Is it safe to allow full capacity crowds at sporting events?
doubledragon
Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
Is it safe yet to allow full capacity crowds at sporting events? The Texas Rangers announced that once the season starts, they would allow a sellout crowd of 40,518 at Globe Life Field. So, is it safe, or do we need to wait?
0
Comments
Put it this way, if I was nervous about getting Covid I would not attend a game until most of the country has been vaccinated. I’m not getting the Vaccine nor am I afraid of it so I would attend therefore it’s a personal decision in my opinion and one that individuals should be allowed to make on their own
No.
my thoughts are very close to perks on this one. while it may or may not be a smart or safe thing to do, people should be allowed the choice. people are allowed to do lots of things that could harm them or others like drink alcohol or smoke cigs or pot. while I wouldn't put myself or my family in that full capacity stadium, it is not my place to tell anyone else they should not. we all have a choice.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Should people have the choice to wear safety belts in cars, or should there be a law mandating it for public safety ?
I'm still dealing with the after effects of Covid as everyone here knows. I've had it since last March 2020.
So I know how devastating this thing is. The Chicago Blackhawks won't come out and say it, but Jonathan Toews can't
play hockey this year because he's a long hauler like me. Many healthy people are still struggling with this disease.
I know you all know this, but this isn't just a flu. It's a monster if you get infected with the more dangerous strand, even to healthy people. I don't have any enemies, but if I did, I would never wish this on anyone.
sometimes each of needs to see past our own noses and make a small sacrifice for others, as difficult as that can be in today's "ME" society.
these are tough questions. i think it comes down to ones idea of personal liberty and what it means. I think for minors, seatbelts should be mandatory. Minors cannot make legal decisions for themselves and their brains have not developed enough to make well informed decisions.
seat belts are a good example. so are helmets for motorcycles. at what point should peoples power to make decisions for themselves ( however bad they may be) be curtailed? I would say it should be when it impacts others ability for personal liberty. should the use of alcohol be outlawed or curtailed to ones own home? what about a persons daily caloric intake?
that is not to say that private enterprise, such as insurance companies should not have the ability to restrict coverage to those who refuse to wear seat belts or helmets. perhaps people would make more informed decisions when considering seatbelts, helmets or alcohol intake if they knew that in the case of catastrophic accident their health insurance would not cover. as far as making legislative decisions? I don't think so.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Alexander Povetkin the heavyweight boxer was in the hospital this past December with Covid, and he fought Dillian Whyte this past weekend. On the way to the ring, you could tell Povetkin wasn't right, he was walking real slow and looked physically terrible. Povetkin is a beast of a fighter normally, and he had already knocked out Whyte in a previous fight. Well, Povetkin got in the ring and Whyte annihilated him. Povetkin just looked horrible, and there is much speculation that him having had Covid was the reason.
It's a case by case thing for sure.
With the ballpark situation, it's the case of greedy owners wanting to let everyone in to make money, while putting public safety on the line. A lot of people have no idea how dangerous this virus is. I'm not against these people. Lots of people mocked the virus and then were dead a few weeks later.
Back in March the CDC put out a message that if you were healthy, you would have flu like symptoms for a week and then you'd be back to normal. Can I sue the CDC now, because I can't drive anywhere after a year, nor be in a car without medicine because of this virus ? I have severe motion sickness because the inflammation is still in my head and vestibular system. Jonathan Toews probably has the inflammation still in his heart or lungs. Erod from the Red Sox has tachycardia and was out all last year. Not sure if he's going to be back this year.
To those who are healthy, you're just as at risk as everyone else. Don't think for a second you're not. I am 56, a former athlete who still exercises every day. No drinking, smoking, a huge health food eater. I just happened to be in a place where I breathed in a lot of someone's coughing back in March when he thought it was allergies. Well we both got very sick.
So in this baseball case the owners are greedy, and some of the public may not understand that they could be getting on
the Titanic. If it were my decision, I would say either do 25% capacity, or have a testing system in place with mask wearing if you want 50% or more capacity.
Unless you plan on kissing a stranger on the lips at the game, or very close contact, etc, it is very difficult to contract this disease when outdoors or in a well ventilated area such as a large supermarket.
In an enclosed area with little ventilation, the odds increase of catching it. So when you go inside to the bathroom, presume the place is infected, and don't touch your eyes, inner nose, inner ear, or mouth with your hands. If for example your nose itches, scratch it with a tissue and immediately discard the tissue. Always remember that your fingers are your worst enemy to transmit this virus. Wash your hands thoroughly when leaving the bathroom.
Frankly, if you're very elderly or have a compromised immune system, it's advisable to simply watch the games on TV.
All good points, and bring your own food too, if they allow you to. If the vendor coughs on your beer, then you're drinking the virus. They even found live active strands of the virus in sewer waste days after people flushed.
For those of you who think you have a great immune system, is yours any better than mine, or Jonathan Toews, or Erod's ?
I doubt it. Your immune system is no match for certain strands of this virus.
My dad and son have to take me food shopping. I can't travel. I can't work, but don't have to. I have to be driven everywhere while on medication that makes me drowsy. If you want to possibly live the rest of your life either not being able to go anywhere, or possibly not being able to walk up your stairs in your house without getting winded, then by all means go to a ball game. You have the freedom to do it.
Freddie Freeman 2020 NL MVP and Dustin Johnson 2020 Masters champion both had covid.
@Goldenage I respect and can empathize with your opinions. Myself and my family had covid. My wife almost died early in our marriage from tuberculosis. My mother in law has had significant respiratory issues for years. And I live In Texas forty minutes from that stadium. But I clicked "Agree" on what @perkdog said nonetheless.
MLB announced it's first COVID postponement. It ain't over, folks...
As a season ticket holder to that other sport soccer I'm anxiously waiting for full capacity games back at Mercedes Benz. Got the first home game last year and kaput.
The thing is folks need to be smart. If you feel sick, don't go. If you fear the thing, don't go. If you don't feel sick and aren't afraid of catching it...go for it and be mindful of other folks being risky. The whole past year was catered to folks not being smart..at least GA opened back up pretty quick and got folks back up and rolling to some degree. I work with folks all over the USA and the world and the lockdown stories are just mind boggling and causing a lot of mental health degradation.
^^^^ this.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
fwiw, I'm literally at a professional outdoor sporting event as I type this. a PGA tournament. supposed to be 5000 max. I got barked at by a volunteer no less than 10 minutes ago for not having my mask over my face when no one else was around. and mind you, I live in a state where the governor lifted the mask mandate.
everyone view this virus differently, and dare I say there is still lots of confusion
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Vaccinate the old people. Vaccinate those with existing health conditions. Then back to normal. Otherwise the cure is worse than the disease.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
I agree ! I am sick and tired of other people deciding what I should or shouldn't do It's my life to make my own decisions.
Yes, I decided to have the shots but it was because my wife is so sick I did not want to be the cause of her getting sicker BUT IT WAS MY DECISION not someone else's.
As a healthy non senior citizen I feel I'm more likely to die in a car crash from one of the many awful drivers on the road than from covid. I still got the vaccine because it is easier to prevent a death with the vaccine than it is to re-teach everyone how to drive responsibly and prevent deaths that way. The same can be said for the many other preventable causes of death such as bad eating and exercise habits. Those kill more people than covid but a little harder to eradicate.
I wear a seatbelt too because that is such an easy solution. It isn't going to save me in some cases, but it will in others. I learned as a passenger as a teenager when I got a ribcage full of dashboard and we were only going 25 MPH on a side street.
As for being afraid of putting something in my body like a vaccine, we have been putting crap in our bodies our whole life and probably don't even realize it, so wasn't worried about the shot.
There does have to be a point where society just says F it and take their chances, because we can't live on lockdown style for 20 years and 'die' slowly that way.
There will always be people afraid of getting sick, but I would rather take my chances living a full free life than be on restrictions for 20 years, vaccine or not.
Not much different than jumping in bed with someone...you could catch something, but damn, the payoff is worth it. Just have to be smart about it.
All that being said, I don't want to be the guy who passes it onto a kid who has a compromised immune system and they die. I would save a kids life if they were about to get hit by a car, so I figure I wouldn't mind taking the tiny risk of getting a vaccine if it meant it does save someone else.
In general, I agree.
HOWEVER...
The thing with COVID is that, if the game turns into a super-spreader event, you end up with hospitals getting overwhelmed. And that impacts people who didn't go to the game and need care for COVID or something else.
.
no one is advocating attending soccer games willy nilly , frankly its very insensitive of you to even suggest it
as a nation haven't we endured enough?
I'm all about some willy nilly action after the past year, bring it! HA!
If it was up to me we would have been no worse off with Covid. We would have avoided many other maladies such as mental illness, increased poverty, emotional distress among others. I said protect those who need it most THEN open up. States that have opened are not worse off than those still on lockdown. BTW I hate it when they say "We are all in this together." No we are not. 99.99% of young people have mild symptoms. Old people and those with health problems make up the vast majority of deaths. Reminds me of a conversation between the chicken and the pig. Chicken says the farmer says he wants bacon and eggs for breakfast. Chicken says we know what we must do, we are in this together. Pig says that may not be accurate.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
I believe a large part of this problem is folks truly understanding what is a compromised immune system.
The elderly know the risks and usually act accordingly.
Folks normally think of someone with a compromised immune system as a cancer survivor or whatever. However, someone who smokes, drinks, uses recreational drugs, consumes a poor diet, etc...that person also has a compromised immune system because of their unhealthy lifestyle. They are much more susceptible to covid than someone choosing a healthy lifestyle. That person with the unhealthy lifestyle should stay away from attending the games.
If you do attend the games, it is advisable not to drink alcohol before, during, or after the game for as long a period of time as possible. Alcohol in the body lowers the immune system, and if infected at the game, you want your immune system as strong as possible in order to help fight off and defeat covid before it takes a strong hold.
If the leagues are serious about covid, they will not serve beer at the games. But i have little illusion about that happening.
Bingo!
Read “State of Fear” by Michael Crichton. That’s all you need to know about the media and this since 1945.
And I’m not taking away from anyone that’s been sick. I sympathize, truly I do.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Alcohol is the great miracle drug, it makes everyone stronger and makes the women better looking.
I drink, I've been sick once in the past few years, it kills viruses in my body...ha!
This is where so many are uniformed. Did Eduardo Rodriguez miss a year of MLB baseball because he had "mild symptoms" ? Is Jonathan Toews of the Chicago Blackhawks missing an entire season of hockey because of "mild symptoms'?
You do realize this is a life changing disease for many young people ?
If you are still not sure, please read this article. If you aren't convinced, I have a hundred others I could copy and paste.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/young-people-are-risk-severe-covid-19-illness-n1240761
Here's the 37 year old Ohio man mocking wearing a mask and then died from Covid.
https://www.fox5dc.com/news/ohio-man-dies-of-covid-19-after-sharing-anti-mask-posts-on-social-media-slamming-virus-hype
Did you read the article Brick ? He was 37, young and healthy. He's one of your 99.99 percenters.
Back in March of 2020 the CDC said I would just have a little cold for two weeks.
They were dead wrong. My life is totally changed.
Imagine being 22 years old and for a full year can't make it up the stairs without losing your breath because your
lungs are so inflamed. You can't work. Getting out of bed is a chore in itself.
There is no cure for this. You're stuck, and life as you knew it may never resume as there has never been a cure
for a viral infection.
Listen, I'm not against people who feel the way you do. I'm just not sure you understand the reality of this virus and
how easily it is transmitted and how easily it can kill healthy young adults, or ruin them.
The Big 10 cancelled their football season because 30-35% of their athletes who contracted Covid had myocarditis from it.
These athletes have great immune systems, or they don't ?
You don't understand that your immune system is no match for this virus if you get too much of it, or you get the nasty strand of it.
"When we looked at our COVID-positive athletes, whether they were symptomatic or not, 30 to roughly 35 percent of their heart muscles [were] inflamed," Wayne Sebastianelli, Penn State's director of athletic medicine, said earlier this week during a State College Area School District Board of Directors meeting. "And we really just don't know what to do with it right now. It's still very early in the infection. Some of that has led to the Pac-12 and the Big Ten's decision to sort of put a hiatus on what's happening."
Myocarditis is the inflammation of the heart muscle, which can reduce the ability of the heart to pump, causing rapid or abnormal heart rhythms that in rare cases can lead to a stroke or heart attack. A viral infection, like COVID-19, typically causes myocarditis. Signs and symptoms include chest pain, fatigue and shortness of breath, though it often goes undetected.
I took a look at your link. it was published back in September, so there is probably new data since then. it seems that 5% of cases were of young adults 18-34. of those cases, 21% needed hospitalization, 10% required vents and 2.7% died.
of the 5% of young adult cases, Results also showed that the risks of dying or needing mechanical ventilation were more than double in young adult patients who were either morbidly obese or had hypertension.
while I realize there are lots of individual cases that have turned out very badly for people, including young people, it sure seems that of the small amount of total cases who were 18-34, the majority of those who needed vents or perished were obese or had other underlying issues.
I also understand that even some pro athletes have had terrible aftereffects like those mentioned above. it seems though, that those are the outliers.
the crux of the argument is really a risk assessment. are strong measures to stay home, not gather, not work, not in person educate worth the alternative of more people being at risk? should people be allowed to take that risk as citizens of a free country?
is a 2.7% mortality rate justification for these measures? does the information that over half of that mortality rate is comprised of already unhealthy individuals matter?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Everyone should have the freedom to do what they want ?
Should we all have the freedom to drive drunk ?
Just like the healthy 37 year old Ohio guy with a great immune system who was so against wearing a mask and
died from Covid because he believed in his freedom.
Just like all the people who die in car accidents not wearing seat belts because of their freedom.
Yeah, you have the freedom to go to a full capacity ballpark if you'd like.
But don't sit here and tell me that 99.99% of the people attending are going to go back
to life the way they knew it after that mass gathering.
Many healthy people will die and many will have life changing illnesses.
I'm not against large gatherings. Have a good time.
No offense at all and i of course wish you as speedy of a recovery as possible. But i think you may have actually made my point.
I used to party with the football team fraternity at Penn State. They were the biggest partiers i've ever seen. Suffice to say that massive amounts of alcohol were always consumed at the parties. I'd have to believe that's typical football player behavior at most colleges throughout the country.
So in my opinion, this sort of alcohol consumption would put typical athletes such as this in the category of a compromised immune system. They may have strong muscular bodies, but that doesn't always equate with a strong immune system.
Your quote: <<< These athletes have great immune systems, or they don't ? >>>
They don't.
I don't disagree with ya at all that covid is a brutal virus. It's possible that the healthiest person in the world under certain circumstances could catch it. But it's also possible that the world's safest driver, next time driving a car, could get injured or killed.
The key is keeping our immune system as strong as possible, and taking other proper preventative steps. So that the vast majority of us can enjoy a wonderful covid free life.
If you are referencing me in your diatribe, it all comes down to risk assessment. the number for 18-34-year-olds, according to your article is 2.7% mortality with over half of those being unhealthy.
if that is too high a number for you to stomach, what is your number? 2.5%? 2.1%? 1.4%? is it zero? at what point do YOU say it is safe for people to have the freedom to make their own decisions?
I know you have a personal connection to this topic so it is difficult to be unbiased.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I feel people should have the freedom to do as they please. No doubt about it.
If you've read all my posts, I hope you've come to the conclusion that I was a misinformed person
back in March of 2020. The CDC misled me. If the CDC had said back in March of 2020 that I could
get very ill from this virus even though my immune system is healthy, then I would have changed my behavior.
I was around people my entire life and never was a sick person at all. My immune system is just as good as anyone's here.
The central theme behind all my posts is that very healthy people are devastated by this disease, and many people
still do not understand how dangerous it is.
None of my posts are geared at telling people not to do something. All of my posts are geared towards informing
people how dangerous this is.
This is a guess, but my guess is that this is a man made virus. There was a government protest in Wuhan around the time
this virus became known. My "Guess" is that the chinese government had this developed in the lab to make
those protestors very ill. I could be totally wrong, but when this got inside my body, it took over and did some
very serious damage. Very young healthy people that I've known a good part of my life, some former ice hockey
players who were in great shape, had many nights where they couldn't breathe. They understand what it's like,
and their symptoms have not improved 100% either.
<<< My "Guess" >>>
Actually, scientists were predicting a covid type illness back in 2015
https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985
A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence
I understand that plagues and pestilence are a part of human history. That's why I said it's only a guess.
It's perfectly logical to assume that this monster came from an animal.
Anyone who adheres to that logic is fine. But if this thing every hits you hard, you would second guess it, that's all.
I don't disagree with ya at all about second guessing. I have no basic trust in any tyrannical country. History has shown time and time again what dictators are capable of doing to not only their own people, but other peoples as well.
However in this case, until it's proven otherwise, i believe covid is a "plagues and pestilence are a part of human history" as you stated.
I'm legitimately sorry that some folks are struggling with and have lost friends or loved ones with this virus...but I quickly lose patience with folks who think that just because of their personal situation or that of someone they know, they are somehow now an expert on how other people should live their lives. I'm also tired of the whataboutism over very isolated rare cases where some supposedly perfectly healthy person died or had permanent damage from it. News flash... supposedly healthy people drop dead every day from a lot of other causes too, and often it's because it turns out they weren't so perfectly healthy after all. Laying that aside, if this virus is so deadly and contagious enough to escape a high level biolab in Wuhan, then what makes you think that your cheetah print cloth mask is going to save you or anyone else when you go out to eat at Cracker Barrel? Also, why is it that my small business presents a danger for any more than 10 people but those same folks are perfectly fine if they go to Walmart where there are 800? Fear has replaced common sense lately and I don't see it changing much.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Yeah, some perfectly healthy firefighters lost their lives running up the World Trade Center. If the structural engineers would have told them there was a chance the building had no chance to endure the heat, and it would fall on them, do you think they’d go ?
.
Yeah, I would hope that going forward that at least hand washing, and staying home when sick, improves. A couple years ago I stopped going to my favorite lunch buffet spot because I got grossed out by people coughing and sneezing by the food and on their hands, and then touching the utensils.
A couple years ago the post office clerk had a coughing fit while she was still holding my credit card in her hand. Gross.
Simple fixes. Hygiene works.
We got email from Atlanta United. 50% capacity and those season tix holders that get lotteried to go will have to sit wherever they pod you to sit. I had surveyed 'yes' to going limited capacity but a lot of folks are upset about that number and want credit toward next year for games they choose not to go to. No word yet if that will apply.
Yes. They would still go in and get as many out as possible. I was and still am amazed at the heroic actions of the first responders on 9-11.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Nice strawman argument but yes, they'd still go because it's their job to go. They knew the danger when they joined.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012