Speaking of crypto: Paypal

Weiss

And it's likely that I'm a day late and a dollar short here, but I was just sweeping out my paypal balance and I saw that paypal now lets you buy cryptocurrency: Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Ethereum.

So I picked up $100 of each.

drei3ree

Day late and a dollar short...they announced 4 months ago!

derryb

Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.

LukeMarshall

@derryb said:
Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.

I would argue that the crypto “buy and HODL” investor would be in full control of the private keys of their cryptocurrency in offline wallets not reliant on a third party custody of their assets.

Neither paypal or robinhood offer you access to the private keys of said cryptocurrencies, but can both be used to speculate on the values of said cryptos in the comfort of their respective sandboxes.

Tony_Lassitter

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5575378759&campid=5338273189&customid=&icep_item=124634667792&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg&toolid=11111

Justacommeman

@derryb said:
Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.

Love the layout of the Robinhood app and agree

m

ShadyDave

@derryb said:
Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.
@Justacommeman said:

@derryb said:
Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.

Love the layout of the Robinhood app and agree

m

https://fortune.com/2020/07/08/robinhood-makes-millions-selling-your-stock-trades-is-that-so-wrong/

Users are being frontrun by hedgies or are victims of HFT if you are using Robinhood or another economy brokerage. Ask anyone who has been trading GME or AMC. Can you tell me how Robnhood makes money after screwing over their base? Here's a simplistic overview: https://fortune.com/2020/07/08/robinhood-makes-millions-selling-your-stock-trades-is-that-so-wrong/

Do you think Citadel is funding both melvin capital and robinhood and playing by the rules? My background and career is based on well over a decade of securities compliance and market regulation with FINRA and the SEC. Please don't recommend Robinhood to any users here.

derryb

@ShadyDave said:

@derryb said:
Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.
@Justacommeman said:

@derryb said:
Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.

Love the layout of the Robinhood app and agree

m

https://fortune.com/2020/07/08/robinhood-makes-millions-selling-your-stock-trades-is-that-so-wrong/

Users are being frontrun by hedgies or are victims of HFT if you are using Robinhood or another economy brokerage. Ask anyone who has been trading GME or AMC. Can you tell me how Robnhood makes money after fucking over their base? Here's a simplistic overview: https://fortune.com/2020/07/08/robinhood-makes-millions-selling-your-stock-trades-is-that-so-wrong/

Do you think Citadel is funding both melvin capital and robinhood and playing by the rules? My background and career is based on well over a decade of securities compliance and market regulation with FINRA and the SEC. Please don't recommend Robinhood to any users here unless you're trying to fuck them over.

https://fortune.com/2020/07/08/robinhood-saves-its-customers-millions-by-selling-their-stock-trades-is-that-so-wrong/

Who cares where the trades go and who profits from them as long as they get made in a timely manner at the price I choose. RH provides me a cheap/free avenue to make trades. I highly recommend the RH trading platform, it is simple to navigate. Since you are a pro with a background in FINRA and SEC compliance, you are fully aware that they regulate RH for compliance. Please don't trash any third party to readers here unless you can base that on actual experience with the party and not with what you read. My recommendation comes from actual experience with RH.

derryb

@LukeMarshall said:

@derryb said:
Paypal works best for the buy and hold investor. It's a good place to funnel some of your paypal income. Use Robinhood if you want to buy and sell on a regular basis.

I would argue that the crypto “buy and HODL” investor would be in full control of the private keys of their cryptocurrency in offline wallets not reliant on a third party custody of their assets.

Neither paypal or robinhood offer you access to the private keys of said cryptocurrencies, but can both be used to speculate on the values of said cryptos in the comfort of their respective sandboxes.

Is a digital wallet owner able to find a buyer and sell his crypto from his wallet or does he have to independently find the buyer and then conduct the transaction.

RH and Paypal (and crypto exchanges) simplify crypto ownership by removing the hassles of a digital wallet and private keys for the crypto investor. One is buying a "piece" of the exchanges digital holdings in a much simper transaction.

Yes, there is third party risk with such crypto ownership, similar to owning "paper" precious metals. There are different risks associated with a digital wallet and digital keys. The only true way to remove risk with cryptos is to take possession of them (like precious metals) and put them in your safe. Unfortunately this is not an option with digital cryptos.

MilesWaits

I am currently using the “like” button for passion and conviction. Not grammar or language.
Or maybe so, sometimes.

LukeMarshall

@derryb said:

Is a digital wallet owner able to find a buyer and sell his crypto from his wallet or does he have to independently find the buyer and then conduct the transaction.

RH and Paypal (and crypto exchanges) simplify crypto ownership by removing the hassles of a digital wallet and private keys for the crypto investor. One is buying a "piece" of the exchanges digital holdings in a much simper transaction.

Yes, there is third party risk with such crypto ownership, similar to owning "paper" precious metals. There are different risks associated with a digital wallet and digital keys. The only true way to remove risk with cryptos is to take possession of them (like precious metals) and put them in your safe. Unfortunately this is not an option with digital cryptos.

1. It depends on The wallet. Usually a native cryptocurrency wallet built within the client (QT) has the function to receive and send (as well as a litany of other options) Some wallets are maintained by a third party company have direct ties to market and can be bought and sold though, while giving you access to the private keys (in case the software goes down you can boot up your native QT import your wallet and find another place to sell. Typically those types of wallets are a larger wait time between transactions but offer an additional level of security

2. I understand it’s easier for some people to buy and sell through notable places, places they are comfortable with, lowering the barrier of entry to “own” cryptocurrency. These types of systems are absolutely necessary for someone who desires a simpler experience without bothering with the technicals.

*edit to add... even though this is a simpler experience, it carries an inherent risk and trust in the custodian.

3. False. The whole point of owning the private key is that it can be taken possession of printed onto a piece of paper, carved into a rock, or otherwise secured and placed inside your safe impervious to any third party, offline, and awaiting the time where it can be uploaded to your client and used if desired.

Read a little on Cold storage and hot wallets and you’ll see what I’m saying. As always best of luck in your ventures

derryb

The risk of owning actual bitcoin.

LukeMarshall

The risk keeping your bitcoin on an exchange

cohodk

Sounds like a lot of risk. Lol

Rhodl

I use the cold wallet Nano X Ledger. Then lock it in my offsite safe and surround it with gold and silver. Then I put my private key lists in another safe. Then I try to work my ass off for some USD to live on, but that is getting harder and will continue to be. After all, it is us that has to pay off (through taxes) the national debt which is at around 24Trillion. At least thats what they tell us, I bet it is more like 100Trillion. Makes me sick

Justacommeman

I dunno know. All my trades are commission free on all my platforms but one. ( UBS $100 a trade). All on line brokers are discount IMO. I only use Robinhood to trade in and out of BitCoin. I get interest albeit small on cash balances. I have a RH debit card with Free ATM usage. It's tied to Apple Pay. Transferring in and out of my bank is easy peasy.

I tried to trade BC with Schwab but they only offer option trading on BC. What could go wrong there?

Sorry you can't take all the risk out of trading or platforms. Suit yourself. I like being able to trade crypto 24/7/365

RH's pro forma is pretty simple. Make pennies on each trade. We will call it slippage. They want to do lots of trades. Lots and lots of trades. No doubt they really are going after the novice/ first time traders offering easy account opening, low minimum deposit, fractional shares and a cool layout. Trades are even swiped on a phone. The site is extremely intuitive. It's built for the young or young at heart.

m

ShadyDave

@Justacommeman said:
RH's pro forma is pretty simple. Make pennies on each trade. We will call it slippage. They want to do lots of trades. Lots and lots of trades. No doubt they really are going after the novice/ first time traders offering easy account opening, low minimum deposit, fractional shares and a cool layout. Trades are even swiped on a phone. The site is extremely intuitive. It's built for the young or young at heart.

m

Till things like this happen to the young investors...all because of Robinhood's ineptitude:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alex-kearns-robinhood-trader-suicide-wrongful-death-suit/

Or having a sub-par back-office, LOL:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/robinhood-investing-infinite-money-leverage-glitch-shows-risk-investing-game-2019-11-1028685860

Rhodl

Maybe a dumb question, but do any of these overnight crypto millionaires ever “cash” out of their positions? What would happen if every crypto, nft, or stock derivative had to be paid out in a fiat currency? Would the fed just print more money? For example, who would do the paying out if all Bitcoin holders got together and pulled a good one, as in GameStop on Reddit?

derryb

@ShadyDave said:

Till things like this happen to the young investors...all because of Robinhood's ineptitude:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alex-kearns-robinhood-trader-suicide-wrongful-death-suit/

First thing to come to mind is personal responsibility. When you reach an age where it is legal to do things such as drive a car, drink alcohol or trade on RH you have to take responsibility for your choices. Oops, almost forgot, that no longer applies, it's always someone else's fault. lol

RH warns of trading risks and users agree that they understand this. Little Btard likely got greedy and threw common sense out the window. Ford sells you a car; it's your responsibility to drive it safely.

ShadyDave

@derryb said:

@ShadyDave said:

Till things like this happen to the young investors...all because of Robinhood's ineptitude:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alex-kearns-robinhood-trader-suicide-wrongful-death-suit/

First thing to come to mind is personal responsibility. When you reach an age where it is legal to do things such as drive a car, drink alcohol or trade on RH you have to take responsibility for your choices. Oops, almost forgot, that no longer applies, it's always someone else's fault. lol

RH warns of trading risks and users agree that they understand this. Little Btard likely got greedy and threw common sense out the window. Ford sells you a car; it's your responsibility to drive it safely.

If you actually read the article, which you clearly haven't, you would have seen that Robinhood messed up here. The kid covered his position correctly and RH didn't update his orders and his balance so it look like he was down $750k, when in reality he wasn't.

Per the article:

"The day after Alex took his own life, Robinhood sent an automated email suggesting the trade had been resolved and he didn't owe any money.

"Great news!" The email read, "We're reaching out to confirm that you've met your margin call and we've lifted your trade restrictions. If you have any questions about your margin call, please feel free to reach out. We're happy to help!"

Now, lets talk about personal responsibility again... or does that not apply to companies?

Rhodl

RobinHood is so backwards. Taking from the poor middle class and making the rich richer. Ruining a once positive principle. Much the same as hitler ruined the real positive meaning of the original swastika. Maybe they are connected. Vlad Tenev is das führer! The resemblance is striking when he is in short hair!

Justacommeman

I use RH to trade Bitcoin. Period.

How many people killed themselves after the Madoff incident? Rich folks. Pension funds. How many people have been scammed by boiler room operations? Unsophisticated folks. Life's ruined. I used to drive Jordan Belfort home when "he moved" from his Lake Success office in Long Island to Steve Madden Corp in Queens. I've seen it all. Wall St is dirty. Period. All of it. The SEC is always three steps behind.

People are always going to try to separate you from your money.

m

Weiss

Just picked up $100 of Bitcoin Cash. It's the last of the 4 cryptos offered via Paypal.

Purely speculative. As I said before, I bought into GBTC in 2017 and still hold it.

Germaine to this conversation: I actually opened a coinbase wallet via Fidelity when I bought GBTC. Fidelity had teamed up with them, and I had intended to buy a few $K worth of Bitcoin and Ethereum at the time. Unfortunately, I'd intended to buy via a credit card, and back then at least you couldn't fund the wallet without connecting to a checking account. I was reluctant to do that at the time.

But everyone has a story of the one that got away, right?

Rhodl

I forgot about Bernie! I wonder how many more of those there are in the current system? Pretty sure the test will come soon to expose them. Thanks for the reminder. I agree about Wall Street, that is why I don’t play there at all.

Justacommeman

@Rhodl said:
I forgot about Bernie! I wonder how many more of those there are in the current system? Pretty sure the test will come soon to expose them. Thanks for the reminder. I agree about Wall Street, that is why I don’t play there at all.

Wall St by its very nature is predatory. You have some of the sharpest minds in the world in this field. It doesn't take but a handful to do a lot of harm. There are more then a handful out there . I'm still very involved in this arena but I'm very cognizant of what's out there.

m

derryb

@ShadyDave said:

If you actually read the article, which you clearly haven't, you would have seen that Robinhood messed up here. The kid covered his position correctly and RH didn't update his orders and his balance so it look like he was down $750k, when in reality he wasn't.

I read the article and I saw where the kid's parents said they "believe Alex's inexperience is what got him into trouble after a transaction last year." I also read where their lawyer said the kid may not have lost money at all, because of the way the options bets were structured. So instead of the kid waiting for RH to get back to him (which they did) he offs himself.

Rhodl

The uncompassionate, know it all, heartless tax proponent bot called derryb strikes again!

thefinn

God love ya... I just want to watch.

drei3ree

@Rhodl said:
The uncompassionate, know it all, heartless tax proponent bot called derryb strikes again!

Bye! Don't mess with derryb...

LukeMarshall

Paypal did announce they are rolling out a way to pay for things with your stored crypto on their website... so that’s a step in the right direction IMO and a step further than Robin Hood

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN2BM10N

derryb

From Luke's link.

"The company will charge no transaction fee to checkout with crypto."

So than rather than pay a fee when you sell your crytpo, just spend your crypto fee free.

Still my only problem with PP cryptos is their buying limits. The limits quickly prevent you from moving in and out of cryptos. Every move back into a crypto counts against your cumulative weekly ($15K) and annual ($50K) limit.

Currently, only 10% of PP accounts in the U.S. have access to their crypto service.

jmski52

I tried to trade BC with Schwab but they only offer option trading on BC. What could go wrong there?

Awesome! I wonder what the beta is on that derivative............

RobM

The PayPal no transaction fee at checkout isn't practical. Who is actually going to take the time to calculate their tax gains and losses for each purchase? Virtually no one accepts Bitcoin as payment. Even just about anyone that lists Bitcoin as a payment option is actually getting paid in cash since they are relying on a third party to handle the transaction. Bitcoin is simply not a viable option to make routine purchases within the US. PayPal is only promoting it so that they can make the 2.9% on the commercial transaction vs. the 1.5-2% they make when crypto is sold and the proceeds swept back into your bank account.

ctf_error_coins

I used Paypal crypto and just sold for a 27% profit after fees.

I just now signed up for Coinbase, any of you using Coinbase?

Do they really need your username and password on your bank account? Secure?

derryb

In the digital world nothing is fully secure; there are only degrees of fully secured.

Weiss

I bought a few shares of coinbase when they IPO'd this week. That count?

ctf_error_coins

@Weiss said:
I bought a few shares of coinbase when they IPO'd this week. That count?

No, I bought too many shares of COIN this week myself.

Now I think I want to use their service. I have never had a service ask for a username and password for a bank account. I have given out my routing number and account number many times, but never the user ID and password.

Is this the norm?

derryb

I primarily use RH for cryptos, the seven they offer fit my needs and the platform is simple to use and is not limited to cryptos. For the occasional off brand crypto trade I use the Kracken exchange. Because of its cumulative weekly and annual trading limits I use PP Crypto strictly for long term holds that I fund with my business profits. Note that to get the best PP Crypto fees, individual trades must exceed $1K.

bidask

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
I used Paypal crypto and just sold for a 27% profit after fees.

I just now signed up for Coinbase, any of you using Coinbase?

Do they really need your username and password on your bank account? Secure?

why did you switch to coinbase ?

ctf_error_coins

@bidask said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
I used Paypal crypto and just sold for a 27% profit after fees.

I just now signed up for Coinbase, any of you using Coinbase?

Do they really need your username and password on your bank account? Secure?

why did you switch to coinbase ?

I do not know.

I do own the stock.

Are they the leader in this market in the USA?

Paypal has a yearly limit. The spread on PayPal seems extremely high or is that normal? You can not set a buy or sell price on paypal. eBay no longer dumps tons of cash into my PayPal account.

I want to get on a crypto exchange. I want the best long-term company which I Assume is Coinbase.

I may want to take payment for coins that I sell with cryptocurrencies.

DrBuster

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

Now I think I want to use their service. I have never had a service ask for a username and password for a bank account. I have given out my routing number and account number many times, but never the user ID and password.

Is this the norm?

Yes, for tran$fer$ that talk app2app. Have to be able to do a deposit/withdrawal action.