A few questions about dipped coins
bagofnickels
Posts: 349 ✭✭✭✭
Hi guys me again. So I am familiar with the process of dipping coins to restore them to a blast white state. After browsing through this website and quite a few others I have seen people use the phrase "dipped out" as in, "yes that coin is well struck but it looks dipped out."
Can anybody tell me what exactly that means? Is it just a coin that has been dipped to long or by an unskilled person? I am also assuming a dipped out coin would be less desirable to many than a coin that is either original or has been conserved (dipped?) by someone who is skilled.
These questions precede my last question and that is: how do I determine if a coin has been overdipped or harmed by an unskilled collector/dealer? Is there a way to do so from photos (like trueviews)? I personally prefer coins with gentle toning and a more original look but at present have my eye on a blast white walker that has an above average strike.
Thanks!
Comments
I am no expert on dipping, but my understanding is that dipping strips the top layer off the coin. Do it too many times and the coin is "dipped out".
I once tried a coin dip on a common brass coin and left it there overnight. The surface was dull and etched, as might be expected.
@bagofnickels welcome, there are a wide assortment of liquids to expose a coin to. Everything from, distilled water, mineral oil, acetone to caustics, acids and others. Grade and condition knowledge helps one to acquire the best coin they can afford without trying to "improve" it at all. Good luck. Peace Roy
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Thanks for the replies. So a properly dipped coin can straight grade quite easily correct? How does CAC view a coin that has been dipped? I'm asking because most of my purchases lately ARE graded examples and while the green bean isn't required it is appreciated. Also most of my coins are coming from the internet and while some of the dealers I have been using are very upfront about whether a coin is original or not there are coins other less upfront sellers have I would like to be able to consider purchasing from. Are there any tips you guys and gals use to avoid over-dipped coins?
thanks again!
A dipped coin will never get to CAC because it won't grade out. Typically someone dips a coin because it's plain old ugly and they're not concerned about slabbing. Other times someone will dip a coin to pass it on as lustrous. You can typically tell a dipped coin in photos by the way light reflects off it. I will dip silver eagles that for whatever reason have picked up ugly toning. I'm not planning to grade but want my stack to look pretty. Don't buy dipped coins as numismatics.
Not true at all! Take a look at the hotlink in my signature of one of my many Registry sets. Every one of the coins in my entire collection that is eligible for a CAC has one. While some of the Half Dimes through Dollars have slight toning, MANY are blast white! Many of these are from two centuries ago, so we know (and CAC knows) these have been dipped. But the key is that they have been “gently” dipped, so brilliant, blinding luster remains. You’ll also notice the high percentage of my coins with + grades.
I agree that “knowledgeable” collectors prefer coins with toning, but there’s a very large but silent group that prefers their coins to look like the designers envisioned them as they came off the press. I know this because most of the coins in my collection were obtained from the five big name auction companies, and bidding is often frenzied for these “dipped” coins with CAC’s!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
The best tip of buying a coin with very lustrous eye appeal that you like that has been dipped but not over-dipped is to buy a coin with a CAC. As noted by others, CAC will not sticker a coin that has been over-dipped.
Make sure you read my reply just above this reply.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
The luster on a dipped out coin is simply not as beautiful as the luster of an original or properly dipped coin. The dipped out coin will be bright and shiny but lacking on depth. To get a sense of “originality” you might buy a few roles of BU Franklins or silver Roosevelts. There are plenty of undipped silver coins out there to study. As an experiment, buy a couple of heavily tones AU “junk” silver coins and dip them aggressively. You’ll learn something and quickly learn the difference.
Toning occurs when the atoms on the surface of the coin reacts with environmental factors to form sulfides, oxides, etc. When you dip a coin, you chemically remove the toning layer from the surface. Since the toning contains parts of the original surface of the coin, you are effectively removing that original surface. The longer a coin is exposed to dip (concentration, time, number of dips) the more silver is being removed from the surface. Coins that have been excessively dipped can exhibit a dull, washed out appearance because metal from the surface and microscopic flow lines (luster) gone.
This is just a simplified explanation. There is a lot more to the chemistry, but this should provide a basic idea
There’s very few coins that have a truly fresh original looking luster like they popped out of a roll. I prefer lightly toned coins with fresh strong luster coming through. An unbeatable combination. Avoid white coins as most will look like they were dipped somewhat unless you see that fresh type of out of a roll look. Just my opinion
Thanks again to everyone who replied. I feel I have a little bit better understanding of dipping a coin now. Correct me if I am wrong. Dipping is a common numismatic practice and most silver coins that are quite old have likely been dipped at some time or another. It can remove some or all of the toning/grime on a coin dependent upon many variables (strength of dip, time exposed, how well the coin is rinsed and dried) and can be totally fine if done by a pro and really bad if done by an amateur. I think for the time being any expensive coins I buy will be in a slab and any REALLY expensive coins will need quite a bit more research and learning prior to whipping out a wallet. I am attracted to the original "look" though, as I have read, unless you are the custodian of said coin its entire life you can't know in 100% certainty that it is original. I am guessing it becomes something you learn to read and become cognizant of as your experience grows.
I am getting more and more excited to go to coin shows where I can view more coins in person. I have been told the best way to learn about coins is by looking at lots and lots of them. I also am going to get some very toned junk silver and dip it to see first hand what the effects are. I did the same for toning on certain coins using heat and thought the results of that showed that some of the coins I thought natural were painfully artificial.
really glad this forum is here.
slightly dipped, carefully dipped, any dipped etc...
if that is ok to do, why is it not recognized and **accepted **as simply dipped?
why does it need to have a :dipped pedigree ?? maybe soon "dipped by ......King Joe" on a polka dot sticker.
it is all a matter of $$$$$$$$$$$$ because pedegree and comments seems to bring $$$$ for some people.
Why is a TPG not calling the "fixed" coins as they are : dipped and cleaned instead of preserved without even being listed on the slab?...and for them it is a positive.! but for the normal Joe it is frowned on?
Logically, the next move will be to give the dip itself a grading and or rating of MS 65 or whatever, depending what quality and brand of poison u dipped it in.
I said it before: **this industry should ha a norm established for grading **(just like most industrial products) and totally forget rating dipping.
any collector worth ist powder will buy a coin in hand raw and does not need to be told for money it is "slightly" dipped a long time ago.
It should have absolutely NO bearing. A coin is as it is... period. take it or leave it.
And if the coin you want to buy is "cleaned or suspect or whatever, you do not have to buy, unless you want it.
End of my dipping rant......I feel better now...
Well said........Totally agree.
My way of thinking is I buy it if it looks like it’s fresh luster like out of a original roll. Don’t care if was dipped as long as it doesn’t seem to look like it was dipped out.
I think it’s safe to say most silver coins were dipped at some point especially older silver say pre 1935 or so
I once saw a dealer 40 years ago open an original roll of standing liberty quarters. Wish I would have bought one.
Dipping or cleaning???
Let's have the truth here!! please!!
what is the difference if the result is equal or perhaps improves the appearance and eye appeal of a coin?
Just look closely at many, many coins offered in European auctions. they live on dipped coins.and it is usually accepted as the collectors are used to it.
Does any of you think that a circulted silver coin from 1825 , or however old, with absolutely NO dirt or "dust" showing in any of the tiny crevices, has NOT been cleaned in some way? And does any of you think that a very shiny coin "must" have been whizzed or polished? Why is that?? because the TPG said so. Or is it possible that this coin was in a Grandpas's pant pocket for years as a talisman and after GP passed it ended up in the proverbial drawer with GP's other small things to keep for the Grand-Grand kids??
TPGs have their own designations, codes, and notes, and using their descriptions is usually their easy way out instead of saying sorry we do not know. (Even the law says: you are innocent until proven guilty!.) They can not prove why this coin looks the way it does. But to get paid anyway, they use their own, usually mean very little or nothing terminology.
an easy way out to allow for the possibilities that suit them but may not necessarily fact. the possible facts.
End of my dipping, cleaning, or TPG mislabeling rant.