Zion!!!??? Next Major NBA Star or Bust?

gobraves39401

This guy has been Balling!! You guys collecting him? Are you sold on him?

Copyboy1

Neither. He will be among the good-but-not-greats - like Blake Griffin.

DEFPOTEC

He’s phenomenal and already one of the biggest stars in the game. But I just can’t help but think his body breaks down. I hope not!

blurryface

tide has turned for me. i wrote him off after the bubble. i am now in hold pattern on some of his stuff!

Cakes

@DEFPOTEC said:
He’s phenomenal and already one of the biggest stars in the game. But I just can’t help but think his body breaks down. I hope not!

That's the million dollar question, will his body hold up. I mean hell he is the first player I have ever seen blow out a shoe!

Edited to add I am rooting for him.

Bottom line is his team has to start winning. Star players make the playoffs. And that goes back to the beginning of time. He will be 0-2 and there is a large lists of stars that never missed the playoffs.

https://nba.com/news/nba-legends-missing-out-playoffs

rtimmer

I have picked up a few of his nba top shots, and some of the 2019 unopened so that even if he does happen to fizzle I still have the class of rookies to balance the risk.

blurryface

my take is ingram was the guy. it was his team and was the go to guy in too many situations in which he didn't deliver. they were designing plays to get it to ingram to take "the" shot. last couple of games i've watched, the dynamic has changed. work the ball into zion down low and his size and speed will take care of the rest ala early shaq.

if z keeps slimming down or turns some more of that baby phat into lean muscle coupled with the confidence he's building in himself and w teammates, he's gonna be pretty hard to stop.

my only concern over time is his knees w that frame. but scared money doesn't make money, so....i'm rooting for him!

olb31

his stats will be great. The older stars only play a few games a month now, so he should be able to dominate the regular season. Now the playoffs will be another thing. He will probably need to do what Lebron and Durant had to do in order to win a championship and that's to join up with other current all-stars from other teams.

Danstone

I am see I think this kid going be a major star 💫

Cakes

@olb31 said:
his stats will be great. The older stars only play a few games a month now, so he should be able to dominate the regular season. Now the playoffs will be another thing. He will probably need to do what Lebron and Durant had to do in order to win a championship and that's to join up with other current all-stars from other teams.

I hear what you are saying but it's not the same. Both Lebron and Durant got very close, they made the playoffs and took their teams to the finals. It doesn't look like Zion is even going to make the playoffs. I get it that's it a little unfair to lay it all on Zion's super broad shoulders, but most star players at least make the playoffs. Next year he has to will his team to the playoffs to qualify as a star player.

Don't forget about Morant!

erikthredd

LeBron played in 238 games,KD in 236, before either player played in their first playoff game. Both made the playoffs in their 3rd season,for comparison Zion is currently playing in his 68th career game. Pointing out he hasn’t made the playoffs yet is a bit premature imo. If the Pelicans can re-sign Lonzo they’ll have a solid trio to build around in Zion,Ingram & Ball to go along with the 2nd most future draft picks behind only the Thunder.

I guess the comparisons to Blake Griffin are somewhat justified because of his dunking ability but Zion is about 40lbs heavier than Blake was at his peak and he can pretty much overpower any defender in the NBA plus go over most of them as well. At 19.7pts per game in the paint alone he’s dominating on a Shaq level in his prime and he’s still just 20yrs old. He’s already reached (All) Star status and the only unknown about his potential right now is can he holdup health wise long term?

Edit: Zion’s playing my Celtics tonight and they could really use a bust game from Zion.

blurryface

we need som3 candy in here!

my first zion rpa /25 w on card auto. self pull, self sub:

Cakes

@erikthredd said:
LeBron played in 238 games,KD in 236, before either player played in their first playoff game. Both made the playoffs in their 3rd season,for comparison Zion is currently playing in his 68th career game. Pointing out he hasn’t made the playoffs yet is a bit premature imo. If the Pelicans can re-sign Lonzo they’ll have a solid trio to build around in Zion,Ingram & Ball to go along with the 2nd most future draft picks behind only the Thunder.

I guess the comparisons to Blake Griffin are somewhat justified because of his dunking ability but Zion is about 40lbs heavier than Blake was at his peak and he can pretty much overpower any defender in the NBA plus go over most of them as well. At 19.7pts per game in the paint alone he’s dominating on a Shaq level in his prime and he’s still just 20yrs old. He’s already reached (All) Star status and the only unknown about his potential right now is can he holdup health wise long term?

Edit: Zion’s playing my Celtics tonight and they could really use a bust game from Zion.

I was actually defending Lebron and KD from the comment they needed to join other all stars to win a championship.

I hear you but I am not looking at it from a games played comparison. I was looking at it from it being his second season and his team is 5 games under .500.

He might be dominating similar to Shaq stats wise but that's about it. In Shaq's rookie season the Magic finished 41–41, winning 20 more games than the previous season, but missed the playoffs by virtue of a tie-breaker. In his second season the Magic finished with a record of 50–32. These are massive improvements. I still think next year Zion has to will his team to a winning record and make the playoffs to qualify as a star player. Just like the most of star players from the past.

Cakes

blurry, great pull, you lucky sucka!

thehallmark

Zion's floor is Shawn Kemp.

erikthredd

@Cakes said:

@erikthredd said:
LeBron played in 238 games,KD in 236, before either player played in their first playoff game. Both made the playoffs in their 3rd season,for comparison Zion is currently playing in his 68th career game. Pointing out he hasn’t made the playoffs yet is a bit premature imo. If the Pelicans can re-sign Lonzo they’ll have a solid trio to build around in Zion,Ingram & Ball to go along with the 2nd most future draft picks behind only the Thunder.

I guess the comparisons to Blake Griffin are somewhat justified because of his dunking ability but Zion is about 40lbs heavier than Blake was at his peak and he can pretty much overpower any defender in the NBA plus go over most of them as well. At 19.7pts per game in the paint alone he’s dominating on a Shaq level in his prime and he’s still just 20yrs old. He’s already reached (All) Star status and the only unknown about his potential right now is can he holdup health wise long term?

Edit: Zion’s playing my Celtics tonight and they could really use a bust game from Zion.

I was actually defending Lebron and KD from the comment they needed to join other all stars to win a championship.

I hear you but I am not looking at it from a games played comparison. I was looking at it from it being his second season and his team is 5 games under .500.

He might be dominating similar to Shaq stats wise but that's about it. In Shaq's rookie season the Magic finished 41–41, winning 20 more games than the previous season, but missed the playoffs by virtue of a tie-breaker. In his second season the Magic finished with a record of 50–32. These are massive improvements. I still think next year Zion has to will his team to a winning record and make the playoffs to qualify as a star player. Just like the most of star players from the past.

You’re kind of missing the point though that you have to look at it from a games played perspective. Between his injury to start his rookie season,the Pelicans obviously not in any rush to put him out there before he was fully healed and the unprecedented four and a half month layoff between games due to Covid made his rookie season anything but normal. Then add in the fact that the NBA’s condensed schedule this season on top of that isn’t remotely comparable to Shaq,KD or Lebron’s first two seasons in the NBA. In 2021 it’s hard to build on team success when most teams are lucky if they get two practices a week.
At that point the only comparison you can make is how they’ve played in a similar amount of games. Zion was tied with Griffin as the fastest players to 1K points scored since Shaq,doing it in 44 games. Lebron took 49 & KD 52 for comparison.

Since you want to bring up team success as some barometer for a 20yr old kid like he’ll be a failure for not “willing” his team to a better record or the playoffs,I’ll end this comment with this comparison of Zion and arguably three of the top 10-15 players in NBA history:
Team’s overall Won/Loss record in first 68 games played
Shaq/Magic 33-35
Zion/Pelicans 32-36
Lebron/Cavs 29-39
KD/Thunder 16-52

Copyboy1

@thehallmark said:
Zion's floor is Shawn Kemp.

Or Larry Johnson.

Cakes

@erikthredd said:

@Cakes said:

@erikthredd said:
LeBron played in 238 games,KD in 236, before either player played in their first playoff game. Both made the playoffs in their 3rd season,for comparison Zion is currently playing in his 68th career game. Pointing out he hasn’t made the playoffs yet is a bit premature imo. If the Pelicans can re-sign Lonzo they’ll have a solid trio to build around in Zion,Ingram & Ball to go along with the 2nd most future draft picks behind only the Thunder.

I guess the comparisons to Blake Griffin are somewhat justified because of his dunking ability but Zion is about 40lbs heavier than Blake was at his peak and he can pretty much overpower any defender in the NBA plus go over most of them as well. At 19.7pts per game in the paint alone he’s dominating on a Shaq level in his prime and he’s still just 20yrs old. He’s already reached (All) Star status and the only unknown about his potential right now is can he holdup health wise long term?

Edit: Zion’s playing my Celtics tonight and they could really use a bust game from Zion.

I was actually defending Lebron and KD from the comment they needed to join other all stars to win a championship.

I hear you but I am not looking at it from a games played comparison. I was looking at it from it being his second season and his team is 5 games under .500.

He might be dominating similar to Shaq stats wise but that's about it. In Shaq's rookie season the Magic finished 41–41, winning 20 more games than the previous season, but missed the playoffs by virtue of a tie-breaker. In his second season the Magic finished with a record of 50–32. These are massive improvements. I still think next year Zion has to will his team to a winning record and make the playoffs to qualify as a star player. Just like the most of star players from the past.

You’re kind of missing the point though that you have to look at it from a games played perspective. Between his injury to start his rookie season,the Pelicans obviously not in any rush to put him out there before he was fully healed and the unprecedented four and a half month layoff between games due to Covid made his rookie season anything but normal. Then add in the fact that the NBA’s condensed schedule this season on top of that isn’t remotely comparable to Shaq,KD or Lebron’s first two seasons in the NBA. In 2021 it’s hard to build on team success when most teams are lucky if they get two practices a week.
At that point the only comparison you can make is how they’ve played in a similar amount of games. Zion was tied with Griffin as the fastest players to 1K points scored since Shaq,doing it in 44 games. Lebron took 49 & KD 52 for comparison.

Since you want to bring up team success as some barometer for a 20yr old kid like he’ll be a failure for not “willing” his team to a better record or the playoffs,I’ll end this comment with this comparison of Zion and arguably three of the top 10-15 players in NBA history:
Team’s overall Won/Loss record in first 68 games played
Shaq/Magic 33-35
Zion/Pelicans 32-36
Lebron/Cavs 29-39
KD/Thunder 16-52

We will have to agree to disagree. You have some good points about covid and injuries but like you pointed out his health/durability is important and Zion has got hurt every step of the way, from HS to College to Pros.

You can read off stats how he is dominating like Shaq but you are comparing apples to oranges. The lack of defense has created the enhanced stats of the modern era. You would have to watch the NCAA Tournament to witness any defense being played.

People can keep comparing him to Shaq, Wilt, etc... but at some point his team has to at least have a decent record.

blurryface

@Cakes said:
blurry, great pull, you lucky sucka!

i have something coming in from a break on friday that im still in shock on...

weaselpuppy

Shaq in his prime is a bit much eh?

At that point Shaq was 310# 5 inches taller than Zion, and Andre the Giant would have got the hell out of his way

Pump the brakes fanboy...

In4apenny

@blurryface said:

@Cakes said:
blurry, great pull, you lucky sucka!

i have something coming in from a break on friday that im still in shock on...

If you are all shook up it must be good, very very goooood!

erikthredd

@weaselpuppy said:
Shaq in his prime is a bit much eh?

At that point Shaq was 310# 5 inches taller than Zion, and Andre the Giant would have got the hell out of his way

Pump the brakes fanboy...

Zion’s points in the paint per game average and FG% for this season are both comparable to Shaq’s prime seasons. Shaq played 20 seasons and only had one year where he topped Zion’s current FG% and that was from a 37 game season in Boston before he retired.
So yeah, he dominates the paint on Shaq’s level and just the fact that he’s doing it while half a foot shorter than Shaq only makes it more impressive.

Do you have anything else to add of substance or are you just going to make snide remarks while resorting to name calling?

The fanboy

rtimmer

@weaselpuppy said:
Shaq in his prime is a bit much eh?

At that point Shaq was 310# 5 inches taller than Zion, and Andre the Giant would have got the hell out of his way

Pump the brakes fanboy...

With all the Zion hype and high pop numbers might be time to sell Zion and buy Shaq to lock in safer returns. Shaq will always be top 15 and Zion who knows?

blurryface

@rtimmer said:

@weaselpuppy said:
Shaq in his prime is a bit much eh?

At that point Shaq was 310# 5 inches taller than Zion, and Andre the Giant would have got the hell out of his way

Pump the brakes fanboy...

With all the Zion hype and high pop numbers might be time to sell Zion and buy Shaq to lock in safer returns. Shaq will always be top 15 and Zion who knows?

taking the entire shaq thing outta the equation.

actually i would say the opposite. probably the last few weeks of getting zion at the end of a massive dip.

shaq prices will remain steady slowly trending up.

zion has the opportunity to skyrocket.

ArtVandelay

The truly great ones make the game look easy. Zion makes it look real easy. He's the next Lebron-level superstar.

galaxy27

obv no one knows what the future holds for him, but what everyone should know is 26.4/7.1/3.5 splits and #3 in PER this season at age 20

suck that does not

erikthredd

This was posted after his game last night:
ESPN Stats & Info
@ESPNStatsInfo
17h
Zion Williamson had his 24th consecutive game tonight with 20 pts on 50% shooting, 1 shy of tying Shaquille O'Neal for the longest such streak in the Shot-Clock Era (since 1954-55) h/t
@EliasSports

https://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/zion_williamson_one_game_away_from_tying_shaquille_oneal_record/s1_8061_34501964

Copyboy1

First 2 season comparison. Giving some allowance for different eras, pretty similar, no?

Cakes

@ArtVandelay said:
The truly great ones make the game look easy. Zion makes it look real easy. He's the next Lebron-level superstar.

I see what you mean about how easily he makes it look but you truly haven't appreciated King James to make the above comment.

If Zion can stay healthy he could become a great player/superstar but he is a long way away from reaching Lebron's level.

blurryface

@Cakes said:

@ArtVandelay said:
The truly great ones make the game look easy. Zion makes it look real easy. He's the next Lebron-level superstar.

but he is a long way away from reaching Lebron's level.

that's not necessarily a good or bad thing in my opinion.

he just needs to become the first zion.

Cakes

@blurryface said:

@Cakes said:

@ArtVandelay said:
The truly great ones make the game look easy. Zion makes it look real easy. He's the next Lebron-level superstar.

but he is a long way away from reaching Lebron's level.

that's not necessarily a good or bad thing in my opinion.

he just needs to become the first zion.

That is a good point, it's undeserved pressure. I didn't compare them...lol

weaselpuppy

Short burst rate stats are cool. He's playing great!

Bernard King was an unbelievably skilled guy so it's not the best direct comparison, as Shaq isn't either due to the size and rebounding/shot blocking massive differentials. Points in the paint today is a Whole Lot Different than back in the 90s, let alone the 80s. This is why it's hard if not foolish to make cross era comparisons.

Their games are less different than you think, but I would make the comparison to Larry Johnson as a little closer than Shaq.

blurryface

@weaselpuppy said:
Short burst rate stats are cool. He's playing great!

Bernard King was an unbelievably skilled guy so it's not the best direct comparison, as Shaq isn't either due to the size and rebounding/shot blocking massive differentials. Points in the paint today is a Whole Lot Different than back in the 90s, let alone the 80s. This is why it's hard if not foolish to make cross era comparisons.

Their games are less different than you think, but I would make the comparison to Larry Johnson as a little closer than Shaq.

like ya said foolish to make cross era comparisons. he won't be a grand mama, he won't be a shaq diesel. he'll be mt. zion.

erikthredd

If I were to pick a player to physically compare him to it would be Charles Barkley who,although was a couple inches shorter, came into the NBA at about the same playing weight as Zion around 290-300lbs. The Griffin & LJ comparisons make no sense when he’s a good 40-50lbs heavier than both of those two. The King one is even worse when Zion has about 80-90lbs on him.

I also want to point out that nowhere in this thread did I say he was the next Shaq, just that there hasn’t been in inside presence like Zion since Shaq. Right now predicting what he’ll eventually be is just asinine because no one knows that answer, all you can do is look at what he’s accomplished on the floor already and go off that.

From a hobby standpoint I have zero invested in him,I’m just a fan(boy) of his game and the uniqueness that he brings to the NBA. Maybe having a low post presence like Zion,like Giannis,Embid & the Joker finally starts to transition NBA teams out of taking 30-50 three point attempts every game.

weaselpuppy

that would be nice, from a fan enjoyment side of the game

Cakes

@blurryface said:

@weaselpuppy said:
Short burst rate stats are cool. He's playing great!

Bernard King was an unbelievably skilled guy so it's not the best direct comparison, as Shaq isn't either due to the size and rebounding/shot blocking massive differentials. Points in the paint today is a Whole Lot Different than back in the 90s, let alone the 80s. This is why it's hard if not foolish to make cross era comparisons.

Their games are less different than you think, but I would make the comparison to Larry Johnson as a little closer than Shaq.

like ya said foolish to make cross era comparisons. he won't be a grand mama, he won't be a shaq diesel. he'll be mt. zion.

Nah.... you're wrong!

He will be Holy Mount Zion!

erikthredd

There was a time when the Curry/Klay/KD Warriors turned three point shooting into a form of art that the KD/Kyrie/Harden/Joe Harris Nets might soon replicate but there are too many teams, including the one I root for, that live and die by them. Those nights when they’re off tend to be very boring games imo.

Copyboy1

@erikthredd said:
If I were to pick a player to physically compare him to it would be Charles Barkley who,although was a couple inches shorter, came into the NBA at about the same playing weight as Zion around 290-300lbs. The Griffin & LJ comparisons make no sense when he’s a good 40-50lbs heavier than both of those two. The King one is even worse when Zion has about 80-90lbs on him.

I also want to point out that nowhere in this thread did I say he was the next Shaq, just that there hasn’t been in inside presence like Zion since Shaq. Right now predicting what he’ll eventually be is just asinine because no one knows that answer, all you can do is look at what he’s accomplished on the floor already and go off that.

From a hobby standpoint I have zero invested in him,I’m just a fan(boy) of his game and the uniqueness that he brings to the NBA. Maybe having a low post presence like Zion,like Giannis,Embid & the Joker finally starts to transition NBA teams out of taking 30-50 three point attempts every game.

I wasn't comparing him physically, since that has zero bearing on whether he ends up an all-time great or not. I was comparing his game.

He's very close to Griffin - plays above the rim, big-time scorer, handles the ball well for a big man, not much of a 3-pt threat or free throw shooter, and under-rebounds for his position.

Same with King - although King was a better rebounder.

tsalems1

tsalems1

erikthredd

@Copyboy1 said:

@erikthredd said:
If I were to pick a player to physically compare him to it would be Charles Barkley who,although was a couple inches shorter, came into the NBA at about the same playing weight as Zion around 290-300lbs. The Griffin & LJ comparisons make no sense when he’s a good 40-50lbs heavier than both of those two. The King one is even worse when Zion has about 80-90lbs on him.

I also want to point out that nowhere in this thread did I say he was the next Shaq, just that there hasn’t been in inside presence like Zion since Shaq. Right now predicting what he’ll eventually be is just asinine because no one knows that answer, all you can do is look at what he’s accomplished on the floor already and go off that.

From a hobby standpoint I have zero invested in him,I’m just a fan(boy) of his game and the uniqueness that he brings to the NBA. Maybe having a low post presence like Zion,like Giannis,Embid & the Joker finally starts to transition NBA teams out of taking 30-50 three point attempts every game.

I wasn't comparing him physically, since that has zero bearing on whether he ends up an all-time great or not. I was comparing his game.

He's very close to Griffin - plays above the rim, big-time scorer, handles the ball well for a big man, not much of a 3-pt threat or free throw shooter, and under-rebounds for his position.

Same with King - although King was a better rebounder.

Fair enough but I think you do have to factor in his weight and how he could literally overpower any big in the NBA, I never felt that way with Griffin. I also think Zion is a much better finisher around the rim than Blake was and I’m not talking dunks.
I started following the Celtics & NBA around ‘84 and my only memories of King were that he was a great scorer with the Knicks before his knee injury then he came back and bounced around a bit IIRC.

rtimmer

@Cakes said:

@blurryface said:

@weaselpuppy said:
Short burst rate stats are cool. He's playing great!

Bernard King was an unbelievably skilled guy so it's not the best direct comparison, as Shaq isn't either due to the size and rebounding/shot blocking massive differentials. Points in the paint today is a Whole Lot Different than back in the 90s, let alone the 80s. This is why it's hard if not foolish to make cross era comparisons.

Their games are less different than you think, but I would make the comparison to Larry Johnson as a little closer than Shaq.

like ya said foolish to make cross era comparisons. he won't be a grand mama, he won't be a shaq diesel. he'll be mt. zion.

Nah.... you're wrong!

He will be Holy Mount Zion!

I see what you did there, do you think Ja could be the next Jah?

blurryface

@rtimmer said:

@Cakes said:

@blurryface said:

@weaselpuppy said:
Short burst rate stats are cool. He's playing great!

Bernard King was an unbelievably skilled guy so it's not the best direct comparison, as Shaq isn't either due to the size and rebounding/shot blocking massive differentials. Points in the paint today is a Whole Lot Different than back in the 90s, let alone the 80s. This is why it's hard if not foolish to make cross era comparisons.

Their games are less different than you think, but I would make the comparison to Larry Johnson as a little closer than Shaq.

like ya said foolish to make cross era comparisons. he won't be a grand mama, he won't be a shaq diesel. he'll be mt. zion.

Nah.... you're wrong!

He will be Holy Mount Zion!

I see what you did there, do you think Ja could be the next Ja?

ja knowit!

ArtVandelay

To be clear, when I say he will be the next Lebron level superstar I am not comparing him to Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc...I'm just saying that he will be the next NBA player to achieve that level of superstar status in the NBA.

blurryface

@tsalems1 said:

i like the green look! these /8?

addicted2ebay

@Copyboy1 said:

@thehallmark said:
Zion's floor is Shawn Kemp.

Or Larry Johnson.

exactly without the grandmama

tsalems1

@blurryface said:

@tsalems1 said:

i like the green look! these /8?

/16 , yeah the green ice is nice. The base PSA 10, last I checked was a pop 3 in a 10

blurryface

@tsalems1 said:

@blurryface said:

@tsalems1 said:

i like the green look! these /8?

/16 , yeah the green ice is nice. The base PSA 10, last I checked was a pop 3 in a 10

@In4apenny here she is!

Canes8387899101

Zion unopened