cola increases, and 5% unemployment, to the alternative wild booms and busts of the past.
    If They caught and punished cheating and cheaters, so much the better.

    It would be a weird world with $200 silver and everything else is pretty much the same.

    Especially if it still costs an average of $12 an oz to mine and refine.
    Maybe some of the new stackers who drive it up will become collectors of real coins

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    yet you're the prepper hiding in the woods. lol

    Hiding in the woods? brother I'm out here livin with a capital L. You can have that city chicken life. Been there, done that. I'm exactly where I want to be. Hopefully you find your way too. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,036 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobM said:
    Stable means no price increases. If prices were stable interest rates would be significantly higher, and things like real property, education, and healthcare, would be priced lower, much lower.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/whats-the-relationship-between

    0% inflation leads to a stagnant economy. why risk money if your money will still have the same buying power in 10 years? this is why there is a 2% goal. hopefully we see a decent GDP with good risk taking.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2021 3:03PM

    @MsMorrisine said:
    why risk money if your money will still have the same buying power in 10 years?

    And this is why the Wall St. controlled FED wants inflation. So you will take risks with Wall St. products, investments and loans. Think about it. Who profits from debt?

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .. > @derryb said:

    Think about it. Who profits from debt?

    Those who have good business acumen. Entrepreneurs that want to start a business. Companies that want to expand their business. Individuals who buy homes/real estate. Scientists looking for ways to cure cancer. Its a very long list.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For every one of your fortunate souls there are tens of thousands of debtors who are not so fortunate. They keep digging a deeper hole while their lenders are a big part of your successful "business acumen."

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    For every one of your fortunate souls there are tens of thousands of debtors who are not so fortunate. They keep digging a deeper hole while their lenders are a big part of your successful "business acumen."

    Maybe its time to take away their shovel.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:
    For every one of your fortunate souls there are tens of thousands of debtors who are not so fortunate. They keep digging a deeper hole while their lenders are a big part of your successful "business acumen."

    Maybe its time to take away their shovel.

    tell that to your beloved FED. lol

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:
    Because most that root for it are miserable and they want company.

    Of course there is much more to it, but when boiled down this is about whats left.

    That and the need to be proven right.

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:
    For every one of your fortunate souls there are tens of thousands of debtors who are not so fortunate. They keep digging a deeper hole while their lenders are a big part of your successful "business acumen."

    Maybe its time to take away their shovel.

    tell that to your beloved FED. lol

    Ive been advocating for higher rates for a decade. But you seem to endorse low rates with fears of doom if rates rise. One could surmise you wish to enable your hole-diggers. Whose side are you on?

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 25, 2021 7:07PM

    The long term average rate of return ( alpha) of an asset class, and the range (sigma) of expected rate of return, the potential volatility (beta) and the risk of loss (oops) ought to be correlated, imo. Then there's usefulness/satisfaction/liquidity of ownership to consider, the "leaving of one's options open" shall we say

    When I can get a safe 3 or 4% in a money market or short term CD, I'll put more there. For now, a mortgage at 3ish % and the Principal in the stock and metals markets makes more sense than selling those to settle the real estate debt. Especially with tax consequences of taking the profits vs letting them grow.

    Borrowing money to get an education, buy a house, or start a business is not the same as charging vacations, fancy dinners, expensive clothes, cars, etc.
    The experiences are fine in moderation, but many do it to excess..
    Borrowing to speculate/gamble on collectibles, options, or cryptos, etc could range from crazy to lucky to brilliant, and to extreme fortunes to disastrous losses.

    Or something in between.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • zski123zski123 Posts: 256 ✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:
    For every one of your fortunate souls there are tens of thousands of debtors who are not so fortunate. They keep digging a deeper hole while their lenders are a big part of your successful "business acumen."

    Maybe its time to take away their shovel.

    tell that to your beloved FED. lol

    Ive been advocating for higher rates for a decade. But you seem to endorse low rates with fears of doom if rates rise. One could surmise you wish to enable your hole-diggers. Whose side are you on?

    I wonder if the hole is too big now to get out of? The Fed is buying 3/4's of the treasuries currently being issued. If they raise rates, they destroy their own balance sheet. The crux of my original post was targeting people who want to accelerate the day of reckoning by ending the manipulation of the gold and silver markets. I do think the day of reckoning will come as they always do. I have no idea when that day will be but I am certain it will be ugly and nearly all of us are unprepared so why accelerate it?

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 1, 2021 5:34AM

    If gold and silver went to $10,000 and $200 tomorrow respectively, the world would not end. In fact, if they went there tomorrow people would still go to the beach, mow their lawn, watch their kids play soccer, ect.

    There doesnt need to be a catastrophic reason for higher metals prices, heck, people have socked $1 trillion into video game money. The world hasnt ended.

    Also, if rates went higher, the Fed's balance sheet would not be destroyed. The Govt would still pay interest and principle at maturity. No destruction would occur.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    I'm just glad this place is mostly a think tank rather than an echo chamber.

    :)

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that the sooner the reconning comes and things are honestly priced or deleted, the less deep the hole will be to climb out of. But, people and politicians want to continue to kick the can down the road. Sooner or later you run out of road.

    thefinn
  • VanHalenVanHalen Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The cartel that runs The Fed and owns D.C. is scary indeed. The #1 goal is enriching themselves and their cronies. All else is collateral damage.

    Additionally, The Fed thinks they can avoid any type of recession, anytime they want, at any cost price need to pay. Washington, D.C. thinks they can avoid any type of recession, anytime they want, at any price they need to spend.

    Keep interest rates at 0% and buy trillions of USD in treasuries with newly created USD that go on The Fed's balance sheet if they want them to is one of their answers. Add whatever they chose to the US National Debt and hid whatever amount D.C. wants to is another. We've added over $100,000 per citizen in new, unpaid for cash to the cooked books in the last 13 years alone. You know it's far higher than that "published amount" and must be maintained and accelerated to keep the merry-go-round spinning.

    We're well past the tipping point. Greed and insanity have a firm grip and won't let go.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2, 2021 6:18AM

    Implosion of corrupt financial entities and institutions is a good thing where honest market participants are concerned. Their mere existence destroys free markets.

    For example:

    • The FED has removed true price discovery/valuation from Wall St. investment products simply by throwing Trillions of dollars at them.
    • The COMEX hinders true price discovery of physical precious metals simply by creating and trading unlimited amounts of paper promises for precious metals that never see the daylight of delivery.
    • Major banks, both commercial and bullion, provide astronomical leverage to mega investors such as hedge funds, putting these markets at extreme risk.
    • Financial regulators are staffed by people who come from the very ranks of the organizations they regulate.

    So yes, I cheer the implosion of any such outfit, they are a cancer to free trade. They are exactly what the communists are referring to when they teach their children about the evils of capitalism. Capitalism does not have to be a bad thing.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • alexercaalexerca Posts: 243 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    predicting is not the same as cheering. Central bank policy and lack of regulatory action have turned markets into a casino where the FED is dealing the cards and selling the chips. Anyone with their eyes open knows how it will end. The only question is when.

    PS: I'm done accumulating, let the party begin.

    As long as there are us fiat dollars coming my way I'll never be done accumulating .

  • bp777bp777 Posts: 380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 25, 2021 3:23PM

    I graduated from hs right after 9/11. I had one of my best friends bleed to death in IRAQ fighting for nothing; his sister eventually became a heroin addict and died of an overdose because she lost her brother. I was in grad school at RIT in ‘08 when the crash happened. It was bad. I had a number of friends whose parents/loved ones killed themselves over bad real estate deals. My parents were not harmed at all because they properly managed their debt and put all of their savings into cash, firearms, and silver.

    The whole system is corrupt. For example, Endless wars; Debt is exponential; western birth rates hv collapsed; u can take out a 100k+ student loan straight out of high school w the click of a button ; families buy food on credit cards; a gallon of gas is hovering around $4; addiction to cheap labor; addiction to hard narcotics and on and on.

    The sooner this “system” collapses the better. And yes it will be bad for everybody

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,282 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh boy, things are getting twisted up in here. Onward with the de-evolution because recent evolution has brought out the nut jobs in full force. Semper Fi!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • bp777bp777 Posts: 380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Twisted? The post posed a question why people r cheering on an implosion.

  • bp777bp777 Posts: 380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Remember when cramer was pumping up bear stearns one evening (idk around $20/ share) and then one morning it was announced that bs had been sold to jpm for $2/share?

    Remember the may 1 silver massacre in 2011? Prior to that event jpm owned no silver. After that event, jpm slowly accumulated more silver than any organization, govt., etc in the history of the world.

    Now thats twisted!

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Brutal life events, bp777. I can see why you're so despairing.

    All I can say is, my better fortune has allowed me to stay hopeful about the American experiment as a flawed but best existing way to manage human turpitude.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2021 2:28AM

    All I can say is, my better fortune has allowed me to stay hopeful about the American experiment as a flawed but best existing way to manage human turpitude.

    didn't one of the Roman Caesar's say just about the same thing?

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • bp777bp777 Posts: 380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The American experiment ended in 1913. And im one of the lucky ones. I live in so cal, bought a house at the bottom of the market in 2011, and get paid a considerable amount of money to really not do much. Figuratively speaking, there are currently alot more “have nots” than “haves”. This debt and death empire that perfectly symbolizes “america” has to end. The sooner the better

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 26, 2021 8:02AM

    Speaking of implosion.

    Peter Schiff: Dollar Crisis "Close At Hand"

    "This crisis will be much worse than 2008, and unlike 2008, nobody’s getting a bailout. The reason the Fed could do the bailouts is the Fed could print the money to fund the bailout. The next crisis is the dollar that is going to be in crisis. The dollar is going to be crashing, and they can’t bail anybody out from a dollar crash because all they can do is print more dollars, which will just accelerate the collapse of the dollar."

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    All I can say is, my better fortune has allowed me to stay hopeful about the American experiment as a flawed but best existing way to manage human turpitude.

    didn't one of the Roman Caesar's say just about the same thing?

    I don't think any of the Roman Caesars were saying that about the Republic. Maybe Cicero.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The USA did’t become prosperous because of central bank control.

    If you read enough of the book, “When Money Dies” based on the experiences of Weimar Germany, you see clearly enough that money printing and debt creation isn’t the way to solve a debt problem.

    And yet, that’s what the global central bank complex is doing. Seems like a bad idea to me - then again, I’m not a central banker.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @alexerca said:
    As long as there are us fiat dollars coming my way I'll never be done accumulating .

    Digits >>>> Colored paper >>>> Gold
    Easy-peasy.
    I'm sure I could have made a bunch more money some other way but I don't much care for stress.

  • RobMRobM Posts: 524 ✭✭✭

    US has never had revenues above $3.5T in a year. Next year's budget proposal is $6T, which means the IRS is counting on more than half a trillion $ in additional revenue to attain the rosy $1.8T predicted budget deficit. Yay!

  • AzurescensAzurescens Posts: 2,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @zski123 said:

    1. Stackers seem to be cheering on the end to the price manipulation that enabled them to build their stacks at a discount if they believe their own conspiracies. Unless they're done accumulating, they should be cheering on the continuation of their favorite asset being placed on sale.

    ^ "We will beat you with your food and you will be thankful for it."

  • xonoxxonox Posts: 1

    @zski123 said:
    Reading too much online lately but a few things strike me as odd.
    1. Stackers seem to be cheering on the end to the price manipulation that enabled them to build their stacks at a discount if they believe their own conspiracies. Unless they're done accumulating, they should be cheering on the continuation of their favorite asset being placed on sale.
    2. The stacks I see posted often are large enough to get you through a month of "armageddon" let alone to retire on. If we are living in a world of $200 silver or more, your bullets will be worth far more than your short stacks.
    3. Those who are writing about the manipulation and cheering on the end are in much better positions than the average stacker. They are invested not only in physical but also playing the futures markets.

    That said, what's with all of the angst? I believe we will have a day of financial reckoning but why does anyone in their right mind want to see it accelerated?

    Help me understand

    I agree with you. Since december 2020 I have managed to amass 10 lbs of silver in various shapes and sizes. It can stay manipulated for the rest of my life as all my Precious Metal goes to my son.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2, 2021 8:12AM

    @zski123 said:

    That said, what's with all of the angst? I believe we will have a day of financial reckoning but why does anyone in their right mind want to see it accelerated?

    There are those who believe the rot has to be removed from the system for the system to work to the benefit of all. Since 2008 the FED has delayed the day of reckoning by kicking the can down the road in order to benefit a few at the expense of the many. Wealth inequality is at an all time high. As long as the most wealthy continue to benefit, nothing will change. It will now literally take a systemic implosion. The only fix at this point is THE BIG FIX.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,755 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We ask for fiscal responsibility. We get fiscal reprehensibility. Close enough for government work.

  • bp777bp777 Posts: 380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2021 2:05PM

    Check this out this article by Martin Armstrong you guys (watch the videos):

    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/corruption/new-evidence-that-world-trade-center-was-not-s-surprise-more-lies/

    There is a very good chance that, figuratively speaking, the plug is pulled to prevent people from learning the truth

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,282 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2021 4:44PM

    Go team go! Semper!! How did we evolve to pile of brain dead dung that we currently are? Good news for you mother earth, we will extinct ourselves soon enough and you can once again start the healing process. Godspeed. Lulz!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • DNADaveDNADave Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bp777 said:
    The American experiment ended in 1913. And im one of the lucky ones. I live in so cal, bought a house at the bottom of the market in 2011, and get paid a considerable amount of money to really not do much. Figuratively speaking, there are currently alot more “have nots” than “haves”. This debt and death empire that perfectly symbolizes “america” has to end. The sooner the better

    But American “have nots” have more than most of the rest of the world. And def more opportunities to change their situation

  • rcmb3220rcmb3220 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭✭

    @jmski52 said:
    The USA did’t become prosperous because of central bank control.

    If you read enough of the book, “When Money Dies” based on the experiences of Weimar Germany, you see clearly enough that money printing and debt creation isn’t the way to solve a debt problem.

    And yet, that’s what the global central bank complex is doing. Seems like a bad idea to me - then again, I’m not a central banker.

    If one were to read ALL of that book, they would find out how utterly useless gold and silver are in a SHTF scenario. They could also read Anna Eisenmenger’s book too.

  • bp777bp777 Posts: 380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 4, 2021 6:53PM

    Good quality ammo and the means to use said ammo is king. But getting back to the initial question asked at the top of this post: why r people cheering on a collapse? Watch the 2 videos in the armstrong post. That building did not collapse, it was wired and imploded. It takes time and preparation to wire buildings to bring them down. Was this a planned event? Where is all the missing money? The 2 questions posed are rhetorical. Once the system collapses this insanity will stop and hopefully well get real answers

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not only are those questions rhetorical, they're ridiculous.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2021 6:30AM

    many ridiculous questions have now proven to be correct conspiracy theories. Never say never, it reveals narrow mindedness. LOL

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 5, 2021 8:03AM

    @derryb said:
    many ridiculous questions have now proven to be correct conspiracy theories. Never say never, it reveals narrow mindedness. LOL

    Well, you have said perception is reality. So keep running with that. Lol

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

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