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Unique or Unique-to-Own Coins

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 22, 2023 2:04AM in U.S. Coin Forum

The following coins cannot be owned privately as they are in museums, often the Smithsonian but one is in the ANA.

It's very interesting that 2 unique coins were owned by Willis du Pont and donated to the Smithsonian.

Please add to the following list :)

1. Unique, but cannot be owned privately

  1. 1804 Class II Dollar
  2. 1849 Smithsonian Double Eagle (1 known, 2 on record)
  3. 1866 Farkouk, Willis du Pont No Motto Seated Liberty Quarter
  4. 1866 Willis du Pont No Motto Seated Liberty Half Dollar
  5. 1974 Aluminum Cent (1 known)
  6. 1974-D Aluminum Cent (1 known)

2. Unique, can be owned privately

  1. 1787 EB Punch on Breast Brasher Doubloon (unique, others have punch on identical location on wing)
  2. 1870-S Half Dime (1 known, 1 assumed in SF Mint building)
  3. 1870-S William H. Woodin, Harry W. Bass Jr. $3 Princess (1 known, 1 assumed in SF Mint building)
  4. 1873-CC Eliasberg No-Arrows Dime (unique)
  5. 1907 J-1776 $20 pattern (unique)
  6. 1976 No S Proof Eisenhower Dollar (unique)

3. Unique to own, other specimens cannot be owned privately

  1. 1822 Brand-Eliasberg-Pogue Half Eagle
  2. 1933 Farouk-Weitzman $20


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Comments

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    HasBeenHasBeen Posts: 42 ✭✭

    The 1870-S $3 is privately owned by the Bass family and/or its foundation. It is currently on loan to the ANA for display in their museum.

    1870-S H.10, also unique, is privately owned.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @HasBeen said:
    The 1870-S $3 is privately owned by the Bass family and/or its foundation. It is currently on loan to the ANA for display in their museum.

    1870-S H.10, also unique, is privately owned.

    Fixed and added. Thanks!

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The gold $50 Half Union pattern in the Smithsonian Institute.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    The gold $50 Half Union pattern in the Smithsonian Institute.

    Good point. Actually, it seems like a lot of patterns are unique so they may have to be listed separately.

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    CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021 6:52AM

    Zion, here are a couple coins that go into cat #1

    1797 Half Eagle "Large Eagle, 15 Stars" (unique)
    1797 Half Eagle "Large Eagle, 16 Stars" (unique)

    This coin should be cat #3

    1866 No Motto Simpson Seated Dollar,

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only 'unique' coin I have is a parking lot cent.... :D ... No numismatic premium, but no other coin just like it... ;) Seriously though, how cool to own a 'one of a kind' coin... Cheers, RickO

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    WCCWCC Posts: 2,371 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Brasher half doubloon in the Smithsonian

    Immune Colombia gold, don't recall where it is but not available to be bought to my recollection.

    Garrett proof $50 slug in the Smithsonian.

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    GoBustGoBust Posts: 586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gardner 1823/2 Proof Quarter....unique (privately owned). Also the key to the Capped Bust Quarter set.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    The gold $50 Half Union pattern in the Smithsonian Institute.

    There are two of them, from slightly different obverse dies.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What about the 1870-S Quarter Dollar believed to be in the cornerstone?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    What about the 1870-S Quarter Dollar believed to be in the cornerstone?

    They lost the corner stone so the entire thing is speculation. Now the CC corner stone they actually opened it up and found coins before sealing it back up or so I believe the story goes.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    What about the 1870-S Quarter Dollar believed to be in the cornerstone?

    They lost the corner stone so the entire thing is speculation. Now the CC corner stone they actually opened it up and found coins before sealing it back up or so I believe the story goes.

    >
    Are you quite sure of that?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    1TwoBits1TwoBits Posts: 452 ✭✭✭✭

    I guess this will go with the patterns, but Eric Newman's 1792 $10 Washington Gold Eagle Pattern, Musante GW-31(A), Unique (NGC XF45).

    Searching for bust quarters.....counterstamps, errors, and AU-MS varieties, please let me know if you can help.
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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Crypto said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    What about the 1870-S Quarter Dollar believed to be in the cornerstone?

    They lost the corner stone so the entire thing is speculation. Now the CC corner stone they actually opened it up and found coins before sealing it back up or so I believe the story goes.

    >
    Are you quite sure of that?

    I wasn’t there so no but they never found the San Fran one and I forgot where I read about when they opened the Carson city

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    yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021 1:45AM

    The 1874 SF Mint building is still standing, so I'm not sure how the cornerstone would have been removed.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Mint

    2007 thread:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/614963/old-san-francisco-mint-cornerstone
    I think the most helpful post on the thread notes that since the building has a basement,
    the cornerstone is probably below the floor level of the basement and not easily inspected or scanned at present time.
    Although it's not easily seen or "found", I don't think this implies it does not exist.
    It did exist at one time according to the newspaper report in May 1870, so my thought is that it would have
    to be removed to change this state of affairs.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021 7:06AM

    I'm going to spend some time to rework this thread.

    I think unique coins need to be categorized by:

    1. regular issue date/mm
    2. regular issue variety
    3. pattern
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    GoBustGoBust Posts: 586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. Unique in proof format?
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    GoBustGoBust Posts: 586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are many many more unique patterns. E.g. 1794 no stars dollar pattern. The many other unique patterns just aren't very famous and they're often very moderately priced. So rare there isn't really much of a competitive market for them.

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    renomedphysrenomedphys Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Snow-1 die pairing is unique in copper. There are about a dozen known in Copper-Nickel but weirdly they are worth more grade for grade, because they aren’t classified as “patterns”

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    RobertScotLoverRobertScotLover Posts: 602 ✭✭✭✭

    Should the Brasher Dubloon be classified as a U.S. coin? It was manufactured outside of the U.S. Mint (before the establishment of the U.S. Mint) privately by a goldsmith. It does not contain the wording "United States of America nor the denomination. I personally call it a token and since the goldsmith's initials appear to be counter stamped on it just like he did with his silverware it is more of a sample of his work or a calling card intended to be used as a item of money to be used in trade.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RobertScotLover said:
    Should the Brasher Dubloon be classified as a U.S. coin? It was manufactured outside of the U.S. Mint (before the establishment of the U.S. Mint) privately by a goldsmith. It does not contain the wording "United States of America nor the denomination. I personally call it a token and since the goldsmith's initials appear to be counter stamped on it just like he did with his silverware it is more of a sample of his work or a calling card intended to be used as a item of money to be used in trade.

    I agree.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please add a note to the 1976 No S Proof Ike that it is a Type Two. I handled it while I was still with Coin World.

    And when we (CW) received the press release about the sets of coins presented to the three Bicentennial coin designers and a representative of President Ford, the accompanying pictures of the coins clearly showed PROOF COINS WITHOUT MINT MARKS! The Dollar coins were of course Type One.

    When I was preparing a set of these pictures for inclusion in The Coin World Almanac, I noticed this omission and brought it to the attention of Editor Margo Russell. She said that she would call the Mint Director and ask her. Later Margo told me that the Mint Director told her that all of the no mint mark coins had later been returned to the Mint and replaced with normal S-mint 40% Silver Proofs.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @wondercoin said:
    Thanks Mike for the excellent “Provenance and Price History” of the No S Ike (also Unique in being the only Ty 2 Proof Silver Dollar struck for the 1976 Bicentennial of our country). In the roughly (22) years since my purchase of the coin, I believe I only brought it over to PCGS the one time immediately following the 2002 Auction as Rick Montgomery (then President of PCGS) wanted to take some pictures of the coin and (if memory serves me right) add a new Judd number to the Insert Tag as he personally believed the coin to be a “Presentation Piece”. At that time, I believe he also added the Cameo to the grade.

    Thank you CaptHenway as well.

    Wondercoin

    B)

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WCC said:
    Brasher half doubloon in the Smithsonian

    Immune Colombia gold, don't recall where it is but not available to be bought to my recollection.

    Garrett proof $50 slug in the Smithsonian.

    There’s actually two proof slugs, one is in the Smithsonian but the prettier one from the Humbert/Garrett collection is privately owned.

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    retirednowretirednow Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoBust said:
    There are many many more unique patterns. E.g. 1794 no stars dollar pattern. The many other unique patterns just aren't very famous and they're often very moderately priced. So rare there isn't really much of a competitive market for them.

    Well said. The one I pick up with my donation the the Harry Bass Foundation was the J598 3$ piece struck in silver (PF61). I had posted this piece on a prior occasion but it never gets old for me to do so.

    I would not call this piece inexpensive, however relatively speaking, I feel it was considering it is currently the only one in private hands (Mine). The other piece is noted on USPattren,com is the Byron Reed Collection, owned by the City of Omaha, Nebraska and on loan to the Durham Museum.

    If it had not made it way through the basement of the Egyptian Palace of King Farouk, it most likely would have been a higher grade , but then again the cost would have been proportionally higher - but the rarity remains unchanged.

    Provenance: Ex: William H. Woodin; Waldo C. Newcomer; King Farouk; Palace Collections of Egypt Sale (Sotheby's, 2/1954), lot 1807; Kreisberg & Schulman Feb 1960 Lot # 2440; Gaston DiBello Collection, Part II (Stack's, 5/1970), lot 480; William R. Sieck Collection (Bowers and Ruddy, 7/1981), lot 329. From The Harry W. Bass, Jr. Core Collection, Heritage Jan 2023 Fun Lot # 9061

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2024 5:35PM

    The 1976 No-S Ike may be unique but it has (at least) 2 TrueViews! I love TrueViews and have come across first one today so it's great to always see something new for me!

    Wonderful coin and history! Thanks @CaptHenway, @Byers, @wondercoin!


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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2024 6:39PM

    @CaptHenway said:
    Please add a note to the 1976 No S Proof Ike that it is a Type Two. I handled it while I was still with Coin World.

    And when we (CW) received the press release about the sets of coins presented to the three Bicentennial coin designers and a representative of President Ford, the accompanying pictures of the coins clearly showed PROOF COINS WITHOUT MINT MARKS! The Dollar coins were of course Type One.

    When I was preparing a set of these pictures for inclusion in The Coin World Almanac, I noticed this omission and brought it to the attention of Editor Margo Russell. She said that she would call the Mint Director and ask her. Later Margo told me that the Mint Director told her that all of the no mint mark coins had later been returned to the Mint and replaced with normal S-mint 40% Silver Proofs.

    Very interesting that all the other no mint mark coins had been returned and replaced regular S-mint pieces.

    Given that the Mint replaced them with normal S-mint coins, this does this indicate that the Mint thought they were errors which they fixed?

    Do we know how many others there were?

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @retirednow said:

    @GoBust said:
    There are many many more unique patterns. E.g. 1794 no stars dollar pattern. The many other unique patterns just aren't very famous and they're often very moderately priced. So rare there isn't really much of a competitive market for them.

    Well said. The one I pick up with my donation the the Harry Bass Foundation was the J598 3$ piece struck in silver (PF61). I had posted this piece on a prior occasion but it never gets old for me to do so.

    I would not call this piece inexpensive, however relatively speaking, I feel it was considering it is currently the only one in private hands (Mine). The other piece is noted on USPattren,com is the Byron Reed Collection, owned by the City of Omaha, Nebraska and on loan to the Durham Museum.

    If it had not made it way through the basement of the Egyptian Palace of King Farouk, it most likely would have been a higher grade , but then again the cost would have been proportionally higher - but the rarity remains unchanged.

    Provenance: Ex: William H. Woodin; Waldo C. Newcomer; King Farouk; Palace Collections of Egypt Sale (Sotheby's, 2/1954), lot 1807; Kreisberg & Schulman Feb 1960 Lot # 2440; Gaston DiBello Collection, Part II (Stack's, 5/1970), lot 480; William R. Sieck Collection (Bowers and Ruddy, 7/1981), lot 329. From The Harry W. Bass, Jr. Core Collection, Heritage Jan 2023 Fun Lot # 9061

    That's a great provenance!

    Would be great to enter on PCGS CoinFacts, with your entry as well.

    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1867-3-j-598/60810

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    Please add a note to the 1976 No S Proof Ike that it is a Type Two. I handled it while I was still with Coin World.

    And when we (CW) received the press release about the sets of coins presented to the three Bicentennial coin designers and a representative of President Ford, the accompanying pictures of the coins clearly showed PROOF COINS WITHOUT MINT MARKS! The Dollar coins were of course Type One.

    When I was preparing a set of these pictures for inclusion in The Coin World Almanac, I noticed this omission and brought it to the attention of Editor Margo Russell. She said that she would call the Mint Director and ask her. Later Margo told me that the Mint Director told her that all of the no mint mark coins had later been returned to the Mint and replaced with normal S-mint 40% Silver Proofs.

    Very interesting that all the other no mint mark coins had been returned and replaced regular S-mint pieces.

    Given that the Mint replaced them with normal S-mint coins, this does this indicate that the Mint thought they were errors which they fixed?

    Do we know how many others there were?

    The Mint was rather reluctant to discuss the matter with me.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2024 8:48PM

    @CaptHenway said:

    @Zoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    Please add a note to the 1976 No S Proof Ike that it is a Type Two. I handled it while I was still with Coin World.

    And when we (CW) received the press release about the sets of coins presented to the three Bicentennial coin designers and a representative of President Ford, the accompanying pictures of the coins clearly showed PROOF COINS WITHOUT MINT MARKS! The Dollar coins were of course Type One.

    When I was preparing a set of these pictures for inclusion in The Coin World Almanac, I noticed this omission and brought it to the attention of Editor Margo Russell. She said that she would call the Mint Director and ask her. Later Margo told me that the Mint Director told her that all of the no mint mark coins had later been returned to the Mint and replaced with normal S-mint 40% Silver Proofs.

    Very interesting that all the other no mint mark coins had been returned and replaced regular S-mint pieces.

    Given that the Mint replaced them with normal S-mint coins, this does this indicate that the Mint thought they were errors which they fixed?

    Do we know how many others there were?

    The Mint was rather reluctant to discuss the matter with me.

    Too bad. Seems like the coins had an interesting distribution given that the Lustig-Spivack specimen was discovered in a "Woodward and Lathrup Department store in the Washington District area".

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 13, 2024 9:01PM

    @Zoins said:

    The unique 1870-S Half Dime is now provenanced as the Simpson-Bender specimen for Bob Simpson and Tom Bender.

    Here's a quote from @Analyst:

    @Analyst said:
    Over the last eighteen years, Bender rose to become a towering presence in the coin community.

    Ref: https://www.greysheet.com/news/story/tom-bender-s-collection-review-part-1-generalities-carson-city-coins

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't remember it being this toned when I saw it at ANACS, but that was a while ago.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2024 6:34AM

    @CaptHenway said:
    I don't remember it being this toned when I saw it at ANACS, but that was a while ago.

    That's the benefit of having multiple photos of the same coin over time. Here's the coin in a 2009 photo from Legend when they sold it for a NJ lawyer, with the TrueView for comparison. The TrueView may be from the Bender era, though I think it had the same toned look when sold from the Simpson collection.

    Ref: https://www.coinnews.net/2009/07/17/unique-1870-s-sold-by-legend-numismatics-in-half-dime-deal/


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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,421 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did the coin change or did the lighting change?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2024 8:19AM

    @PerryHall said:
    Did the coin change or did the lighting change?

    It's difficult to tell from just the photos but perhaps we can ask Laura as she handled the coin at both times.

    The lighter appearing tone does, however, seem to support Tom's recollection.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's the Harry Edmond Lawrence specimen of the 1974-D aluminum cent:

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Did the coin change or did the lighting change?

    A fair question. I don't know.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Judging only from images, the colorful TV has the look of the other coins that have over exaggerated TVs. I would venture to guess the coin’s actual appearance falls somewhere between the two, lighting being the primary culprit.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2024 9:37AM

    @MrEureka said:
    1942 Aluminum Cent. Unknown until posted on this forum in 2008. (Even the owner didn't realize that it was aluminum.) Unique.

    What a wonderful coin Andy! It's one of my favorites!

    Do you happen to have a link to the original thread? The discoverer posted some really great raw photos of this coin at the time. I loved the one showing the thickness of the planchet.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @MrEureka said:
    1942 Aluminum Cent. Unknown until posted on this forum in 2008. (Even the owner didn't realize that it was aluminum.) Unique.

    What a wonderful coin Andy! It's one of my favorites!

    Do you happen to have a link to the original thread? The discoverer posted some really great raw photos of this coin at the time. I loved the one showing the thickness of the planchet.

    I couldn't find it. The thread was posted by "Travel", IIRC. Maybe you'll have better luck finding it.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2024 9:53AM

    @MrEureka said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MrEureka said:
    1942 Aluminum Cent. Unknown until posted on this forum in 2008. (Even the owner didn't realize that it was aluminum.) Unique.

    What a wonderful coin Andy! It's one of my favorites!

    Do you happen to have a link to the original thread? The discoverer posted some really great raw photos of this coin at the time. I loved the one showing the thickness of the planchet.

    I couldn't find it. The thread was posted by "Travel", IIRC. Maybe you'll have better luck finding it.

    No luck. Looks like the original thread may have been thread id 628993. If so, it seems to have been deleted. Not sure if the thread or photos can be recovered, but it may be worth checking.

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    IkesTIkesT Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MrEureka said:
    1942 Aluminum Cent. Unknown until posted on this forum in 2008. (Even the owner didn't realize that it was aluminum.) Unique.

    What a wonderful coin Andy! It's one of my favorites!

    Do you happen to have a link to the original thread? The discoverer posted some really great raw photos of this coin at the time. I loved the one showing the thickness of the planchet.

    I couldn't find it. The thread was posted by "Travel", IIRC. Maybe you'll have better luck finding it.

    Apparently, the original thread was deleted, but it was referenced in thread below, also from 2008:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/640732/1942-white-metal-cent-up-for-auction/p1

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    ByersByers Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2024 10:23AM
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2024 11:16AM

    @MrEureka said:
    1942 Aluminum Cent. Unknown until posted on this forum in 2008. (Even the owner didn't realize that it was aluminum.) Unique.

    I just noticed that this has been CACed as well, It doesn't have a CACView yet, but hopefully one day!

    https://www.cacgrading.com/lookup/12229741

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    pocketpiececommemspocketpiececommems Posts: 5,744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a very interesting thread. Lots of good info here

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