The German grading system translated

neildrobertson

I have been collecting German coins for almost 10 years now. Over that time, I've slowly developed a familiarity with their grading system. I'm at the point where I probably buy more German coins from dealers and auctions that are graded via the German adjectival grading system than I do graded by PCGS or NGC. I thought I'd write out my take on the translation from the German system to the US Sheldon scale as I see it. I have seen a number of translations on dealer websites as well as the NGC website. I think they are all missing a few things, and probably over simplified.

I've found that a good understanding of the grading culture can help when navigating websites like MA-Shops. MA-Shops does have a built in English translation on their site, but the grading translation is kind of crude. I prefer to stay on the German side so I can see how coin grades and descriptions were written originally, before translation.

Here is a simple graphic I made showing general correlations between adjectives and grades, which I describe more at length below.

In the German system, there are 5 main adjectives: Gutes (G), Schoen (S), Sehr Schoen (SS), Vorzueglich (Vz), Stempelglanz (St). Those 5 adjectives frankly aren't enough for an adjectival grading system. You can see by the broad bands on my graphic that a single word covers a large swatch of grades. In practice, graders and dealers also include some additional nuances in language to further differentiate coins. People will commonly straddle grades, like writing S-SS, and Vz-St. To further differentiate, they will also use the word "fast", which is pretty equivalent to using "about" or "almost" in the US adjectival system. If a coin is fast Vz, then it is on the low side of Vz or nearly misses the cut of being Vz.

Some dealers will use the terms praegefrisch, or even bankfrisch. These are terms used to describe low to mid grade MS coins that are usually frosty. Think of baggy Morgan, and that's the territory. It's a coin that's uncirculated but has some defects due to handling. Sometimes this is used in lieu of vz-St. Sometimes this will even be used for gem coins, if the coin itself isn't particularly lustrous or has scuff marks.

A discussion of proofs could warrant its own post. The German term is Polierte Platte, or Polished Planchet. A proof is made with a planchet and die that are specially prepared. This is in contrast to a PL coin. On a PL coin, they might just say there was a polierte stempeln, or polished die because it was a well polished die striking a business planchet. Flashy, semi-PL, and prooflike coins are more commonly identified as Erstabschlag (EA), which translates to first strike. For modern German coins, the mint refers to coins we would call proof as Spiegelglanz (spgl, or mirror finish). Calling something a proof implies a certain purpose, whereas those coins are just high quality coins made en masse with mirror finishes for collectors. If you go back more than 50 years, the amount of documentation on proof coins is very limited, and the quality of such proofs can vary. Exercise caution if this is an area of collecting that interests you. Some research is required and some of NGC and PCGS's attributions are subject to debate.

Finally, can you use this knowledge for your own personal gain? Probably. It helps you avoid grading pitfalls and helps you get access to a whole other market. Much like in the US, if you are able to intelligably navigate the raw coin market, then you might be able to get some better deals than if you were just buying graded coins. However, we are at a point where quality coins are appreciated everywhere.

Scattered observations:

• Adjectival grading is in the eye of the beholder - This system requires that you get to know your dealer because everyone has their own take and, sometimes very strong, opinions on grading. Some dealers overgrade to almost criminal levels. Others will be more conservative. Some treat Stempelglanz in a similar way to how Americans treat MS70, as an unachievable ideal more than a grade.
• The AU to MS divide isn't really a divide - The German market doesn't differentiate AU and MS like the US market does. I believe this is part of the reason I see so many low MS graded coins showing up for sale in the US. There are some opportunities for geographic arbitrage with the different collecting cultures.
• Market grading is real - Ugly coins get down graded and attractive ones get upgraded. Coins get upgraded for being early die state more than the sheldon system would upgrade them. I don't have a problem with this because it addresses some of the weaknesses in the Sheldon system.
• Rims exist in Germany - US collectors and graders have a tendency to ignore rims, especially when they are completely shielded by gaskets in holders. A strong rim ding that could possibly straight grade in the US could render a coin totally undesirable in Germany. Edge lettering is very common on new and old coins, and people will pay attention to it.
• Krause has a grading offset - The Krause world coin catalog has prices for coins in MS60 and MS63 grades. The MS63 prices will often match prices in German catalogs for Stempelglanz coins, which are MS65 and better. The Krause catalog makes more sense when you look at the MS63 prices as MS65. I think something was lost in translation. I think MS60 more aligns with MS63 as well.
• Do not expect details coins to be called out for you - PVC is prevalent in Europe because vinyl holders were the most widely used holder in coin folders and binders for decades. PVC residue and damage is rarely called out by dealers. Cleaning and polishing will sometimes be called out.

pruebas

This is very useful. Thanks for posting it.

Germany is arguably the second largest numismatic market in the world, certainly the largest in Europe.

bidask

So which grading system is most strict ?

neildrobertson

@bidask said:
So which grading system is most strict ?

There is no such thing.

The sheldon grading system is more granulated and prescribed, which I think is generally better. Consistency and standardization is one of the most important things in grading. The only formal thing I've seen on the German side is a few pages in the front of the Jaeger catalog. That's nothing compared to the books that have been written in the US.

I think the German system is akin to what was prevalent in the US prior to the rise of the TPGs, without me having lived through it myself.

Some people praise conservative grading when they really should be praising consistent grading. I don't care what numbers or words you use, as long as it is consistent from coin to coin and over time.

Bjorn

@bidask said:
So which grading system is most strict ?

I think older UK when grading UK and Commonwealth coins. A coin with considerable mint lustre is a good VF. Most dealers here who deal in world coins will grade US coins using US grading though.

MyWorldCoinTypeSet

Good information.

Some additional details comparing German grading to US grading can be found on this MA shops help page. It seems pretty consistent with what you wrote above.

neildrobertson

@PBRat said:
Good information.

Some additional details comparing German grading to US grading can be found on this MA shops help page. It seems pretty consistent with what you wrote above.

I wrote this post because of comparisons like that. They just aren't detailed enough to go off of alone, and you can't quite have a 1:1 mapping. There is some overlap with adjectival grading. And they're missing a few things, like the concept of AU.

YQQ

German grading can be compared to a rubber band stretching.
Good bands can be stretched way beyond....
some time ago I contacted the German dealers association and asked specific questions about grading. and what they base their grade descriptions on.
here is the answer...............................kommt vielleicht noch...
H

Namvet69

Geschuntiet! And guten morgen y'all. Peace Roy

YQQ

Namvet69
did u mean Gesundheit?? ( health) or Gescheitheit, meaning cleverness?

I am being realistically
"yes, it is a nice day today" says the German dealer getting out of bed: Today we will have stretchday.
Meaning an already over graded coin will become an SS+ coin (" gutes sehr schoen" or VF30) grade will become a
-VZ , vorzueglich (EF- AU) grade or even a gutes vorzueglich (EF45-AU 55"). after all, I am the dealer, the person who decides." and who is to complain...??? lets look at an old US pricing scale now... oh AU 55 is just like MS 60. yhays it.. yhat is our price. lets give that sucker another 3 second dip. Looks like a perfect coin now. right? MS 60 now?? right.
Ok, I give you a break and knock 15 Euros off the price if you pay cash. the French use steel wool

Ok fellows, I am being a bit fictitious here, just a little bit, but just go through German/or other European listings and see for yourself... I had many personal verbal arguments with dealers in Germany, France and Holland about their grades and pricing. Back then, most used an "old world coins" catalogue and MS 60 pricing as the minimum.
However, there were and still are a few who are proud of their profession are correct and honest.
And that is where you get the best deals.

WCC

Nice write-up.

On the grading differences with the US, I consider a universal difference that the minor variations in quality between proximate numerical Sheldon grades haven't historically been important to collectors based elsewhere because the price level and price spreads are so much lower and narrower.

I suspect that at least some of any recent change is because these sellers are aware of US preferences.

I have only bought a few coins from German sellers but no German coins. I have bought more from British sellers (mostly auction firms) and have found inconsistency in the application.

Stella

Thanks for sharing. I actually recently purchased a raw coin in a German auction, so this is a timely topic!

Eddi

I have 'grown' > @YQQ said:

Namvet69
did u mean Gesundheit?? ( health) or Gescheitheit, meaning cleverness?

I am being realistically
"yes, it is a nice day today" says the German dealer getting out of bed: Today we will have stretchday.
Meaning an already over graded coin will become an SS+ coin (" gutes sehr schoen" or VF30) grade will become a
-VZ , vorzueglich (EF- AU) grade or even a gutes vorzueglich (EF45-AU 55"). after all, I am the dealer, the person who decides." and who is to complain...??? lets look at an old US pricing scale now... oh AU 55 is just like MS 60. yhays it.. yhat is our price. lets give that sucker another 3 second dip. Looks like a perfect coin now. right? MS 60 now?? right.
Ok, I give you a break and knock 15 Euros off the price if you pay cash. the French use steel wool

Ok fellows, I am being a bit fictitious here, just a little bit, but just go through German/or other European listings and see for yourself... I had many personal verbal arguments with dealers in Germany, France and Holland about their grades and pricing. Back then, most used an "old world coins" catalogue and MS 60 pricing as the minimum.
However, there were and still are a few who are proud of their profession are correct and honest.
And that is where you get the best deals.

This has been also my experience collecting coins in Germany for the last 35+ years. Very liberal particularly with regards to cleaned coins and hairlines. In auctions, you have to be very careful, and if you can, view the coins in person.

YQQ

Next time I come across an issue there, I will post it.

neildrobertson

@YQQ said:
Next time I come across an issue there, I will post it.

I will too. It can be a good reminder of the pitfalls of not having a clearly defined grading standard, regardless of what type of coins you like.

sliderule

Thanks, this is excellent and important to know.