Strike Three Called!
countdouglas
Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
So, only the second game of the season, and Mike Trout is already in midseason form. Trailing 7-4 in the 5th inning on Friday night, the Angels had runners on first and second with one out, and Mike Trout representing the tying run coming to the plate. There should be no surprise to anyone what happened next!
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Fastball, changeup, fastball, changeup, fastball...I'm sure Trout was looking changeup again, but brilliant sequencing by Grandal calling the fastball, and perfect execution by Foster, and the ump rang him up! Strike three called! Nobody, and I mean nooooooo-body, takes more called third strikes in critical situations than Mike Trout. The only surprise to me was that they kept the ball down on him throughout the at bat, rather than work him up in the zone. Still had Mike watching it go by, though. And, of course, the Angels ended up losing the game.
Comments
You're right. The Angels would be so much better if they had somebody like Bill Buckner instead of suffering through all these years of Trout's incompetence. Game 1, where Trout scored a run and drove in another run and the Angels won by 1, was clearly a fluke. I mean, the Angels are two games into the season and Trout has already failed to get on base twice. Twice! The Angels are doomed with a bum like that.
Don't reply. Just. Stop. You're embarrassing yourself.
I can't wait to see how many times he gets rung up this year. I love seeing that stupid look on his face! 😂😂
No, I've been very consistent in my observation that Mike Trout is not a winning player. He takes waaay too many called strike 3s for a "superstar". I know you love that he avoids the double play that way, but the team really needs him to swing the bat.
Go check out the results from August 14 to August 26, 2020. Mike Trout got called out on strikes 11 times in those 13 games, with the Angels going 3-10. Maybe a few wins there, and the playoff monkey is off his back. You need to actually watch a game sometime. You actually embarrass yourself with some of the nonsense you spout by just crunching numbers on a computer.
I attended the University of Missouri with hundreds of baseball blowhards from St. Louis just like you. Just close your eyes and keep whispering to yourself, "We're the best fans in baseball...we're the best fans in baseball...we're the best fans in baseball..."
We will be revisiting Mike Trout's called strike 3 occurrences in this thread all year.
You mean this one?
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This might be the next Great sports forum Debate 🤷♂️
Those days would have been better spent learning to tie your own shoes than watching a sport you very clearly don't understand. I'll believe you that Trout had a bad stretch on those days, and I'll wager every other player in the history of the game has had a bad stretch at some point in their career, too. Mike Trout has been responsible for winning more baseball games than any other player over the past decade. To watch Mike Trout and only notice the bad at bats is inane, not to mention difficult since there are so few. That you posted only about game 2, and about the single time Trout failed to reach base, while not at least mentioning that he won game 1 makes to so obvious that your thoughts on Trout are both misleading and worthless.
Thank you for the warning; now I can put you on ignore before being subjected to another insult to my intelligence (and, I hope, everyone else's).
All right, time to recap game number 3.
I'm only going to post this at bat because someone will inevitably try to point to some borderline pitch and say, "Trout was hosed on that call!"
First inning, down in the count 0-2, Mike takes what should clearly be strike 3. It was called a ball, and given new life, ended up working hard in that at bat for a walk. Now, the statheads will get all giddy and somehow point to OBP when making their case. Those of us watching the games know just how lucky he was in this at bat.
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The next 2 at bats, Trout couldn't handle Lance Lynn's heat, and struck out swinging both times. Hey, I give him props for at least trying, because the Mike Trout we all know and love was about to make his appearance leading off the 8th inning, with his team down 3-2. Just the type of situation that makes Mike choke on his lunch, and of course, he didn't disappoint...
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STRIKE THREE, CALLED!
The hat trick, 3 strikeouts in the game, and only the favorable call in the first inning preventing what what could/should have been the ol' Golden Sombrero.
See ya all again next time!
Oh, tough game Mike.
It's not that Mike Trout has the occasional bad game. It's not that he has the occasional bad at bat. It's not that he doesn't get on base, instead making an out. It's not even that he has at bats where he strikes out.
It's the weird proclivity of a player as accomplished as Mike Trout to just stand there and take a CALLED strike three in those situations. It's just weird, and it's been going on for quite awhile, and it just gets glossed over.
Very strange indeed. You would think he would at least take a swing at it instead of standing there like an idiot. It's a huge weakness in his game.
You know how MLB came up with a way to speed up the game, where instead of throwing 4 intentional balls, the manager could just hold up 4 fingers and the batter could take his base?
Maybe MLB should Institute a new rule where if it's late in the game, the Angels are trailing, and Mike Trout is due up, Joe Maddon could just hold up 3 fingers, give Trout the strikeout, and save us all the time of watching him look at 3 pitches right over the plate.
it's a Human Truth that if you focus on the negative that aspect increases. conversely, if you focus on the positive that increases.
the count clearly hates Mike Trout so it's really easy to see the negative things he does or his flaws. overall, he one of the best players in MLB and has been for most of his career. I don't think he's the problem, the problem is that piss-poor organization known as the Angels. why oh why Trout stays there is a mystery, he should have shed that Team like a bad habit when he had the chance, it has been a career killer for him. he's more than likely a HOF first ballot entry but he won't have much but his personal stats entering with him.
let him go, Angels.
100% with you on this one dallas!
Trout not swinging at borderline pitches isn't a problem. Anyone who understands hitting knows that on these pitches he's likely to not get great contact and probably make an out. Just as smart to let it go and hope for a walk.
The guy hits 40 HR a year with a .582SLG, with an OPS of 1.000. He has been in the top 2 for MVP 7 times and people still find something to bitch about.
Some idiots used to complain that Ted Williams refused to swing at borderline pitches, he was supposed to swing at "bad" pitches to "help his team" instead of taking walks.
It's not just the borderline pitches that he lets go by, though. He had numerous at bats last year that lasted only 3 pitches and all 3 were well over the plate and in the strike zone. A guy just standing there taking pitches and hoping for a walk sounds like a 12 year old that I used to know before I realized that I needed glasses.
Thank you for confirmation that I am not the only one whose intelligence is being insulted by the count. Every baseball player ever has had more "bad" at bats than "good" ones. A thread about the "bad" at bats of Mike Trout will be shorter than such a thread about almost anyone else's - because he has fewer of them - but still completely pointless. My guess is that the "point" being made is that Trout only gets a hit, or on base, when it doesn't matter, but when there are runners on base and/or the game is on the line he chokes. But Trout has led the league in Win Probability Added five times (so far) and (not that it means anything after just two games) he's in the top 10 this year as he has been every year. He is, beyond any shadow of any doubt, the greatest player of our time, he is in the conversation for the greatest player of all time, and it is extremely insulting that anyone might think for a moment that I, or any of the fine people here, could believe this nonsense.
I for one am looking forward to seeing how many times he gets rung up this year. It seems to me like the supposed "greatest player of all time" would at least go down swinging. At least have the guts to take a hack at it. Mike Trout couldn't hold Secretariat's feed bag!
GOSH! It's almost like sports fans seem to focus on really good players who just happen to play in the Los Angeles area and dump on them. Can anyone say.....Jared Goff? Now it's Mike Trout. It's a beautiful day here in La La Land. Blue sky, a little dusting of snow on the mountains, topping out at 78°. Rev up the barbeque! Happy Easter!
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In response to a previous post about the quality of the Angels organization; The organization gives the fans exactly what it wants. In the case of Angel fans it's not much. I haven't been to a game in over ten years mainly because the fans are not watching the game. It's just a big party with people eating gross nachos and swilling beer. Its impossibe to focus on the game.
The game on the field is secondary if that. With the exception of the Wally Joyner era it's ALWAYS been that way at Angel games. In the 60's and 70's half the crowd was listening to the Dodger game on their radios and the other half was just there to check out the California girls who were prancing around. That was my buddies and me. The teams were awful and nobody cared. Also a huge part of every Angel game is composed of people on vacation to Disneyland. They're not interested in the game either. Just a party. A loud drunk outdoor party with fantastic Orange Co. weather as an added bonus.
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What on Earth does this even mean? Ted Williams played his entire career "in a self induced stupor"? I suspect your post is insulting our intelligence, but if you agree that Trout is, obviously and by a mile and a half, the greatest player of the past decade then I just don't understand why you would describe a GOAT candidate in this way.
It's a very similar crowd at Rams games. But because I'm a Rams fanatic with season tickets I go to every game. But.....I wear ear plugs so I can concentrate on the game. As a Midwesterner this might interest you. At every Rams game there are at least as many fans there for the visiting team as there are Rams fans. Probably more. When the Packers were here a couple of years ago the place was a sea of green jerseys. I never saw so many blond ladies in my life! Same every game. They come to SoCal for the game and make a vacation out of it. Disneyland, the beach, etc. The Hydrant family bought 10 season tickets at the new stadium. My sons have 4 of those tickets on the market for fans of the visiting team. It's not enough. They tell me they might not even go to the games anymore because they can make big bucks selling the tickets to visiting fans. By the way, the weather here during football season is the best of the year. It's a BIG draw for people who live in the cold Midwest!
Since we will be revisiting this thread all season, due to Mike Trout getting rung up repeatedly, we might as well get a hot dog vendor up in here, we'll be needing a snack break in between strike outs.
I'm not sure fans realize that even the very best hitters are held to useless value as a hitter for several games throughout the year. It is the nature of the sport.
In today's games especially, high strikeout totals are the norm. Nearly half the pitchers in the league have the arsenal of Nolan Ryan now, and a lot of them are bigger too. There will be strikeouts.
I laugh how fans get mad at MLB players for not 'pulling the trigger' against a 96 MPH fastball with movement, while also having to defend against ungodly off speed pitchers. 99.9 percent of those same fans would crap the bed against that arsenal.
Reminds me of the dad who rides his kid in little league because the kid is struggling, then you put a batting T at home plate and ask the dad to hit one over the fence and then he 'tops' six swings in a row.
However, the notion of Trout looking for a walk like the last hitter on a little league team? If he is only looking for a walk, then how does he hit all of those home runs?
There are couple posters on this thread that love batting average and hitters who get hits in important times.
Mike Trout has a lifetime .319 batting average with runners in scoring position, and a .616 slugging percentage with runners in scoring position. For comparison, George Brett only sits at .307 and .487 with RISP.
Clearly doing FAR more damage than Brett, and against tougher pitchers, and people love Brett! Don't have to even look at the OB% as Trout is doing more than Brett not even counting the walks. Brett taps out to the pitcher and second base more, and Trout strikes out more. Difference there is nothing.
.319/.616 for Trout against tougher pitching.. .307/.487 for Brett. If you think Brett is a good hitter, then Trout has to be a God.
Yes, 159 more Angels games. I'm looking forward to tuning in to watch every single one of them. Any bets on the over/under for the total number of times Trout gets rung up looking? 50? 60? 75? I'll be sure to report every single one of them to those of you that can't, or won't, you know, actually watch the games.
Do you contemplate how much better his numbers would look if Trout didn't give that many at bats away? Do you wonder how many more games the Angels would win if Mike actually cared to try?
Sort of like the Carson Wentz saga. Should be interesting.
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Anyone that is insulted is free to avoid this thread. Since not many people on the sports talk forum actually watch Mike Trout play, I just thought I'd provide a service where I alert them to his propensity to take called third strikes, particularly in critical situations. This is not a new phenomenon with him, as it's been occurring repeatedly for years. Because of media bias and misinformation, many have told me they were not previously aware of this glaring shortcoming.
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Trout is a hitting God compared to all but a small handful of hitters in the history of the game. You have to feel pity for anyone who can watch baseball for the past 10 years and miss seeing it.
As long as you're not confusing anything you've said here with anything related to how great a hitter Trout is, then OK. I still don't understand why anyone would focus on how bad Trout's teammates are when discussing Trout himself, but it is certainly true that Trout's teammates are, and have always been, putrid. I'll also point out that making it to a World Series is not something any individual player ever "accomplished". Trout has never "experienced" it, but it is the Angels who have never "accomplished" it, despite the GOAT level contributions of Trout trying to get them there.
Simple point of reference. I actually am a fan of George Brett. Just highlights how good Trout is. If anyone views Brett as great, then Trout dwarfs Brett as a hitter.
It is a fact that pitchers throw harder now, and more have the arsenal of Nolan Ryan now, than they did back when Ryan was playing. Clearly a fact.
They throw harder now than as recent as the early 2000's. With command and the requisite off speed pitches. That is one of the reasons why strikeouts have gone up. Nearly every pitcher coming out of the pen is throwing 95+ consistently...and they are physically tall.
Although, I'm still waiting for GoldenAge to recognize George Brett being made by KC astroturf just like he recognized Santo as being a product of Wrigley. With their extreme home/road splits, Either they both are the products of their stadium, or they are both not. Can't have it both ways.
I know fans don't like to admit that players are getting better, and are getting better than players from their time. I'm from that time back then, but pitchers are filthier now than ever. Yes, I watch the games and see these guys parade out to the mound one at a time: six foot five, 97 MPH. Command. Like it is a never ending stream.
Nobody likes studies that refute what they feel or what may relegate a childhood hero to a lesser standing...but pitchers are throwing harder, have better command, and are taller. Strikeouts naturally rise when facing more pitchers like that.
Starters just don't throw as many innings now...but it is not as far off from the 1980's as people make it out to be. Much farther off than 1911. Thing is, there are now guys in the pen that are even better than most starters and are utilized differently than in different eras. It isn't like way back when where the guy in the pen was someone not good enough to start. These guys are absolutely filthy.
No doubt that baseball has looked for more home run hitters to score runs and that has contributed to the strikeouts too. It is muli pronged.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-velocity-surge-has-plateaued/
Rip a HOFer all you want if it makes you feel better.
Did Mike Trout steal your girlfriend or something?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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Reggie Jackson struck out 1 out of every 4 at bats - in the World Series. If your concept of baseball says that striking out is worse than making an out in any other way, then you simply don't understand the game. If your concept of baseball says that striking out looking is worse than striking our swinging, then the universe of what you don't understand is so vast that it includes baseball, all other sports, arithmetic, and yarn.
This thread is physically painful. I will excuse myself.
No, just like I was shocked that no one on the forum was aware of the puddle variation on the 75 Yount until I pointed it out, I'm equally surprised that no one notices the puddle in the batter's box when Mike Trout is facing late game pressure situations. We're here to share our knowledge with each other.
159 games to go. Anyone want to take a stab at how many called 3rd strikes Trout ends up with this year?
You go on and on about how great he is. I don't care that he makes an out, that happens. I don't care that he strikes out, that happens. It's just rediculous how easy of an out that he is in those situations. He doesn't even try. He knows that an elite starter or elite reliever is going to pound the upper part of the strike zone with heat, and that's his weakness, so he just takes unless they throw a mistake. When he faces a scrub that thinks they can sneak one by down and in, then he pounces. If you actually watched the games, you'd see it clear as day.
Speaking of, time to tune in to the Angels- White Sox.
If your posts about Trout didn't sound so ridiculous, people might take you a bit more seriously.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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This would suggest that _anyone _is taking this thread seriously.
This is actually a valid critique of Trout. For his career, he's got a career .877 OPS in late & close situations. That's still good - not elite - but it's over 12% lower than his career 1.000 OPS. He also has an average of just .248 in those situations. However much he walks, that average is terrible.
Game number 4.
Nothing to report.
Bottom of the 9th, tie game, winning run on base, down 1-2 in the count, Mike Trout went down swinging. I would normally give him a lot of credit for effort.
Dallas tells me, though, that a swinging strikeout in the 9th inning of a tie game with the winning run on base is actually no different than taking a called third strike in the 9th inning of a tie game with the winning run on base.
I don't think so, though. I disagree. I don't think that a swinging strikeout in the 9th inning of a tie game with the winning run on base is nearly as bad as taking a called third strike in the 9th inning with the winning run on base.
So, I'm not going to alter the integrity of my count just to satisfy the masses.
Mike Trout still has only been called out on strikes 2 times this season, for those keeping track.
There is nothing to take (or not take) seriously. I'm only documenting in this thread a game by game result of how many times Mike Trout gets called out on strikes, especially in late game pressure situations, throughout the 2021 season. It's like saying that no one takes the box score seriously. Or no one takes MLB.com seriously. He either goes down looking, or he doesn't. It's historical record. It's fact. I'm just shining a light on it.
I've paid close attention to his career, and know it's going to be a lot. The rest of you guys arguing about how much it matters, I'll leave that to you. If the Angels somehow ever make the playoffs again, you'll realize how much it matters then.
Thank you for the report, please keep us informed on the latest developments. It is a very interesting thread.
You should probably be pounding on the door of Angels management and directing your anger there. Or maybe encourage them to sign Gary Matthews again and give him another 25 million to roam the outfield, lol.
Other then that, you may have stumbled onto a new evaluative tool. Simply ignore any positive contribution and focus solely on their failures.
You can 'shine the light' this coming year on every Tom Brady incomplete pass and finally find a way to make him look bad.
Or end the Jordan/Lebron debate and show us a diagram of every missed shot Lebron has this year and there will be a lot of them.
There is a reason why those elite starters can do that...its because they are elite starters. They have the ability/stuff to exploit the weakness of all hitters better than non-elite starters, thats why they are elite.
They are striking everyone out in MLB on a record pace, and these hitters are ALSO ridiculously great. Tremendous eyes, tremendous power. When pitchers are six foot five, throw 98 with command, and have ungodly off speed pitches, it is like facing a Nolan Ryan every night, except it is a Nolan Ryan with command.
How many hitters out there are destroying ALL elite pitchers on a CONSISTENT basis? Obviously can't be many, otherwise the 'elite' starters wouldn't be elite.
Who in MLB today is consistently doing what you are asking of Trout? Whatever it is you are asking of Trout?
How many hitters in MLB from 2010-2021 have a .319 AVG with RISP and .600+ SLG percentage with runners in scoring position, and also don't strike out??
What do you want Trout to do? You want him to hit .305 and slug .600 and reduce his strikeouts to 50 a year?
Or do you want him to strike out less, make more contact, and have a .333 AVG and .700 SLG percentage every year?
Who else in MLB is doing anything like that today against that pitching? Not just one year, but consistently for at least 3,000 at bats? Last season's MVP's won the award for their hitting alone and they are both prolific strikeout hitters for their career.
Jose Altuve is closest hitter to what you are looking for with a lifetime .311 average, but he only averages 17 home runs per 162...and even HE strikes out 83 times per 162 games.
Everyone strikes out. Mike Trout strikes out. But three times in one inning. Gawd
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Ralph
How do you watch last night's Angels game with Ohtani throwing 101 with nasty breaking pitches, making Jose Abreu look like a little leaguer...and then not understand why these guys are striking out so much in MLB? Then get mad when Trout strikes out and ignore the positive hitting stuff that he does better than anyone else in the game?
On the flip side, the hitters are sooo good now, that they still CAN hit home runs and even hit .270 against that arsenal of pitches being thrown at them around MLB.
The days of stringing three hits together to score runs is gone. It is hard to do that against the pitchers throwing that kind of stuff with command. Sure, it will still happen from time to time, but it didn't happen against Ryan, so why should it happen against pitchers now throwing the same stuff as Ryan? ...except that now there are ten times more of those guys around the league now, with more command than Ryan, and taller. Ryan's stuff was a freak back then. Now its the norm.
You can't swing at borderline pitches and be successful. When you were 12 years old you could, but you can't do that every night against guys that are six foot five and throwing 96 on the corners. What on earth do you think you are going to do with those pitches? Your best best is hitting the ones in the strike zone very hard.
Yet Trout averages 39 home runs per 162 games and is still over .300 average for his career...and that isn't even including all the walks on top of that.
I ask, who else in MLB is doing that right now??? Don't shoot me a name from 80 years ago, the pitching wasn't like that. Don't shoot me a name from 40 years ago as pitching league wide wasn't like that and those guys struck out all the time from guys like Ryan who WERE like that. There just weren't as many guys like Ryan around the league as there is now.
Don't even shoot a name from 20 years ago as league wide the pitching was not even like it is now. Just look at the MPH charts I linked above. This is fact.
Who is doing that now!? Who is consistently hitting .300 with elite power and only striking out 50 times a year? Nobody.
You have to hit home runs now more than ever to score runs, because the pitchers are too good and their stuff is too good to allow multiple hits in a row.
On the flip side, the hitters are soo good now that even the 8th place hitters are legit threats to hit home runs. There are no longer any Freddie Patek's runing around where when they come up there is zero threat for a home run and you can pitch accordingly. Yet the league was filled with guys like that in the 1970's and that is part of the reason why those pitchers threw more complete games. You aren't throwing as many complete games when you have to work on a 7th place hitter like he is a cleanup hitter because if you make a mistake he will hit it into the seats.
Someone mentioned Palmer etc... Yeah he is a HOFer, but lets face it, I would much rather hit off of Palmer than Scherzer or Verlander. They throw as hard as Ryan and with much better command than Palmer. They threw harder then Palmer, have better command, and better breaking pitches, and are taller(which if you know baseball that doesn't need explaining). So as much as I loved Palmer back in the day, or Blyleven, etc....they don't match up to these guys, complete games or not...because they would not be completing games agains these lineups.
And if Blyleven was giving up 38 home runs a year with a league half filled with Pateks, Mendoza, Bowa, etc....imagine how many he gives up when the 8th place hitter can hit the ball 400 feet against 98 MPH pitching like they can now??
Even though I am a product of yesteryear, I have no problem recognizing these monsters on the mound and what they bring. They come out of the bullpen. Six foot five. 225 pounds. 95 MPH. Command. Then the next guy comes in. Same thing. It is ridiculous.
Its time for everyone to take their old man lumps and just admit it. The players are better now. Nobody likes seeing a guy strike out, but if you truly see why they are striking out so much now, you understand a little more.