Interesting Theodore Roosevelt + others signed aviation cover - my story, and is this authentic?
JMS1223
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About ten years ago I visited a collectibles shop in Boston. The shop closed permanently a few years ago but I knew the man who ran it from coin collecting. I believe he died a few years after the shop closed.
One day when I came in he was excited to show me this aviation cover. He knew I was into autographs and asked if I knew anything about it or could give an opinion on the autographs, particularly Roosevelt’s since I knew Presidential autographs pretty well. I looked at it and told him that I did not think the signature looked like Roosevelt’s enough for me to believe it was signed by him but that I had no idea about the other signatures. The cover itself appeared old enough to be authentic in that it was canceled and vintage looking in age. I came to the belief that the Roosevelt signature was likely forged on an original cover but I wasn’t sure about the other signatures. He wanted, if I remember correctly, $800 for it. I did not buy it but he allowed me to make a photocopy of it.
Over the years I kept the photocopy hoping to find out more about it. I never found out about the other signatures or the origins of the cover itself. I was never much into stamps, but I find the cover itself to look very interesting. The size seems unusual compared with FDC sizes I was used to seeing. This envelope is the size of a standard commercial envelope, 9 1/2 by 4 1/8 inches. That makes me wonder if maybe the cover was faked too. The stamp used appears real, but maybe everything including cancellation was added. I am interested in the history of this type of item and if it is something that was made as a memento for aviation collectors? Or if this was totally fabricated? Or partly based on something that existed? I am hoping some of you here can help me out and shed some light on this.
Comments
It isn't a first day cover. The stamp was issued on July 11, 1918. What is the "great achievement" mentioned? This was probably an airmail event cover. Covers commemorating airmail events were widely collected at least until the late 1970's so the cover may well be authentic. The signatures are another matter and will require an expert. I see no problem with the envelope size. There never really was a standard size for such event covers, especially from the early years of airmail.
First I thought it was no good since that does not look like Teddy Roosevelt's signature. But...
On closer inspection I think there is a story to be told. It is a business sized (#10) envelope but I can't figure out the year.
The T Roosevelt could be TR's son, TR, Jr. Peary is exolorer Robert Peary. Bartlett was also an explorer. Burleson was the Postmaster General.
The postmark lists three cities. That might have been a "first flight" cover.
I am not saying the signatures are real but I suspect they are. You could look up other examples to compare to.
I think $800 was under the assumption that it was Pres. TR. Not worth that much but whoever has it should do further research on the "great achievement."
Was the shop in Boston the Collector's Shop, and the owner Jim Skalbe?
Very interesting if this was from 1918. I can’t make out the date though but now I know it has to be after that date.
Very interesting thought. I never considered it could be TR, Jr. Good to know the other names. I’ll have to look into them.
First flight cover sounds interesting. I wonder when it was made and what “first flight“ it was commentating and when it occurred. And as you both mentioned what that “great achievement” is?
That name and store sounds very familiar. I think that may be him, but I wish I could remember for sure. It’s been awhile and I had only been there about 4-5 times and that owner was someone I only saw at this shop and at one or two coin events prior to that. The shop had lots of different collectibles - but coins/paper money were a big focus. I think I remember jewelry, art prints, small antiques like jewelry boxes perhaps, and I remember ancient artifacts too because I had purchased one from him. It was a very neat little store. I was so sad when it closed.
Ugh. I just responded to this and somehow my whole post got deleted when I tried to edit it. Is there a way I can find my response? Looks like I will have to redo it from scratch. I guess this is a quirk that sometimes happens when editing your post.
Very interesting the stamp was issued in 1918. That means this would have to be from at least after that.
Never considered TR, Jr. That might very well be it. I will have to look into those other names to see what I can find out. Maybe this is legit.
I am very curious to find out what “first flight” this commemorates and when that was. I am very curious what that “great achievement” is referring as both of you were wondering as well.
I believe that may very well be the shop and the owner. That sounds very familiar but I am not 100% sure that is it because it’s been a while so I could could be mixing him up with another person. I know a few collectors due to attending many coin shows so lots of names are familiar. This shop had lots of different kinds of collectibles but coins/paper money was the major focus. I recall there being antiquities, art prints on the walls, and jewelry and other small similar items in display cases. It was a very neat shop and I was very sad when I heard it was closing.
There were two collectors shops on the same street, but the store closing and the owner passing away sounded a lot like the situation I mentioned.
BTW, TR Jr. was also a Medal of Honor recipient (possibly for his explorer activities while also a Navy officer rather in combat, the same way Robert Byrd got it). He was a notable person in his own right.
Then that was probably the shop and owner, especially if that shop closed and he later died.
He received the Medal of Honor for leading troops at Normandy on D-Day. He, as a US Army brigadier general, and deputy commander of the 4th Infantry Division, landed in the first wave on Utah Beach, and directed the troops as they established a beach head.
Thx for the information. Her certainly earned it the hard way!
Sounds like he was very accomplished in multiple areas.
I think it is indeed Theodore Roosevelt Jr.’s autograph. I just did a comparison and it matches up much more than it does with his father’s autograph.
So maybe this was a legit piece after all. Really curious what the great achievement was and when this was signed and for what occasion. Seems like it could be very historic if we had the whole backstory.
Bartlett and Peary made a run at the North Pole and Bartlett captained the ship past some point that had never been done before. I think the ship was the SS Roosevelt, presumably named after TR. But I think that all predated the cover.
The postal cover seems to be flight related so unless Bartlett was just using that as his host for the signatures, maybe the achievement was flight related. The inclusion of the Postmaster General would imply an airmail connection.
I just Googled the organization in the address, the Aerial League of America. It seemed to have been active in 1917-1919. I can't read what is under the time on your postmark - I had assumed it was not the year but it may be 1918. The airmail route on the postmark was begun in 5/15/18, a couple months before your postmark. Peary was involved in this organization. It was focused on promoting flight for observation purposes (this was during WWI) and also early airmail (note the stamp says "aeroplane mail".)
A flight cover for sure. Since the cover was addressed to Bartlett, I guess he would not have been the pilot. Also, since Bartlett also signed the cover, it maybe not have been signed for himself but rather someone else, such as the pilot (?). It may not have been Bartlett's achievement that TR Jr. was commenting on.
Very interesting. Thanks for shedding some light on this. Now I wish I had bought this. I am afraid that because I thought it was the president TR and thought it was fake the owner may had gotten rid of it. He offered it to me before I told him my opinion so I could had easily bought it for the $800 he wanted then later discovered it was TR Jr. and figured out how the other signatures were related. That makes this is very neat and historic item. Very cool is over 100 years old now (it was probably 2011 when I saw it so not yet 100 years old then).
But with limited knowledge at the time and not even considering it was TR Jr. I had to pass. I can’t believe I never thought it was his son. Makes so much more sense.
I don't blame you - I would have had the same reaction. In fact I did here, until I took a 2nd look.
If it was TR, I think $800 was steep. As TR Jr., $800 is absurdly overpriced. So, just as well.
It just popped into my head - the other store on the same street was the Colonial Trading Company, and that might have been the one owned by Jim Skalbe.
That’s it. That’s the store.
That's amazing. I stopped in once to see if he had any of his counterstamps (he didn't). He had a punch made that said "J. E. SKALBE / Numismatist / BOSTON" that he stamped on obsolete coins, especially worn large cents,
$800 sounds very high to me. I think it is best you didn't buy it. Aside from the signatures the cover actually does nothing for me.
On linns.com (Linn's Stamp News) one of the current stories at the top of the page shows a similar but not identical cover and states that it was created by someone from that era who was known to add forged autographs to event covers.
The full story is only available to subscribers, but it shows a picture of the similar cover.
IMO, the Roosevelt is atypical. as is the inscription.
Interesting. So maybe it’s a forgery even though it’s TR Jr. Good to know they went that far, even back then.
Just posting this here for reference:
Definitely looks similar and has Wilson instead of TR Jr. but two other signatures (Robert Peary and Burleson) are the same.
Thx!
I am not an expert on Wilson but it does not look good to me.
Maybe the Roosevelt signature on the original cover was supposed to be president Roosevelt but was just a bad forgery.
That‘s what I was thinking. I am glad you found this on Linn's Stamp News. Very helpful and good to know that after all this was probably a forgery. Good thing I didn’t spend $800 on it. Ironically even if it were authentic $800 would had been too much (considering it being TR Jr.’s signature instead of President TR).
Wouldn't be the first time someone mistakenly made the forger's bush leagues error of using a forgery as their exemplar. And it certainly won't be the last. Some authors/publishers have deliberately denoted forgeries as authentic, as spikes, to prove publication plagiarism. Those spikes are also great for catching forgers who stupidly use a forgery as a model for their forgery! Happens all the time.