A cool Golf set from the 80's... FAX PAX

coolstanley

1987 Fax Pax. A European set contains rookies of Nick Faldo, Payne Stewart, and Seve Ballesteros. Set also contains Jack Nicklaus and other stars.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Fax-Pax-36-Top-Golfers-Golf-Card-Set-New-in-Box/124612631293?hash=item1d037ddafd:g:dyoAAOSwJeBgNoFN

DBesse27

@LarkinCollector you’re a Seve super collector. Is this his RC? I thought it wasn’t.

miwlvrn

@DBesse27 said:
@LarkinCollector you’re a Seve super collector. Is this his RC? I thought it wasn’t.

Correct Dan. He has several cards that far pre-date that one. The first ones are all the various nationalities of Sportscaster cards, but if you prefer traditional-sized ones, then the first ones would be the three different Quelcom ones (two sizes of the Spanish version, plus the Portuguese variant that has a different back side to it which is by super far his rarest one) or the Venorlandus.

The Portuguese Quelcom set has a slight shuffling of the card numbers as well. A few are the same number as the Spanish checklist, but most vary by between one and three numbers off of their counterparts in the other set.

miwlvrn

BTW, same is true for Faldo, similar to the above for Ballesteros. Faldo also has several early Sportscasters plus a couple 1979 standard size issues, in addition to the later '85 Miller Press.

For Payne Stewart, there are 4 years consecutive of Miller Press cards issued earlier than the Fax Pax set, so his RC is the '83.

Nonetheless, despite not having notable RC's, the Fax Pax is still a really fun set.

coolstanley

I usually dont count sportscaster cards because they are like post cards. The 83 miller press cards are very rare.

DBesse27

@coolstanley said:
I usually dont count sportscaster cards because they are like post cards. The 83 miller press cards are very rare.

I’ve said something before. Rarity doesn’t mean a card isn’t a rookie card, like Miller press.

coolstanley

@DBesse27 said:

@coolstanley said:
I usually dont count sportscaster cards because they are like post cards. The 83 miller press cards are very rare.

I’ve said something before. Rarity doesn’t mean a card isn’t a rookie card, like Miller press.

Right. And rarity don't always mean valuable either.

DBesse27

@coolstanley said:

@DBesse27 said:

@coolstanley said:
I usually dont count sportscaster cards because they are like post cards. The 83 miller press cards are very rare.

I’ve said something before. Rarity doesn’t mean a card isn’t a rookie card, like Miller press.

Right. And rarity don't always mean valuable either.

Correct.

LarkinCollector

Don't get me wrong, I might like the set ( https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/252577 ), but it's laughable to consider 87 Fax Pax as RCs for any of those mentioned. The only HOF RC in the set is for Ian Woosnam.

I can understand not liking the size of Sportscasters, but for that same reason, many don't like this set since it's tallboy and not standard size. Though I guess anything is better than defaulting to 90 & 92 Pro Set for those three, like the HOF RC registry set does.

The 79 Venorlandus has picked up a lot of steam for Seve recently ($650 for a PSA 10 yesterday was quite a shock), w/Faldo also in that set (in addition to his 79 Golden Wonder). Yes, the Payne 83MP is scarce (and valuable), but I know of several current and former owners from here and it can be acquired with a little patience ...

Of note on the Sportscasters, it can depend on the country and specific print run to see if they are actually earlier than or equal to Seve's 79 Quelcom or Venorlandus issues. The Swedish and Finnish have a 1980 copyright, so they're out of the running. US first printing and A print run work, German first print run works also, but the B print run does not (even with a 1978 copyright, it includes wins through 1980 on the back). Same thing for Faldo, though I haven't studied the text on those as closely, the French B is definitely out since it includes 1980 wins.

FWIW, I've got 18 other different slabbed items for Seve with 1987 copyrights and earlier, so depending what you use as "rookie" criteria, I'm sure at least a few qualify that are well prior or equal to Fax Pax. And that's not counting a few other early Spanish issues that I haven't worked on the research yet to get recognized by PSA.

coolstanley

The fax pax cards, although not standard size, they are very close. They are just a tiny bit taller than standard size cards.

Autos4Alex

There's some tennis hall of fame rookies in the fax pax set. The cards are super nice. I'm also a big fan of the quelcom cards great production quality on those, lots of rookies from different sports

coolstanley

@Autos4Alex said:
There's some tennis hall of fame rookies in the fax pax set. The cards are super nice. I'm also a big fan of the quelcom cards great production quality on those, lots of rookies from different sports

Yes the 87 fax pax Tennis set is awesome. Contains the rookies of Wilander, Edberg, Becker, and a GOAT....Steffi Graf.

LarkinCollector

@coolstanley said:
The fax pax cards, although not standard size, they are very close. They are just a tiny bit taller than standard size cards.

No matter how close, they don't fit in a standard size holder from any of the TPGs ...

LarkinCollector

@coolstanley said:

@Autos4Alex said:
There's some tennis hall of fame rookies in the fax pax set. The cards are super nice. I'm also a big fan of the quelcom cards great production quality on those, lots of rookies from different sports

Yes the 87 fax pax Tennis set is awesome. Contains the rookies of Wilander, Edberg, Becker, and a GOAT....Steffi Graf.

Can you please clarify what method you use to determine a players RC? You don't seem to be going by first available or the Beckett methods.

coolstanley

@LarkinCollector said:

@coolstanley said:

@Autos4Alex said:
There's some tennis hall of fame rookies in the fax pax set. The cards are super nice. I'm also a big fan of the quelcom cards great production quality on those, lots of rookies from different sports

Yes the 87 fax pax Tennis set is awesome. Contains the rookies of Wilander, Edberg, Becker, and a GOAT....Steffi Graf.

Can you please clarify what method you use to determine a players RC? You don't seem to be going by first available or the Beckett methods.

Seems everyone has their own opinions. Because how does Barry Bonds have 20 rookie cards and a 86 fleer Jordan is also a rookie card? Its his first FLEER card correct? So I guess that makes it a rookie

LarkinCollector

There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

coolstanley

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

miwlvrn

@coolstanley said:
I usually dont count sportscaster cards because they are like post cards. The 83 miller press cards are very rare.

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

Kyle, the Wilander is the 1982 Editorial Maga - Show de Estrellas - No. 215 for his RC. I have some of them, but PSA is on a temporary hiatus from grading this set for unknown reasons so it may take supplying them with even more data on the set before these get slabbed like the other cards from it. I believe you have one of the graded Seve cards from that same '82 set that I subbed a while back if I'm not mistaken

miwlvrn

@LarkinCollector said:
Don't get me wrong, I might like the set ( https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/252577 ), but it's laughable to consider 87 Fax Pax as RCs for any of those mentioned. The only HOF RC in the set is for Ian Woosnam.

I can understand not liking the size of Sportscasters, but for that same reason, many don't like this set since it's tallboy and not standard size. Though I guess anything is better than defaulting to 90 & 92 Pro Set for those three, like the HOF RC registry set does.

The 79 Venorlandus has picked up a lot of steam for Seve recently ($650 for a PSA 10 yesterday was quite a shock), w/Faldo also in that set (in addition to his 79 Golden Wonder). Yes, the Payne 83MP is scarce (and valuable), but I know of several current and former owners from here and it can be acquired with a little patience ...

Of note on the Sportscasters, it can depend on the country and specific print run to see if they are actually earlier than or equal to Seve's 79 Quelcom or Venorlandus issues. The Swedish and Finnish have a 1980 copyright, so they're out of the running. US first printing and A print run work, German first print run works also, but the B print run does not (even with a 1978 copyright, it includes wins through 1980 on the back). Same thing for Faldo, though I haven't studied the text on those as closely, the French B is definitely out since it includes 1980 wins.

FWIW, I've got 18 other different slabbed items for Seve with 1987 copyrights and earlier, so depending what you use as "rookie" criteria, I'm sure at least a few qualify that are well prior or equal to Fax Pax. And that's not counting a few other early Spanish issues that I haven't worked on the research yet to get recognized by PSA.

For Sportscaster cards, the Faldo French (A) print run has a 1979 copyright. Finnish Faldo is 1980.

The UK Seve Sportscaster is also a 1979 issue. The Seve French (A) and (B) have 1978, but I don't remember if they reference stats or events that occurred after 1978 and I don't have them in-hand to directly reference.

miwlvrn

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

I only know for certain of 4 Wilander's issued after the 1982 Editorial Maga rookie but before the 1987 Fax Pax, but it is very likely that there were several issued in Sweden and/or Spain during that interval. I'd be curious to hear about them too.

LarkinCollector

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:
I usually dont count sportscaster cards because they are like post cards. The 83 miller press cards are very rare.

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

Kyle, the Wilander is the 1982 Editorial Maga - Show de Estrellas - No. 215 for his RC. I have some of them, but PSA is on a temporary hiatus from grading this set for unknown reasons so it may take supplying them with even more data on the set before these get slabbed like the other cards from it. I believe you have one of the graded Seve cards from that same '82 set that I subbed a while back if I'm not mistaken

Yep, I've got a graded Seve. Forgot Wilander was in that one, but don't expect PSA to grade any more.
I think the issue with PSA grading them is them being issued in both packs and sheets and not being willing to determine which are hand cut vs. pack issued. I don't have my sports ones handy, but ...

There's a green text back version also, IIRC.

LarkinCollector

@miwlvrn said:

@LarkinCollector said:
Don't get me wrong, I might like the set ( https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/252577 ), but it's laughable to consider 87 Fax Pax as RCs for any of those mentioned. The only HOF RC in the set is for Ian Woosnam.

I can understand not liking the size of Sportscasters, but for that same reason, many don't like this set since it's tallboy and not standard size. Though I guess anything is better than defaulting to 90 & 92 Pro Set for those three, like the HOF RC registry set does.

The 79 Venorlandus has picked up a lot of steam for Seve recently ($650 for a PSA 10 yesterday was quite a shock), w/Faldo also in that set (in addition to his 79 Golden Wonder). Yes, the Payne 83MP is scarce (and valuable), but I know of several current and former owners from here and it can be acquired with a little patience ...

Of note on the Sportscasters, it can depend on the country and specific print run to see if they are actually earlier than or equal to Seve's 79 Quelcom or Venorlandus issues. The Swedish and Finnish have a 1980 copyright, so they're out of the running. US first printing and A print run work, German first print run works also, but the B print run does not (even with a 1978 copyright, it includes wins through 1980 on the back). Same thing for Faldo, though I haven't studied the text on those as closely, the French B is definitely out since it includes 1980 wins.

FWIW, I've got 18 other different slabbed items for Seve with 1987 copyrights and earlier, so depending what you use as "rookie" criteria, I'm sure at least a few qualify that are well prior or equal to Fax Pax. And that's not counting a few other early Spanish issues that I haven't worked on the research yet to get recognized by PSA.

For Sportscaster cards, the Faldo French (A) print run has a 1979 copyright. Finnish Faldo is 1980.

The UK Seve Sportscaster is also a 1979 issue. The Seve French (A) and (B) have 1978, but I don't remember if they reference stats or events that occurred after 1978 and I don't have them in-hand to directly reference.

Some countries changed copyrights when they updated text, others didn't. One of these times I have a week or so off, I need to really dig through the differences.

LarkinCollector

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

I only know for certain of 4 Wilander's issued after the 1982 Editorial Maga rookie but before the 1987 Fax Pax, but it is very likely that there were several issued in Sweden and/or Spain during that interval. I'd be curious to hear about them too.

I was counting between the 83 & 91, looks like there's only 4 others prior to 87 besides the Ed Brug, but 8 other 1987 cards besides the Fax Pax.

83 Ed Brug for reference ...
https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/misc-cards/1983-editorial-bruguera/matts-wilander/values/2432899

miwlvrn

While we're at it, here are a couple more fun Seve cards I've picked up over the years, in case you don't have them yet:

1984 Ediciones Este - Tele Anuncios - No. 25

1987 Cromos ROS, S.A. - Caricaturas 22 - No. 56 (two different versions, white back and gray back)

1992 Ediciones Milano - Caricaturas - No. 123

coolstanley

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

miwlvrn

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

The 1983 Ed. Bruguera ones are not very difficult to find, actually. I have even found a few uncut still stapled into the magazine.

coolstanley

@LarkinCollector said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

I only know for certain of 4 Wilander's issued after the 1982 Editorial Maga rookie but before the 1987 Fax Pax, but it is very likely that there were several issued in Sweden and/or Spain during that interval. I'd be curious to hear about them too.

I was counting between the 83 & 91, looks like there's only 4 others prior to 87 besides the Ed Brug, but 8 other 1987 cards besides the Fax Pax.

83 Ed Brug for reference ...
https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/misc-cards/1983-editorial-bruguera/matts-wilander/values/2432899

Who's the guy on the left? Its not Wilander.

coolstanley

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

The 1983 Ed. Bruguera ones are not very difficult to find, actually. I have even found a few uncut still stapled into the magazine.

I found one on ebay from Spain. But its a sticker.

Autos4Alex

Can you guys post a picture of the 1982 wilander? I had seen others from that set but for some reason had it catalogued as from the 90's. While I have the 83 referenced, the size quality and wrong pictures have always led me to favor the panini as his rookie for my collection. There is of course the buster magazine card as well, but I thought the quality of the panini made it the key hof card.

coolstanley

@Autos4Alex said:
Can you guys post a picture of the 1982 wilander? I had seen others from that set but for some reason had it catalogued as from the 90's. While I have the 83 referenced, the size quality and wrong pictures have always led me to favor the panini as his rookie for my collection. There is of course the buster magazine card as well, but I thought the quality of the panini made it the key hof card.

His panini cards are ok looking. I personally like his fax pax rookie the best. The card stock is nice and a great action shot. I also like his 86 silva costa calendar card.

miwlvrn

@Autos4Alex said:
Can you guys post a picture of the 1982 wilander? I had seen others from that set but for some reason had it catalogued as from the 90's. While I have the 83 referenced, the size quality and wrong pictures have always led me to favor the panini as his rookie for my collection. There is of course the buster magazine card as well, but I thought the quality of the panini made it the key hof card.

Yes, I'll get that Wilander scanned for you. I'll have to dig through my N9 catacombs to find it so it might take a bit, but can do. The Ed. Maga set does not have 1982 printed on the individual items, but it does say 1982 on the associated album that you were supposed to put them into as you collected them.

As for 1983 Ed. Bruguera Seve card, in case anyone is interested, the panel that includes him has the following:

67 Severiano Ballesteros / 68 J.M.Canizares / 69 Jack Nicklaus / 70 Manuel Pinero / 71 Luis Alvarez Cervera / 72 Alejandro Zambrano

I'm going to have to go through a stack of '83 magazines I have to find which panel has the Wilander.

miwlvrn

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

The 1983 Ed. Bruguera ones are not very difficult to find, actually. I have even found a few uncut still stapled into the magazine.

I found one on ebay from Spain. But its a sticker.

It should not be a sticker. Maybe you found one from a different set.

LarkinCollector

@miwlvrn said:

@Autos4Alex said:
Can you guys post a picture of the 1982 wilander? I had seen others from that set but for some reason had it catalogued as from the 90's. While I have the 83 referenced, the size quality and wrong pictures have always led me to favor the panini as his rookie for my collection. There is of course the buster magazine card as well, but I thought the quality of the panini made it the key hof card.

Yes, I'll get that Wilander scanned for you. I'll have to dig through my N9 catacombs to find it so it might take a bit, but can do. The Ed. Maga set does not have 1982 printed on the individual items, but it does say 1982 on the associated album that you were supposed to put them into as you collected them.

As for 1983 Ed. Bruguera Seve card, in case anyone is interested, the panel that includes him has the following:

67 Severiano Ballesteros / 68 J.M.Canizares / 69 Jack Nicklaus / 70 Manuel Pinero / 71 Luis Alvarez Cervera / 72 Alejandro Zambrano

I'm going to have to go through a stack of '83 magazines I have to find which panel has the Wilander.

91 Martina Navratilova
92 Manuel Orantes
93 Guillermo Vilas
94 Mats Wilander
95 Alejandro Abascal
96 Miguel Noguer

Try Super Tio Vivo #128 or Super Zipi Y Zape #138

LarkinCollector

@miwlvrn said:
While we're at it, here are a couple more fun Seve cards I've picked up over the years, in case you don't have them yet:

1984 Ediciones Este - Tele Anuncios - No. 25

1987 Cromos ROS, S.A. - Caricaturas 22 - No. 56 (two different versions, white back and gray back)

1992 Ediciones Milano - Caricaturas - No. 123

I know I've got the first two, but I'll have to dig them up to see if I have both variations of the Caricaturas 22. I know I've also got images of all the pages of that album if I ever get time to checklist it.

The Ed Milano doesn't sound familiar, though I have some others I haven't been able to associate with a set yet so perhaps it's in with those. The 1985 Milton Bradley TV Times is another I need to give a shot, pretty sure I published the checklist on TCDB already.

LarkinCollector

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

Weird, I just found 3 of the comics that contain these in under 5 minutes for 2-4 Euros each.

LarkinCollector

@Autos4Alex said:
Can you guys post a picture of the 1982 wilander? I had seen others from that set but for some reason had it catalogued as from the 90's. While I have the 83 referenced, the size quality and wrong pictures have always led me to favor the panini as his rookie for my collection. There is of course the buster magazine card as well, but I thought the quality of the panini made it the key hof card.

Not mine, but available for sale for 20 Euros right now ...

miwlvrn

@LarkinCollector said:

@miwlvrn said:

While we're at it, here are a couple more fun Seve cards I've picked up over the years, in case you don't have them yet:

1984 Ediciones Este - Tele Anuncios - No. 25

1987 Cromos ROS, S.A. - Caricaturas 22 - No. 56 (two different versions, white back and gray back)

1992 Ediciones Milano - Caricaturas - No. 123

I know I've got the first two, but I'll have to dig them up to see if I have both variations of the Caricaturas 22. I know I've also got images of all the pages of that album if I ever get time to checklist it.

The Ed Milano doesn't sound familiar, though I have some others I haven't been able to associate with a set yet so perhaps it's in with those. The 1985 Milton Bradley TV Times is another I need to give a shot, pretty sure I published the checklist on TCDB already.

Here are some example pics of a 1992 Milano:

DBesse27

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

Assuming you were right about the scarcity of the Ed Brug, which it sounds like you're not, I would still repeat: scarcity does not preclude a card from being a "true rookie." It seems like one of your criteria for a "rookie card" is that it's easy to find. I have to say, that's a new one to me. Ask Pele collectors whether his rookie card is easy to track down.

miwlvrn

@DBesse27 said:

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

Assuming you were right about the scarcity of the Ed Brug, which it sounds like you're not, I would still repeat: scarcity does not preclude a card from being a "true rookie." It seems like one of your criteria for a "rookie card" is that it's easy to find. I have to say, that's a new one to me. Ask Pele collectors whether his rookie card is easy to track down.

Yes Dan, both of the two different 1957 Balas sets' Pele cards, which are his true rookies, are extremely difficult to track down. The people who claim for example that they can call a 1964 Panini his rookie just because it is his first Panini card are just plain wrong about that nomenclature.

miwlvrn

@miwlvrn said:

@DBesse27 said:

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

Assuming you were right about the scarcity of the Ed Brug, which it sounds like you're not, I would still repeat: scarcity does not preclude a card from being a "true rookie." It seems like one of your criteria for a "rookie card" is that it's easy to find. I have to say, that's a new one to me. Ask Pele collectors whether his rookie card is easy to track down.

Yes Dan, both of the two different 1957 Balas sets' Pele cards, which are his true rookies, are extremely difficult to track down. The people who claim for example that they can call a 1964 Panini his rookie just because it is his first Panini card are just plain wrong about that nomenclature.

Here is a link to a prior sale of a PSA 1.5 1957 Pele. It was over $182k on this link (reported as over $186k on PSA's completed auctions page). This item could go for a million in sales price today with the way prices are bumping.

https://goldinauctions.com/1957_Oliveira___Benassi_Balas_Equipe__54_Pele_Rook-LOT71000.aspx

coolstanley

@DBesse27 said:

@coolstanley said:

@miwlvrn said:

@coolstanley said:

@LarkinCollector said:
There are only two methods I'm aware of, for MJ:
First available: 1984-85 Star #101
Becket (pack issued, nationally distributed, not boxed set, etc.): 1986 Fleer #57

Calling everything issued in between those two "rookies" doesn't make any sense.

For Wilander, it's either the 1983 Ed Brug or the 1991 NetPro, depending which method you use, not the dozen plus issues in between all being RCs also.

I can't see the 91 being a rookie. He was almost retired by then lol. That makes no sense. Never seen a 83 ed brug. Is that one of those European stickers? What other 12 issues are you referring too?

No, 1983 Editorial Bruguera was not a sticker set. They were cardboard card-stock printed items that were available inside the Bruguera magazine/comics as a premium/insert, issued in panels intended to be hand-cut.

Well good luck if anyone wants to find one of those lol. Just like the pre 2003 Federer magazine cut outs. My chances of winning the lottery are probably better.

Assuming you were right about the scarcity of the Ed Brug, which it sounds like you're not, I would still repeat: scarcity does not preclude a card from being a "true rookie." It seems like one of your criteria for a "rookie card" is that it's easy to find. I have to say, that's a new one to me. Ask Pele collectors whether his rookie card is easy to track down.

well, i had no clue they were in comic books lol.