A question regarding "carbon spots" or other dark toning spots

bagofnickels

Hi folks! Got a question for you. Above are pictures of a prospective coin for my collection. The coin checks all the boxes except for the several small dark spots. I have seen these referred to as "carbon spots." I have always thought of them as just dark spots of toning and nothing to worry about unless they negatively impact the eye appeal of a coin.

Is my line of thinking correct? Are these spots anything to worry about? This coin is in an OGH so I am wondering if these spots were there when it was graded or if they appeared in the last 15 or so years. Do spots like these "spread" or devalue a coin?

Thanks!

emeraldATV

Ditto ?
All of the above is very concerning in my camp also.
Chemistry research class, cool.

thefinn

They have eaten into the surface of the coin and can never be removed without damaging the coin's surface. Avoid coins with carbon spots like the plague, unless it is an extremely rare coin that rarely shows up on the market. They are hard to sell.

bagofnickels

@thefinn said:
They have eaten into the surface of the coin and can never be removed without damaging the coin's surface. Avoid coins with carbon spots like the plague, unless it is an extremely rare coin that rarely shows up on the market. They are hard to sell.

Interesting. Do they show up at any point in a coins life cycle? I see these on plenty of slabbed coins many of which with CAC stickers. Do the tpg just factor them into a coins overall grade?

thefinn

@bagofnickels said:

@thefinn said:
They have eaten into the surface of the coin and can never be removed without damaging the coin's surface. Avoid coins with carbon spots like the plague, unless it is an extremely rare coin that rarely shows up on the market. They are hard to sell.

Interesting. Do they show up at any point in a coins life cycle? I see these on plenty of slabbed coins many of which with CAC stickers. Do the tpg just factor them into a coins overall grade?

I don't know about it affecting the technical grade, but they do affect their desirability. They start as flyspecks but grow. They can start as something struck into the coin at the mint that continues to attract more matter, or can start when someone talks over a coin and it gets a hold. I have seen dark toning on coins from where there was a hole in the mylar in a 2x2, and gotten those off by pin-point tarnish removal, but carbon spots will not come off without digging them out, so they are best left alone. I avoid carbon spots unless I absolutely have to have the coin due to its rarity and my inability to find another in my lifetime. There are too many nice coins to buy something for a discount that I will always have to make excuses for.

Jimnight

I don't mess with coins with carbon spots.

bagofnickels

Dang. I really appreciate the replies. I will move on from this coin as its rarity is relatively low.

bagofnickels

Whats the best way to determine if what I'm looking at is a "carbon spot" to avoid or a small bag mark that's no big deal? Often times the marks im looking at are miniscule. Smaller than 1/10 the size of the above posted spots.

HalfDimeDude

I hate carbon spots esspecially on nickels, Ive have sent in nickels who were perfect ,only after a few yeas the carbon spots surface. Two sweet buffalos totally messed up in a slab....this proof Jefferson the same.
Yes you can soak the specimen and the spot may turn brownish....but its not gone,and over time their back. My policy has been for a few years now I wont buy a coin with carbon spots .
You cant be rid of them and they come back worse than before.

Bruce7789

I had read, somewhere that in some cases these are caused by saliva from coughing or even breathing while handling the coins outside of a protective cover. With my Morgan's, just in case this is true, I wear a clear, polycarbonate half mask when handling the coins in the "Raw" before encapsulating . I also started neutralizing all my Silver coins before sending them off for encapsulation with Acetone. Can't hurt and may help....?????

bagofnickels

Here are a few other pictures from other coins on my watch list. They have darks spots but I dont know if they're a carbon spot to be concerned about/avoid or a non factor. If anyone has any knowledge or thoughts about these i would absolutely appreciate hearing them. The more I research and learn the more I see problems on certified non problem slabbed coins that aren't enough to earn a details grade but are enough to reduce desirability. For what it is worth these are all MS65 coins.

thefinn

@Bruce7789 said:
I had read, somewhere that in some cases these are caused by saliva from coughing or even breathing while handling the coins outside of a protective cover. With my Morgan's, just in case this is true, I wear a clear, polycarbonate half mask when handling the coins in the "Raw" before encapsulating . I also started neutralizing all my Silver coins before sending them off for encapsulation with Acetone. Can't hurt and may help....?????

I wouldn't dip them in acetone. You may be removing a protective oil that was on it from the mint, thus presenting an active surface.

thefinn

@bagofnickels said:

Here are a few other pictures from other coins on my watch list. They have darks spots but I dont know if they're a carbon spot to be concerned about/avoid or a non factor. If anyone has any knowledge or thoughts about these i would absolutely appreciate hearing them. The more I research and learn the more I see problems on certified non problem slabbed coins that aren't enough to earn a details grade but are enough to reduce desirability. For what it is worth these are all MS65 coins.

Starting. Move on. The spots will always bother you.

Bruce7789

@Bruce7789 said:
I had read, somewhere that in some cases these are caused by saliva from coughing, sneezing, or even breathing while handling the coins outside of a protective cover. With my Morgan's, just in case this is true, I wear a clear, polycarbonate half mask when handling the coins in the "Raw" before encapsulating . I also started neutralizing all my Silver coins before sending them off for encapsulation with Acetone. Can't hurt and may help....?????

@thefinn said:>
I wouldn't dip them in acetone. You may be removing a protective oil that was on it from the mint, thus presenting an active surface.

AND may be removing any contaminants that were on them from before I got them. Haven't had any problems with dipped coins yet and don't have any "carbon" spots. All grade out at MS 63 or better!

But, thanks for the thought!

bagofnickels

These spots don't actually bother me at all. I really like the appearance of the original surface conditions on these coins. I like that they aren't just another super blast white coin. My worry is twofold: that the spots will spread or grow and that they won't be desirable to other collectors if
I decide to sell my collection ever. But im going to guess that if I am patient that ill be able to find both.

thefinn

@Bruce7789 said:

@Bruce7789 said:
I had read, somewhere that in some cases these are caused by saliva from coughing, sneezing, or even breathing while handling the coins outside of a protective cover. With my Morgan's, just in case this is true, I wear a clear, polycarbonate half mask when handling the coins in the "Raw" before encapsulating . I also started neutralizing all my Silver coins before sending them off for encapsulation with Acetone. Can't hurt and may help....?????

@thefinn said:>
I wouldn't dip them in acetone. You may be removing a protective oil that was on it from the mint, thus presenting an active surface.

AND may be removing any contaminants that were on them from before I got them. Haven't had any problems with dipped coins yet and don't have any "carbon" spots. All grade out at MS 63 or better!

But, thanks for the thought!

Good for you. As a dealer for 25+ years, and working in a mint, I’ve seen too many problems with cleaning. And an acetone dip is a form of surface adulteration.

kalu52

@bagofnickels said:
These spots don't actually bother me at all. I really like the appearance of the original surface conditions on these coins. I like that they aren't just another super blast white coin. My worry is twofold: that the spots will spread or grow and that they won't be desirable to other collectors if
I decide to sell my collection ever. But im going to guess that if I am patient that ill be able to find both.

Will the spot on these circulating coins persist over time, and could they impact how other collectors view them when selling your collection? Despite not bothering you currently, do you believe that patience will ultimately lead to collecting collectors who value the original surface conditions and unique appearance instead of pristine, super-blast white coins? thank you, sir,

derryb

Unless it is a modern issue that I want to have a perfect example of spotting does not bother me, it is simply a concentration of one of the trace metal elements used to make the planchet. spotting tells me the coin is authentic.