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There may be sharp methods to tone out gold if there were a financial incentive to do so; and I would not expect people to share their secrets. You'd have to ask those who have these coins where they got their coins and what their history was. From another chemistry PhD who mentioned the aluminum bake method for old US silver coins saying that it brings up the copper. I don't know how that would work with gold coins.
@logger7 said:
There may be sharp methods to tone out gold if there were a financial incentive to do so; and I would not expect people to share their secrets. You'd have to ask those who have these coins where they got their coins and what their history was. From another chemistry PhD who mentioned the aluminum bake method for old US silver coins saying that it brings up the copper. I don't know how that would work with gold coins.
Well, both of these came off eBay. The saint was in an old icg au55 holder, and the $5 belonged to a family who did not own many coins. I think they said it had been stored in a drawer for a long time. I have the story of it saved somewhere. I generally do try to ask the seller where they got it and the story of it, but most of the time they have no idea when or how it toned. Oh, and most nicely toned gold sells for a big premium, so there would be incentive for more of it to be out there. But it’s pretty rare. I am always looking for it, but can go months and months without finding anything nice.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@jwitten said:
The new trueviews popped today. Any opinion on if the new or old pics are better?
Yes, my opinion is that the pictures which look more accurate are the better ones and you’re the only one in a position to know.
Can't both pics be accurate depending on the lighting used?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@cameonut2011 said:
For the stuff that isn’t doctored, toning is typically caused when the alloy is not mixed or distributed evenly and copper, silver, and the rest of the non gold portion of the alloy are concentrated near the surface. I’m therefore not surprised you might see wildly varying results.
I am not sure this is completely correct, these alloys are refined from Au concentrated melts at several thousand C. They get fairly well mixed up and when planchets are made from the quench there is no reason for the surfaces to have any more or less Ag or Cu in them relative to the interiors. Whether the splotchy toning on the surface means inhomogeneous mixtures of the alloys, one would have to do in-situ analyrtical scans with something like and SEM using EDS. Is there some data published on this? It may have more to do with what kinds of volatile compounds are on the surfaces in any given spot to cause reaction, but one would have to do analytical work to determine this.
Best, SH
If color/toning has more to do with “what kinds of volatile compounds are on the surfaces...”. would that account for copper spots which sometimes reappear after being removed?
Copper spots on gold coins are an example of unmixing for sure, and that is a very good point. I am wondering if this happens during the quench (rapid cool down), need to look at metallurgy papers to see.....
@jwitten said:
The new trueviews popped today. Any opinion on if the new or old pics are better?
For the most part I like the new images better although it reveals a lot more wear on the Saint. I might have guessed lower AU if I had seen those originally. Still a neat coin.
I am surprised that there has not been more discussion about the fact these had to be graded up to 3 times to get in a non details holder. The only off hand comment was by tradedollarnut right after the multiple tries was mentioned. I am 100% in on PCGS grading but I guess since I have never sent any coins in to be graded I did not realize that it was common to resubmit until you get the grade you want. By the way I love the look of these coins.
@willy said:
I am surprised that there has not been more discussion about the fact these had to be graded up to 3 times to get in a non details holder. The only off hand comment was by tradedollarnut right after the multiple tries was mentioned. I am 100% in on PCGS grading but I guess since I have never sent any coins in to be graded I did not realize that it was common to resubmit until you get the grade you want. By the way I love the look of these coins.
I am surprised too. But maybe no one wants to “get in trouble” talking about it. One coin graded three times, another two, and no grades were ever the same. Interesting.
@willy said:
I am surprised that there has not been more discussion about the fact these had to be graded up to 3 times to get in a non details holder. The only off hand comment was by tradedollarnut right after the multiple tries was mentioned. I am 100% in on PCGS grading but I guess since I have never sent any coins in to be graded I did not realize that it was common to resubmit until you get the grade you want. By the way I love the look of these coins.
I am surprised too. But maybe no one wants to “get in trouble” talking about it. One coin graded three times, another two, and no grades were ever the same. Interesting.
I'm just glad they finally got it right.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Comments
JM would know he is a chem professor
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
.
Spacehayduke is also a chemistry Ph.D. who was at one point and may still be a chemistry professor.
There may be sharp methods to tone out gold if there were a financial incentive to do so; and I would not expect people to share their secrets. You'd have to ask those who have these coins where they got their coins and what their history was. From another chemistry PhD who mentioned the aluminum bake method for old US silver coins saying that it brings up the copper. I don't know how that would work with gold coins.
Well, both of these came off eBay. The saint was in an old icg au55 holder, and the $5 belonged to a family who did not own many coins. I think they said it had been stored in a drawer for a long time. I have the story of it saved somewhere. I generally do try to ask the seller where they got it and the story of it, but most of the time they have no idea when or how it toned. Oh, and most nicely toned gold sells for a big premium, so there would be incentive for more of it to be out there. But it’s pretty rare. I am always looking for it, but can go months and months without finding anything nice.
Cool looking coins!
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The new trueviews popped today. Any opinion on if the new or old pics are better?
i really like the both of them regardless of the grade, fwiw
Yes, my opinion is that the pictures which look more accurate are the better ones and you’re the only one in a position to know.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Can't both pics be accurate depending on the lighting used?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
100% yes. That's why I'm having a hard time deciding which pics I like best! lol
Of course they can. But often, I see owners of coins opt for the image which is more flattering, even if less accurate.
And unlike us, the OP knows what his coins look like in hand. So how could any of us know which pictures are better?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Copper spots on gold coins are an example of unmixing for sure, and that is a very good point. I am wondering if this happens during the quench (rapid cool down), need to look at metallurgy papers to see.....
Best, SH
For the most part I like the new images better although it reveals a lot more wear on the Saint. I might have guessed lower AU if I had seen those originally. Still a neat coin.
Looks like I won, thank you for a very cool give away
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I am surprised that there has not been more discussion about the fact these had to be graded up to 3 times to get in a non details holder. The only off hand comment was by tradedollarnut right after the multiple tries was mentioned. I am 100% in on PCGS grading but I guess since I have never sent any coins in to be graded I did not realize that it was common to resubmit until you get the grade you want. By the way I love the look of these coins.
WOW - gorgeous. You suck.
I am surprised too. But maybe no one wants to “get in trouble” talking about it. One coin graded three times, another two, and no grades were ever the same. Interesting.
I'm just glad they finally got it right.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire