Where’s the S?

tradedollarnut

I was gonna take a flier on this coin...old holder, ghost mintmark. But then ebay added tax and I said no way. Seller was very nice about it - I offered to pay any fees and they said thanks but not necessary. So I’ll throw it to the Forum - where the S?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1875-S-Trade-Dollar-PCGS-MS64-OGH-Superb-Eye-Appeal-Fantastic-Luster/384093652691?hash=item596dc406d3:g:Wc8AAOSw7rReF6hQ

Higashiyama

Under the right side of the S in GRAINS.

ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ

🤔🤔🤔

The_Dinosaur_Man

The S is faint, perhaps a grease filled die? Or a conveniently positioned smudge on the slab?

MsMorrisine

all of the eye appeal with less of the mint mark.

perhaps this is an OMM. none over S

MrEureka

I don't know why the mintmark doesn't show up in the photo, but everything else about the coin looks like a SF product, not Philly.

Higashiyama

If you look at Coins Facts images, there is a VF example that appears to have a very weak mint mark, not just the result of wear.

coinbuf

Hard to say for sure, that slab has its share of scuffs and scratches so the mm might be more easily seen in hand.

Higashiyama

WIth thanks to Coin Facts:

tradedollarnut

@Higashiyama said:
Under the right side of the S in GRAINS.

Show me another 75-S with that mintmark position. I couldn’t find one

jmlanzaf

@tradedollarnut said:
I was gonna take a flier on this coin...old holder, ghost mintmark. But then ebay added tax and I said no way. Seller was very nice about it - I offered to pay any fees and they said thanks but not necessary. So I’ll throw it to the Forum - where the S?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1875-S-Trade-Dollar-PCGS-MS64-OGH-Superb-Eye-Appeal-Fantastic-Luster/384093652691?hash=item596dc406d3:g:Wc8AAOSw7rReF6hQ

With managed payments, there are no nonrefundable fees.

tradedollarnut

@Higashiyama said:
WIth thanks to Coin Facts:

Yes - thus my ghost mintmark comment. I’ve never seen another...

tradedollarnut

@MrEureka said:
I don't know why the mintmark doesn't show up in the photo, but everything else about the coin looks like a SF product, not Philly.

Agreed

MsMorrisine

I feel like we've been around this missing S TD before.

jesbroken

Is this ghost "S" mm doubled? What is the blurred areas on the legs?
Just curious.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

in case anyone wants to dig through HA to find if any match that high position. i looked through a page or so and didn't see any variation like that.

something odd about that pcgs 5.0 coin. the mm are rather large on normal examples and that smudge area doesn't even seem to match the size, even if it were just a matter of oddly placed grease. maybe something like this one but not really a good comp.

the seller provided pretty decent image but a close-up of that mm area would help this coin for miles.

fathom

weird.

keoj

I think that the scratched on the plastic are obscuring the S significantly. Same on the feathers. This is not a unique die..... see Die A of attached file... the die breaks on America are the tell. Very interesting plastic scratches.....hope this helps....

keoj

DelawareDoons

The slab is scuffed and it obscures the mintmark as well as the legs.

The end.

zas107

eBay added tax to a coin purchase of mine today despite being a non taxable good in my state. Every few months this issue seems to pop up. Not sure what tax status on coins is where TDN lives.

CalifornianKing

under the s?

Crypto

I have seen those before as well with equally faint Ss. That coins in the OGH looks familiar but I wouldnt swear to it

derryb

@Higashiyama said:
WIth thanks to Coin Facts:

This S is much lower than the coin in the OP

yosclimber

@Higashiyama said:
WIth thanks to Coin Facts:

@derryb said:
This S is much lower than the coin in the OP

They appear about the same vertical position to me.
But the ebay mm position is obscured by the scuff, and the CF mm position is somewhat obscured by wear.
So comparing the positions in these photos is a somewhat "fuzzy" process involving finding the most likely
outline of the S.

Fortunately @keoj proved the ebay coin has a known reverse die, based on the crack pattern through ERICA.

oreville

I found TDN comment about ebay sales tax more interesting. I think having to comply with sales tax rules hurts ebay. as I now look harder for out of state sellers not required to charge sales tax.

I wonder if ebay has any nexus in New York State requiring them to collect NYState sales tax?

Namvet69

From what I've read, the cleaning of rusted dies has caused the loss of mm detail. Peace Roy

Connecticoin

@oreville said:
I found TDN comment about ebay sales tax more interesting. I think having to comply with sales tax rules hurts ebay. as I now look harder for out of state sellers not required to charge sales tax.

I wonder if ebay has any nexus in New York State requiring them to collect NYState sales tax?

Especially when ebay gets it wrong. I have been fighting with them to get rid of Conn sales tax on coins, which are tax exempt. Ebay (lazily and stupidly) claim they cannot exempt the coin category because it contains "bullion" items.

Also, I thought all coins over $1,000 were tax exempt in California, so is Ebay screwing that up too?

LanceNewmanOCC

the top left serif of the D in dollar has been affected by either the grease or hit of that area. also on the circulated example posted. probably not a coincidence. if not for some comments about the coin exhibiting S mint qualities/diagnostics, i'd question it being an S at all and someone saw that area and just thought it was a weak S.

imho, the scuff on the slab isn't significant enough to obscure the mm that severely so that we question whether it has one at all or not. BUT until someone holds it in hand and/or finds other images, mostly we can just speculate.

amwldcoin

Ebay seems to be hit and miss on sales tax collections. I just had a $1000+ sale to California and sales tax was not collected.

On another note, ebay collected sales tax on me here in Ga. out of the blue when they hadn't in the past. Couple a phone calls and a few weeks later ebay paid me back the sales tax to my PayPal account!

@Connecticoin said:

@oreville said:
I found TDN comment about ebay sales tax more interesting. I think having to comply with sales tax rules hurts ebay. as I now look harder for out of state sellers not required to charge sales tax.

I wonder if ebay has any nexus in New York State requiring them to collect NYState sales tax?

Especially when ebay gets it wrong. I have been fighting with them to get rid of Conn sales tax on coins, which are tax exempt. Ebay (lazily and stupidly) claim they cannot exempt the coin category because it contains "bullion" items.

Also, I thought all coins over $1,000 were tax exempt in California, so is Ebay screwing that up too?

BAJJERFAN

@oreville said:
I found TDN comment about ebay sales tax more interesting. I think having to comply with sales tax rules hurts ebay. as I now look harder for out of state sellers not required to charge sales tax.

I wonder if ebay has any nexus in New York State requiring them to collect NYState sales tax?

eBay is in the best position financially and technically to act as a collection agent as opposed to individual sellers doing it. The clever way around it is to have a trusted person in a no sales tax on coins state buy it for you. 7% on that TD is about $271 hardly chump change to some of us. eBay wins and the buyer's state loses out. Also it's not necessary for eBay or any vendor to have a nexus in the state in order to collect the ST. If the buyer's shipping address is in a state that levies ST then ST is collected for that state.

jesbroken

@tradedollarnut said:
I was gonna take a flier on this coin...old holder, ghost mintmark. But then ebay added tax and I said no way. Seller was very nice about it - I offered to pay any fees and they said thanks but not necessary. So I’ll throw it to the Forum - where the S?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1875-S-Trade-Dollar-PCGS-MS64-OGH-Superb-Eye-Appeal-Fantastic-Luster/384093652691?hash=item596dc406d3:g:Wc8AAOSw7rReF6hQ

tdn: I contacted Danielle at TECC and she said it was indeed scuffs and offered an additional photo at an angle which indeed shows the "S" mint mark.
Jim

LanceNewmanOCC

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
imho, the scuff on the slab isn't significant enough to obscure the mm that severely so that we question whether it has one at all or not. BUT until someone holds it in hand and/or finds other images, mostly we can just speculate.

.
.
NOW imho, it is best i keep my opinion to myself. LOL - i would have bet money the scuff wasn't enough. alas it would be a bet i would be destined to lose!
.
.
@jesbroken tyvm for doing the due diligence.

@tradedollarnut : I contacted Danielle at TECC and she said it was indeed scuffs and offered an additional photo >at an angle which indeed shows the "S" mint mark.

BuffaloIronTail

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
imho, the scuff on the slab isn't significant enough to obscure the mm that severely so that we question whether it has one at all or not. BUT until someone holds it in hand and/or finds other images, mostly we can just speculate.

.
.
NOW imho, it is best i keep my opinion to myself. LOL - i would have bet money the scuff wasn't enough. alas it would be a bet i would be destined to lose!
.
.
@jesbroken tyvm for doing the due diligence.

@tradedollarnut : I contacted Danielle at TECC and she said it was indeed scuffs and offered an additional photo >at an angle which indeed shows the "S" mint mark.

WOW. What a difference an angle makes. Comments on pictures are always "iffy" because of this.

It's a given that we have no other choice but to judge what is put in front of us.

Pette

jesbroken

Single largest problem with Ebay is the seller's photo's, other than management decisions. lol
The seller either can't take photo's, doesn't know what to look for to begin with, or is hiding something, usually the latter. Some good sellers are so bad, I have bought many coins with terrible photo's that are great coins because I have a feel for the true look of the coin, then sometimes I'm fooled and it is what it is.
Jim

mbogoman

@amwldcoin said:
Ebay seems to be hit and miss on sales tax collections. I just had a $1000+ sale to California and sales tax was not collected.

On another note, ebay collected sales tax on me here in Ga. out of the blue when they hadn't in the past. Couple a phone calls and a few weeks later ebay paid me back the sales tax to my PayPal account!

@Connecticoin said:

@oreville said:
I found TDN comment about ebay sales tax more interesting. I think having to comply with sales tax rules hurts ebay. as I now look harder for out of state sellers not required to charge sales tax.

I wonder if ebay has any nexus in New York State requiring them to collect NYState sales tax?

Especially when ebay gets it wrong. I have been fighting with them to get rid of Conn sales tax on coins, which are tax exempt. Ebay (lazily and stupidly) claim they cannot exempt the coin category because it contains "bullion" items.

Also, I thought all coins over $1,000 were tax exempt in California, so is Ebay screwing that up too?

1) The sales tax over/under limit in California is $1500.

2) Ebay will not collect sales tax if the buyer is registered with them as an authorized re-seller.