I've been doing nothing today but researching horses, talking about horses, downloading horse photos, searching eBay for horse cards, and watching horse videos. Gentleman, I'm all horsed out. And there's a damn fly that won't leave me alone in my living quarters!
@Goldenage said:
If you put a healthy Secretariat against any other healthy horse in history in a match race, and both jockeys start them fast out of the gate, then just go watch the Belmont again, because that’s what Secretariat does to every horse ever made. He was Gods horse. He was made to perfection. Sham was an excellent horse, and Sham couldn’t keep up with the tremendous machine. Neither would anyone else.
Sham broke a track record finishing 2nd behind Secretariat.
Sham finished dead last in that race.
All these historical inaccuracies are really starting to hiss me off.
And if anyone insults Penny Tweedy, that would be the final straw.
😉
Not the Belmont
I think you're right in the Derby or the Preakness.
As great a win as the Belmont was, the Preakness was also amazing. Secretariat had a burst of speed on the outside that you just don't see on a track with sharp turns against horses of that caliber.
Even Chic Anderson, one of the finest race callers ever, had a slip of the tongue and called Secretariat "Sham" as it was happening. I think in the back of his mind, he couldn't believe Secretariat had taken that position so quickly and so he misspoke.
Whenever something gives me thoughts about the greatest race horse ever, I come down to three: Sectetariat, Citation, and Man O War. I’ll admit to some recency bias because I saw Secretariat but not the others. But I always lean to Secretariat as the greatest ever for two main reasons. First is the obvious obliteration of everything at the Belmont Stakes, but there’s also the Derby. Secretariat broke the track record. And he did it against another horse that also broke the track record. I don’t think there’s another horse that did that. Beat a record against a horse that also beat the record.
I noticed the book on Citation is authored by Phil Georgeff. He’s a Chicago track legend calling at Sportsman and Arlington for years. “And here they come... spinning out of the turn!”
Turcotte admits that he let Secretariat alone in the Belmont. The Belmont was the race that showed that no horse could
ever beat Secretariat in a match race. Like was said above, Sham has the #2 time at another triple crown race. Sham tried to keep up with Big Red when Big Red was free to run the way he wanted. Sham physically couldn't do it and finished dead last. So would every other horse in the history of the sport, from England, to Siberia.
I was reading this article last night written in 2015 and jockey Gary Stevens was on a radio show right after the American Pharoah Triple Crown, and Gary Stevens claims that American Pharoah could have broken Secretariat's Belmont record.
Losing Jockey: American Pharoah, If Challenged, Would Have Broken Secretariat’s Record
June 10, 2015
WASHINGTON — In winning the Belmont Stakes Saturday, American Pharoah became the first horse since Affirmed in 1978 to win horse racing’s holy grail, the Triple Crown.
Rather than focusing on this historic accomplishment, the first of its kind in 37 years, American Pharoah’s victory has sparked a Jordan vs. LeBron-esque debate about how the recent winner would have fared against Secretariat, believed to be the fastest horse to ever race.
Spurred on by a viral side-by-side video — put together by The Wall Street Journal — this who did it better debate hinges on American Pharoah’s 5 1/2-length Belmont Stakes margin of victory, versus Secretariat’s 31-length victory 42 years earlier on the same track.
Their official times — American Pharoah (2:26.65), Secretariat (2:24) — it must be said, dictate that Secretariat would have won a head-to-head race by 2.65 seconds. The latter time is the track record.
Accomplished jockey Gary Stevens, who rode Tale of Verve and finished seventh at this year’s Belmont Stakes, knows the bitter pill of having won the first two legs of the Triple Crown, only to come up short in Elmont. He rode Silver Charm to Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes victories in 1997, then was denied the Triple Crown by Touch Gold by half a length. The next year, he reversed roles in denying Real Quiet the Triple Crown.
Stevens, having seen the latest Triple Crown winner up close, believes the narrative that Secretariat would have dominated American Pharoah is all wrong.
“It’s my feeling that, had somebody been able to engage him — like six furlongs out or something — we may have seen a performance like Secretariat where he won by 25 lengths,” Stevens said in a radio interview with The Sports Junkies on 106.7 The Fan.
“He ran the second fastest Belmont ever,” he said. “And I really think, had somebody engaged him early on around the turn, he probably would have broke Secretariat’s record.”
Of Saturday’s race, Stevens’ approach, he said, was exactly that — to wait for another horse to challenge American Pharoah early on, then swoop past them to victory.
“To be honest with you, the second stride out of the gate — my horse broke really well, and he’s not a speed horse at all, but he got a flyer at the start — and second jump out of there, Victor [Espinoza] was gone,” he said of American Pharoah’s jockey. “He angled straight to the fence, and reached up and took a hold of American Pharoah, and the race was over with the third jump out of the starting gate.
“I mean, literally,” he added. “It was over with. And everybody was running for second money.”
Stevens, so there was no confusion, clarified further that, instantly out of the break, he knew the race was over.
“Instantly. Instantly,” he repeated. “It was done like in .5 seconds. Everybody was running for second. I mean the horse was so talented, he just outclassed everybody. And, you know, Bob [Baffert] had talked about how Silver Charm had withstood the Triple Crown grind — he had actually put weight on going into the Belmont back in ’97. And American Pharoah did the same thing.
“When I saw his workout at Churchill Downs on YouTube, I think it was seven days or six days before the race, and somebody asked me, you know, ‘Do you guys have any shot of beating this horse?’ I said, ‘Yeah, if he doesn’t make his plane.'”
I live 1/2 hour from the Saratoga race course. You can imagine the horse racing fans around here.
Ron Turcotte who rode Secretariat has done many signings around here. Never met him but many who did say he said
the horse just took off and he was just on the horse for a ride. It was 100% horse. I remember seeing it live on TV and couldn't believe what I was seeing. Incidentally Secretariat was a runner up to Jackie Stewart for sportsman of the year award. The only non-human ever!!
DD racing cards.....
Last year I had got a new customer and was my last job of the day so I wasn't in a hurry. Had time to chat. I knew before I went there he was an ex jockey from talking to his wife. His career was basically ended with a severe head injury. I got the story start to end on how a very smart ambulance paramedic put all his info together and called his supervisor to get permission to override the track doctors order to send him to a hospital and then took him to the trauma center he was at 24 hours earlier. After an immediate CAT scan the doctor handed him his phone and said call your wife. "You have 5 minutes." Then directly into surgery. After he said that he had only hours left and if he had gone to the hospital the track doctor was sending him to he would have died. "That paramedic saved your life."
Back to cards. We were discussing sports and I said I collected sports cards and I said, too bad they don't make horse racing cards." He said they do. His wife went into the house and came out with one with him on it. He signed it for me and with his # wins. Can't find it or I would scan it and post. I called my buddy who is a card dealer and big time into horse racing. I said, "do you know who Dennis Carr is." He said absolutely I used to bet on him and forget what horse he was riding.
Two of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.
The area around Saratoga has many big dollar horse farms on the country roads.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
A- His horse's record was 20 lengths behind Secretariat's record.
B- If Secretariat was his "pace horse" at the Belmont, his horse would have ended up like Sham did.
I can't believe he said that horse could have broken Secretariat's record. What a huge amount of ignorance and
disrespect to the greatest horse that ever lived. Quite simply, if he could of beat the record, why didn't the jockey
do something about it. If he really felt the horse had it in him, then it was his job to get the job done. Stevens didn't,
but if he wants to live in his fantasy world then just let him.
@Goldenage said:
Gary Stevens has no idea what he's talking about.
A- His horse's record was 20 lengths behind Secretariat's record.
B- If Secretariat was his "pace horse" at the Belmont, his horse would have ended up like Sham did.
I can't believe he said that horse could have broken Secretariat's record. What a huge amount of ignorance and
disrespect to the greatest horse that ever lived. Quite simply, if he could of beat the record, why didn't the jockey
do something about it. If he really felt the horse had it in him, then it was his job to get the job done. Stevens didn't,
but if he wants to live in his fantasy world then just let him.
I got a good laugh out of his comments. I'm still laughing about it!
@jay0791 said:
I live 1/2 hour from the Saratoga race course. You can imagine the horse racing fans around here.
Ron Turcotte who rode Secretariat has done many signings around here. Never met him but many who did say he said
the horse just took off and he was just on the horse for a ride. It was 100% horse. I remember seeing it live on TV and couldn't believe what I was seeing. Incidentally Secretariat was a runner up to Jackie Stewart for sportsman of the year award. The only non-human ever!!
DD racing cards.....
Last year I had got a new customer and was my last job of the day so I wasn't in a hurry. Had time to chat. I knew before I went there he was an ex jockey from talking to his wife. His career was basically ended with a severe head injury. I got the story start to end on how a very smart ambulance paramedic put all his info together and called his supervisor to get permission to override the track doctors order to send him to a hospital and then took him to the trauma center he was at 24 hours earlier. After an immediate CAT scan the doctor handed him his phone and said call your wife. "You have 5 minutes." Then directly into surgery. After he said that he had only hours left and if he had gone to the hospital the track doctor was sending him to he would have died. "That paramedic saved your life."
Back to cards. We were discussing sports and I said I collected sports cards and I said, too bad they don't make horse racing cards." He said they do. His wife went into the house and came out with one with him on it. He signed it for me and with his # wins. Can't find it or I would scan it and post. I called my buddy who is a card dealer and big time into horse racing. I said, "do you know who Dennis Carr is." He said absolutely I used to bet on him and forget what horse he was riding.
Two of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.
The area around Saratoga has many big dollar horse farms on the country roads.
Awesome story, I would love to live near a a race track, just to be near it that kind of magical atmosphere must be awesome! I've been on ebay poking around at the horse racing cards, and I am surprised at the nice little selection they have of both jockeys and horses. I will definitely be starting a horse racing card collection very soon!
Saratoga is a religious experience to watch a race. It's my favorite. The graveyard of champions.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
At the end of the day Secretariat won a little less then 75% of his races. A pretty good number but he was beaten 5 times. He lost three stakes races the year he won the Triple Crown.
Horses have bad days , they have injuries, jockeys make mistakes, racing luck maybe against you.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I absolutely love horse racing. I was a horse baller ( horse racing term) from my early 20’s. I’m going to tell you a story and you’ll laugh and say NFW.
I lived in Buffalo and Fort Erie race track was right across the border. Before the days of passports you just went to the border, asked where you were born and where you were going. Bam into Canada we go.
This little analyzer was made in the 70’s and almost looks like a Mattel toy.
Now Ft Erie was a smaller track and tended to get a ton of $8-15k claimer races. If you know handicapping these are horses that may have won a race or haven’t won in 2-3 years. Pretty much all look the same. A few favorites and then flip a coin. I can analyze a race in about 10 minutes.
1st race part of the daily double the analyzer pops up Nelli a gogo. 70 to 1. 8 year old hadn’t won in 3 years. So $20 across and a a few $10 doubles.
I’m at the rail and down the stretch they’re coming and old Nellie is about 6 back and dead. But I flash a horse moving fast on the outside and sure enough Nellie wins by about a 1/2. I’ve used it for almost 50 years and when it’s on, it’s on all day. It picks the top 3 horses in these bag claimers. I usually bet the 3, $20 to win on the top 2 and $10 to win on the 3rd pick.
Pick % is right around 33%. Always hoping a 5-1 or longer wins as I usually stay away from scratch. Laugh all you want but find one and try it if you struggle handicapping.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@2dueces said:
I absolutely love horse racing. I was a horse baller ( horse racing term) from my early 20’s. I’m going to tell you a story and you’ll laugh and say NFW.
I lived in Buffalo and Fort Erie race track was right across the border. Before the days of passports you just went to the border, asked where you were born and where you were going. Bam into Canada we go.
This little analyzer was made in the 70’s and almost looks like a Mattel toy.
Now Ft Erie was a smaller track and tended to get a ton of $8-15k claimer races. If you know handicapping these are horses that may have won a race or haven’t won in 2-3 years. Pretty much all look the same. A few favorites and then flip a coin. I can analyze a race in about 10 minutes.
1st race part of the daily double the analyzer pops up Nelli a gogo. 70 to 1. 8 year old hadn’t won in 3 years. So $20 across and a a few $10 doubles.
I’m at the rail and down the stretch they’re coming and old Nellie is about 6 back and dead. But I flash a horse moving fast on the outside and sure enough Nellie wins by about a 1/2. I’ve used it for almost 50 years and when it’s on, it’s on all day. It picks the top 3 horses in these bag claimers. I usually bet the 3, $20 to win on the top 2 and $10 to win on the 3rd pick.
Pick % is right around 33%. Always hoping a 5-1 or longer wins as I usually stay away from scratch. Laugh all you want but find one and try it if you struggle handicapping.
@2dueces said:
I absolutely love horse racing. I was a horse baller ( horse racing term) from my early 20’s. I’m going to tell you a story and you’ll laugh and say NFW.
I lived in Buffalo and Fort Erie race track was right across the border. Before the days of passports you just went to the border, asked where you were born and where you were going. Bam into Canada we go.
This little analyzer was made in the 70’s and almost looks like a Mattel toy.
Now Ft Erie was a smaller track and tended to get a ton of $8-15k claimer races. If you know handicapping these are horses that may have won a race or haven’t won in 2-3 years. Pretty much all look the same. A few favorites and then flip a coin. I can analyze a race in about 10 minutes.
1st race part of the daily double the analyzer pops up Nelli a gogo. 70 to 1. 8 year old hadn’t won in 3 years. So $20 across and a a few $10 doubles.
I’m at the rail and down the stretch they’re coming and old Nellie is about 6 back and dead. But I flash a horse moving fast on the outside and sure enough Nellie wins by about a 1/2. I’ve used it for almost 50 years and when it’s on, it’s on all day. It picks the top 3 horses in these bag claimers. I usually bet the 3, $20 to win on the top 2 and $10 to win on the 3rd pick.
Pick % is right around 33%. Always hoping a 5-1 or longer wins as I usually stay away from scratch. Laugh all you want but find one and try it if you struggle handicapping.
That's a heckuva nice WPS ticket on that big long shot.
You bet the double but it wasn't clear if you hit it. If you did, that a was fat one!
That’s a bargain at that price. Absolutely hit the double. I remember my buddy Timmy Laduca and I running out to the car after the 2nd holding on to the pockets of our shorts so the wad of cash wouldn’t fall out.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@2dueces said:
I absolutely love horse racing. I was a horse baller ( horse racing term) from my early 20’s. I’m going to tell you a story and you’ll laugh and say NFW.
I lived in Buffalo and Fort Erie race track was right across the border. Before the days of passports you just went to the border, asked where you were born and where you were going. Bam into Canada we go.
This little analyzer was made in the 70’s and almost looks like a Mattel toy.
Now Ft Erie was a smaller track and tended to get a ton of $8-15k claimer races. If you know handicapping these are horses that may have won a race or haven’t won in 2-3 years. Pretty much all look the same. A few favorites and then flip a coin. I can analyze a race in about 10 minutes.
1st race part of the daily double the analyzer pops up Nelli a gogo. 70 to 1. 8 year old hadn’t won in 3 years. So $20 across and a a few $10 doubles.
I’m at the rail and down the stretch they’re coming and old Nellie is about 6 back and dead. But I flash a horse moving fast on the outside and sure enough Nellie wins by about a 1/2. I’ve used it for almost 50 years and when it’s on, it’s on all day. It picks the top 3 horses in these bag claimers. I usually bet the 3, $20 to win on the top 2 and $10 to win on the 3rd pick.
Pick % is right around 33%. Always hoping a 5-1 or longer wins as I usually stay away from scratch. Laugh all you want but find one and try it if you struggle handicapping.
That's a heckuva nice WPS ticket on that big long shot.
You bet the double but it wasn't clear if you hit it. If you did, that a was fat one!
That’s a bargain at that price. Absolutely hit the double. I remember my buddy Timmy Laduca and I running out to the car after the 2nd holding on to the pockets of our shorts so the wad of cash wouldn’t fall out.
@thisistheshow said:
Just maybe some of you might know what I'm talking about here.
I was born and raised in Marshfield, Ma. Any of you ever watch the races at the Marshfield Fair back in the day?
Never heard of it, but there's a number of summer fairs around the country that feature a few horse races, flats or harness, and usually there's no pari-mutuel betting on them.
Some larger fairs offer multiple races each day for say a few weeks, and sometimes there is pari-mutuel wagering available. Some of them if the races are simulcast, can make some good money for the fair's cause.
@thisistheshow said:
Just maybe some of you might know what I'm talking about here.
I was born and raised in Marshfield, Ma. Any of you ever watch the races at the Marshfield Fair back in the day?
Never heard of it, but there's a number of summer fairs around the country that feature a few horse races, flats or harness, and usually there's no pari-mutuel betting on them.
Some larger fairs offer multiple races each day for say a few weeks, and sometimes there is pari-mutuel wagering available. Some of them if the races are simulcast, can make some good money for the fair's cause.
No horses, if I go to a fair there better be a bearded lady for all to see. If there's no bearded lady, then I'll just take my business elsewhere!
@thisistheshow said:
Just maybe some of you might know what I'm talking about here.
I was born and raised in Marshfield, Ma. Any of you ever watch the races at the Marshfield Fair back in the day?
Never heard of it, but there's a number of summer fairs around the country that feature a few horse races, flats or harness, and usually there's no pari-mutuel betting on them.
Some larger fairs offer multiple races each day for say a few weeks, and sometimes there is pari-mutuel wagering available. Some of them if the races are simulcast, can make some good money for the fair's cause.
No horses, if I go to a fair there better be a bearded lady for all to see. If there's no bearded lady, then I'll just take my business elsewhere!
The Marshfield Fair had horse racing and betting from the 1930s to 1991.
@thisistheshow said:
Just maybe some of you might know what I'm talking about here.
I was born and raised in Marshfield, Ma. Any of you ever watch the races at the Marshfield Fair back in the day?
Never heard of it, but there's a number of summer fairs around the country that feature a few horse races, flats or harness, and usually there's no pari-mutuel betting on them.
Some larger fairs offer multiple races each day for say a few weeks, and sometimes there is pari-mutuel wagering available. Some of them if the races are simulcast, can make some good money for the fair's cause.
No horses, if I go to a fair there better be a bearded lady for all to see. If there's no bearded lady, then I'll just take my business elsewhere!
The Marshfield Fair had horse racing and betting from the 1930s to 1991.
Edit to add: the link is interesting reading, imo.
Very interesting indeed, but I must admit, I was disappointed that there was no mention of a bearded lady. I like a good bearded lady at my fairs. If there's no bearded lady available then I'll settle for a horse with a mustache.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@stevek said:
The bearded lady would have frightened me a lot more.
I don't know how they did it, but I swear it looked like the man turned into a gorilla.
Strategically placed mirrors I think were employed somehow.
Even though I and everyone else knew it wasn't real, when that pseudo gorilla escaped
everyone ran for the exit. I fully intended to keep running all the way home about 50
miles away but stopped when I bumped into the girl outside the tent and came to my senses, sort of.
It's a survival instinct. Those millions of years of evolution are still ingrained in all of us.
Thank goodness we learned to make spears, then swords, then guns, or we'd still be focused all day on running away from wild animals in the jungle.
Yes of course we now dominate the rest of the animal kingdom. Although some might say that cats and dogs are the superior species as we humans are like servants to their every need.
@stevek said:
The bearded lady would have frightened me a lot more.
I don't know how they did it, but I swear it looked like the man turned into a gorilla.
Strategically placed mirrors I think were employed somehow.
Even though I and everyone else knew it wasn't real, when that pseudo gorilla escaped
everyone ran for the exit. I fully intended to keep running all the way home about 50
miles away but stopped when I bumped into the girl outside the tent and came to my senses, sort of.
It's a survival instinct. Those millions of years of evolution are still ingrained in all of us.
Thank goodness we learned to make spears, then swords, then guns, or we'd still be focused all day on running away from wild animals in the jungle.
Yes of course we now dominate the rest of the animal kingdom. Although some might say that cats and dogs are the superior species as we humans are like servants to their every need.
I would say that our pets are superior to us, they own us and they know it. Here's a little taste of what our pets are really thinking....
@stevek said:
The bearded lady would have frightened me a lot more.
I don't know how they did it, but I swear it looked like the man turned into a gorilla.
Strategically placed mirrors I think were employed somehow.
Even though I and everyone else knew it wasn't real, when that pseudo gorilla escaped
everyone ran for the exit. I fully intended to keep running all the way home about 50
miles away but stopped when I bumped into the girl outside the tent and came to my senses, sort of.
It's a survival instinct. Those millions of years of evolution are still ingrained in all of us.
Thank goodness we learned to make spears, then swords, then guns, or we'd still be focused all day on running away from wild animals in the jungle.
Yes of course we now dominate the rest of the animal kingdom. Although some might say that cats and dogs are the superior species as we humans are like servants to their every need.
I would say that our pets are superior to us, they own us and they know it. Here's a little taste of what our pets are really thinking....
You missed a spot puny human!
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Add goldfish to this list.
They have a memory of 3 seconds but sit around all day without responsibilities
and has food brought to them. They can @#$% where they want.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Big Red going away....Man O War to Place with Citation and Affirmed nose to nose to show.
"We were all shocked,” Swerczek said. “I've seen and done thousands of autopsies on horses, and nothing I'd ever seen compared to it. The heart of the average horse weighs about nine pounds. This was almost twice the average size, and a third larger than any equine heart I'd ever seen. And it wasn't pathologically enlarged. All the chambers and the valves were normal. It was just larger. I think it told us why he was able to do what he did.”
Interestingly, I once read where it was at the '73 Belmont when Secretariat's trainer told Turcotte to just let him go. Apparently, in other races Turcotte tried to control Big Red throughout the race. The Belmont he just let him run. I believe that is still the greatest race a horse has ever run. It was truly spectacular. AWESOME in every sense of the word.
@bobbybakeriv said:
Interestingly, I once read where it was at the '73 Belmont when Secretariat's trainer told Turcotte to just let him go. Apparently, in other races Turcotte tried to control Big Red throughout the race. The Belmont he just let him run. I believe that is still the greatest race a horse has ever run. It was truly spectacular. AWESOME in every sense of the word.
You nailed it. No horse would ever beat 🏇 Big Red in a match race. Their hearts could not pump like his. They’d all end up like Sham did at the Belmont.
Secretariat was the greatest physical athlete ever made.
@bobbybakeriv said:
Interestingly, I once read where it was at the '73 Belmont when Secretariat's trainer told Turcotte to just let him go. Apparently, in other races Turcotte tried to control Big Red throughout the race. The Belmont he just let him run. I believe that is still the greatest race a horse has ever run. It was truly spectacular. AWESOME in every sense of the word.
You nailed it. No horse would ever beat 🏇 Big Red in a match race. Their hearts could not pump like his. They’d all end up like Sham did at the Belmont.
Secretariat was the greatest physical athlete ever made.
That's a big statement. If you're including animals in the discussion I'm thinking some 8 billion years ago
there lived a dinosaur that absolutely would have whipped Secretariat at Belmont and then ate him for his post race meal.
True but I doubt there'd be many takers to don the brightly colored silks and matching cap!
@bobbybakeriv said:
Interestingly, I once read where it was at the '73 Belmont when Secretariat's trainer told Turcotte to just let him go. Apparently, in other races Turcotte tried to control Big Red throughout the race. The Belmont he just let him run. I believe that is still the greatest race a horse has ever run. It was truly spectacular. AWESOME in every sense of the word.
You nailed it. No horse would ever beat 🏇 Big Red in a match race. Their hearts could not pump like his. They’d all end up like Sham did at the Belmont.
Secretariat was the greatest physical athlete ever made.
That's a big statement. If you're including animals in the discussion I'm thinking some 8 billion years ago
there lived a dinosaur that absolutely would have whipped Secretariat at Belmont and then ate him for his post race meal.
Secretariat versus T-Rex match race. I would pay to see that.
@jay0791 said:
Add goldfish to this list.
They have a memory of 3 seconds but sit around all day without responsibilities
and has food brought to them. They can @#$% where they want.
And humans have a 1 second less attention span than a goldfish. Let that sink in for a minute, or 2 seconds.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Comments
I've been doing nothing today but researching horses, talking about horses, downloading horse photos, searching eBay for horse cards, and watching horse videos. Gentleman, I'm all horsed out. And there's a damn fly that won't leave me alone in my living quarters!
I think you're right in the Derby or the Preakness.
As great a win as the Belmont was, the Preakness was also amazing. Secretariat had a burst of speed on the outside that you just don't see on a track with sharp turns against horses of that caliber.
Even Chic Anderson, one of the finest race callers ever, had a slip of the tongue and called Secretariat "Sham" as it was happening. I think in the back of his mind, he couldn't believe Secretariat had taken that position so quickly and so he misspoke.
Whenever something gives me thoughts about the greatest race horse ever, I come down to three: Sectetariat, Citation, and Man O War. I’ll admit to some recency bias because I saw Secretariat but not the others. But I always lean to Secretariat as the greatest ever for two main reasons. First is the obvious obliteration of everything at the Belmont Stakes, but there’s also the Derby. Secretariat broke the track record. And he did it against another horse that also broke the track record. I don’t think there’s another horse that did that. Beat a record against a horse that also beat the record.
I noticed the book on Citation is authored by Phil Georgeff. He’s a Chicago track legend calling at Sportsman and Arlington for years. “And here they come... spinning out of the turn!”
Turcotte admits that he let Secretariat alone in the Belmont. The Belmont was the race that showed that no horse could
ever beat Secretariat in a match race. Like was said above, Sham has the #2 time at another triple crown race. Sham tried to keep up with Big Red when Big Red was free to run the way he wanted. Sham physically couldn't do it and finished dead last. So would every other horse in the history of the sport, from England, to Siberia.
https://www.espn.com/sportscentury/features/00016464.html
I was reading this article last night written in 2015 and jockey Gary Stevens was on a radio show right after the American Pharoah Triple Crown, and Gary Stevens claims that American Pharoah could have broken Secretariat's Belmont record.
Losing Jockey: American Pharoah, If Challenged, Would Have Broken Secretariat’s Record
June 10, 2015
WASHINGTON — In winning the Belmont Stakes Saturday, American Pharoah became the first horse since Affirmed in 1978 to win horse racing’s holy grail, the Triple Crown.
Rather than focusing on this historic accomplishment, the first of its kind in 37 years, American Pharoah’s victory has sparked a Jordan vs. LeBron-esque debate about how the recent winner would have fared against Secretariat, believed to be the fastest horse to ever race.
Spurred on by a viral side-by-side video — put together by The Wall Street Journal — this who did it better debate hinges on American Pharoah’s 5 1/2-length Belmont Stakes margin of victory, versus Secretariat’s 31-length victory 42 years earlier on the same track.
Their official times — American Pharoah (2:26.65), Secretariat (2:24) — it must be said, dictate that Secretariat would have won a head-to-head race by 2.65 seconds. The latter time is the track record.
Accomplished jockey Gary Stevens, who rode Tale of Verve and finished seventh at this year’s Belmont Stakes, knows the bitter pill of having won the first two legs of the Triple Crown, only to come up short in Elmont. He rode Silver Charm to Kentucky Derby and Preakness Stakes victories in 1997, then was denied the Triple Crown by Touch Gold by half a length. The next year, he reversed roles in denying Real Quiet the Triple Crown.
Stevens, having seen the latest Triple Crown winner up close, believes the narrative that Secretariat would have dominated American Pharoah is all wrong.
“It’s my feeling that, had somebody been able to engage him — like six furlongs out or something — we may have seen a performance like Secretariat where he won by 25 lengths,” Stevens said in a radio interview with The Sports Junkies on 106.7 The Fan.
“He ran the second fastest Belmont ever,” he said. “And I really think, had somebody engaged him early on around the turn, he probably would have broke Secretariat’s record.”
Of Saturday’s race, Stevens’ approach, he said, was exactly that — to wait for another horse to challenge American Pharoah early on, then swoop past them to victory.
“To be honest with you, the second stride out of the gate — my horse broke really well, and he’s not a speed horse at all, but he got a flyer at the start — and second jump out of there, Victor [Espinoza] was gone,” he said of American Pharoah’s jockey. “He angled straight to the fence, and reached up and took a hold of American Pharoah, and the race was over with the third jump out of the starting gate.
“I mean, literally,” he added. “It was over with. And everybody was running for second money.”
Stevens, so there was no confusion, clarified further that, instantly out of the break, he knew the race was over.
“Instantly. Instantly,” he repeated. “It was done like in .5 seconds. Everybody was running for second. I mean the horse was so talented, he just outclassed everybody. And, you know, Bob [Baffert] had talked about how Silver Charm had withstood the Triple Crown grind — he had actually put weight on going into the Belmont back in ’97. And American Pharoah did the same thing.
“When I saw his workout at Churchill Downs on YouTube, I think it was seven days or six days before the race, and somebody asked me, you know, ‘Do you guys have any shot of beating this horse?’ I said, ‘Yeah, if he doesn’t make his plane.'”
I live 1/2 hour from the Saratoga race course. You can imagine the horse racing fans around here.
Ron Turcotte who rode Secretariat has done many signings around here. Never met him but many who did say he said
the horse just took off and he was just on the horse for a ride. It was 100% horse. I remember seeing it live on TV and couldn't believe what I was seeing. Incidentally Secretariat was a runner up to Jackie Stewart for sportsman of the year award. The only non-human ever!!
DD racing cards.....
Last year I had got a new customer and was my last job of the day so I wasn't in a hurry. Had time to chat. I knew before I went there he was an ex jockey from talking to his wife. His career was basically ended with a severe head injury. I got the story start to end on how a very smart ambulance paramedic put all his info together and called his supervisor to get permission to override the track doctors order to send him to a hospital and then took him to the trauma center he was at 24 hours earlier. After an immediate CAT scan the doctor handed him his phone and said call your wife. "You have 5 minutes." Then directly into surgery. After he said that he had only hours left and if he had gone to the hospital the track doctor was sending him to he would have died. "That paramedic saved your life."
Back to cards. We were discussing sports and I said I collected sports cards and I said, too bad they don't make horse racing cards." He said they do. His wife went into the house and came out with one with him on it. He signed it for me and with his # wins. Can't find it or I would scan it and post. I called my buddy who is a card dealer and big time into horse racing. I said, "do you know who Dennis Carr is." He said absolutely I used to bet on him and forget what horse he was riding.
Two of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.
The area around Saratoga has many big dollar horse farms on the country roads.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Gary Stevens has no idea what he's talking about.
A- His horse's record was 20 lengths behind Secretariat's record.
B- If Secretariat was his "pace horse" at the Belmont, his horse would have ended up like Sham did.
I can't believe he said that horse could have broken Secretariat's record. What a huge amount of ignorance and
disrespect to the greatest horse that ever lived. Quite simply, if he could of beat the record, why didn't the jockey
do something about it. If he really felt the horse had it in him, then it was his job to get the job done. Stevens didn't,
but if he wants to live in his fantasy world then just let him.
I got a good laugh out of his comments. I'm still laughing about it!
Awesome story, I would love to live near a a race track, just to be near it that kind of magical atmosphere must be awesome! I've been on ebay poking around at the horse racing cards, and I am surprised at the nice little selection they have of both jockeys and horses. I will definitely be starting a horse racing card collection very soon!
Saratoga is a religious experience to watch a race. It's my favorite. The graveyard of champions.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
At the end of the day Secretariat won a little less then 75% of his races. A pretty good number but he was beaten 5 times. He lost three stakes races the year he won the Triple Crown.
Horses have bad days , they have injuries, jockeys make mistakes, racing luck maybe against you.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I absolutely love horse racing. I was a horse baller ( horse racing term) from my early 20’s. I’m going to tell you a story and you’ll laugh and say NFW.
I lived in Buffalo and Fort Erie race track was right across the border. Before the days of passports you just went to the border, asked where you were born and where you were going. Bam into Canada we go.
This little analyzer was made in the 70’s and almost looks like a Mattel toy.
Now Ft Erie was a smaller track and tended to get a ton of $8-15k claimer races. If you know handicapping these are horses that may have won a race or haven’t won in 2-3 years. Pretty much all look the same. A few favorites and then flip a coin. I can analyze a race in about 10 minutes.
1st race part of the daily double the analyzer pops up Nelli a gogo. 70 to 1. 8 year old hadn’t won in 3 years. So $20 across and a a few $10 doubles.
I’m at the rail and down the stretch they’re coming and old Nellie is about 6 back and dead. But I flash a horse moving fast on the outside and sure enough Nellie wins by about a 1/2. I’ve used it for almost 50 years and when it’s on, it’s on all day. It picks the top 3 horses in these bag claimers. I usually bet the 3, $20 to win on the top 2 and $10 to win on the 3rd pick.
Pick % is right around 33%. Always hoping a 5-1 or longer wins as I usually stay away from scratch. Laugh all you want but find one and try it if you struggle handicapping.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
I didn't know if I should leave a LOL or a like.
>
Here's one on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/c/1528454760
That's a heckuva nice WPS ticket on that big long shot.
You bet the double but it wasn't clear if you hit it. If you did, that a was fat one!
That’s a bargain at that price. Absolutely hit the double. I remember my buddy Timmy Laduca and I running out to the car after the 2nd holding on to the pockets of our shorts so the wad of cash wouldn’t fall out.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Very nice score!
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Just maybe some of you might know what I'm talking about here.
I was born and raised in Marshfield, Ma. Any of you ever watch the races at the Marshfield Fair back in the day?
Never heard of it, but there's a number of summer fairs around the country that feature a few horse races, flats or harness, and usually there's no pari-mutuel betting on them.
Some larger fairs offer multiple races each day for say a few weeks, and sometimes there is pari-mutuel wagering available. Some of them if the races are simulcast, can make some good money for the fair's cause.
No horses, if I go to a fair there better be a bearded lady for all to see. If there's no bearded lady, then I'll just take my business elsewhere!
The Marshfield Fair had horse racing and betting from the 1930s to 1991.
http://www.horseracing-tracks.com/tracks/ma/homeMf.html
Edit to add: the link is interesting reading, imo.
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The bearded lady would have frightened me a lot more.
Very interesting indeed, but I must admit, I was disappointed that there was no mention of a bearded lady. I like a good bearded lady at my fairs. If there's no bearded lady available then I'll settle for a horse with a mustache.
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Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Mr Ed's game face was intimidating
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It's a survival instinct. Those millions of years of evolution are still ingrained in all of us.
Thank goodness we learned to make spears, then swords, then guns, or we'd still be focused all day on running away from wild animals in the jungle.
Yes of course we now dominate the rest of the animal kingdom. Although some might say that cats and dogs are the superior species as we humans are like servants to their every need.
I never knew until I saw the credits at the end of a Mister Ed episode. The voice of Mister Ed was done by Mister Ed himself.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
I would say that our pets are superior to us, they own us and they know it. Here's a little taste of what our pets are really thinking....
Mister Ed actually taught philosophy classes at Harvard. Was known as Horse Sense 101.
The only bad part about attending the classes is sometimes the floor got a bit messy.
You missed a spot puny human!
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Add goldfish to this list.
They have a memory of 3 seconds but sit around all day without responsibilities
and has food brought to them. They can @#$% where they want.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Big Red going away....Man O War to Place with Citation and Affirmed nose to nose to show.
"We were all shocked,” Swerczek said. “I've seen and done thousands of autopsies on horses, and nothing I'd ever seen compared to it. The heart of the average horse weighs about nine pounds. This was almost twice the average size, and a third larger than any equine heart I'd ever seen. And it wasn't pathologically enlarged. All the chambers and the valves were normal. It was just larger. I think it told us why he was able to do what he did.”
Interestingly, I once read where it was at the '73 Belmont when Secretariat's trainer told Turcotte to just let him go. Apparently, in other races Turcotte tried to control Big Red throughout the race. The Belmont he just let him run. I believe that is still the greatest race a horse has ever run. It was truly spectacular. AWESOME in every sense of the word.
You nailed it. No horse would ever beat 🏇 Big Red in a match race. Their hearts could not pump like his. They’d all end up like Sham did at the Belmont.
Secretariat was the greatest physical athlete ever made.
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True but I doubt there'd be many takers to don the brightly colored silks and matching cap!
Secretariat versus T-Rex match race. I would pay to see that.
And humans have a 1 second less attention span than a goldfish. Let that sink in for a minute, or 2 seconds.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.