Italy- grade posted with collector mindset commentary

coinkat

what do you think?

1984worldcoins

I love it. Minted at the Birmingham Mint, originally known as Heaton's Mint or Ralph Heaton & Sons, in Birmingham, England, started producing tokens and coins in 1850 as a private enterprise, separate from, but in co-operation with the Royal Mint. There are some made by the Rome Mint (Italy) too. This one is a very good grade.

harasha

Certainly RE D.

TwoKopeiki

Looks great! Thanks for the background @1984worldcoins

angelo43

Check the pops for the Rome mint one and you will see that it's rarer than normal. But according to a dealer in Italy it's not so rare in ms grades. beautiful coin

coinkat

I posted this coin in an effort to get collectors to contemplate how they collect and what is important to them.

Our host graded this MS64 RB- And it looks attractive for the grade. So this is a common coin in a somewhat uncommon grade but is did not grade 65. What would influence your opinion as to whether it is a coin that you would consider for an Umberto type set or a date set? Is the look of this coin more or less important than the grade or does it even matter?

I like buying raw coins and submitting- this was submitted about 10 years ago. Would you submit this coin today? The other choices are would you pay a premium and buy a comparable example also graded? In this instance PCGS has graded 6 other 64 RB examples. And finally, the other opinion is would a raw coin satisfy your collecting objectives?

There are no right or wrong answers... it is more of an effort to understand and appreciate the mindset of collectors.

1984worldcoins

@coinkat this is what I would do: I would buy the coin if it was in my special interest bracket; in order to buy it I need to like it, slabbed or not; the one that appears the best grade (of the same type) I would send to grading if its not graded yet. If it is already graded I would pay a premium. I hope this helps.

bidask

I like buying raw coins as well . Most I do try to get graded . Often with mixed results in that depending what I pay for a
raw coin ....I have lost alot of money/ value if it came back body bagged and vice-versa if it came back at favorable grade.

edit to add I have a bunch of raw coins as well that will remain raw...:)

Abuelo

Very nice coin.

angelo43

I have dups of this coin but I have over 1000 graded Italians The coin can be had raw and you would make a premium if you got a 64 grade. I just look for the beauty of the coin and the thought that sometime in the future someone will be selling and they might not get ripped off if it's in a PGCS or NGC holder

neildrobertson

The coin is nice. It has a coloring that I don't love on copper. I usually stay away from coins that are bright copper but have brown areas on the high points. I like to see a little more overall reddening or darkening of the orange color accross the board with luster coming through the brown areas. When I factor in the fact that the strike is not completely even and centered too, it's not a permanent keeper. I would probably still buy it for the right price and be happy to own it until I found a nicer one.

I say this because I am currently debating this topic over some of my copper coins. I have a MS64RB copper coin in my type set that has a lot of the qualities I look for. And I will constantly encounter higher graded coins that don't have those qualities. I'll paste an example below.

The first coin is my ms64rb example. The second is an MS67 example that is currently for sale. While in a great state of preservation, the MS67 is probably not the best type piece. The first coin has a good strike that's even. The rims are nearly full all the way around. The fields are flat, smooth, and flashy. The lettering is smoother and crisper, which is indicative of fresh dies. My photography is not the best and doesn't show that clearly. The second coin, the MS67, has a great color. However, it has multiple die cracks and rough fields, which is indicative of worn dies. The strike is actually fairly strong but is not completely even and does not have full rims. There's even some die clashing, which is interesting, but not something I want in a type piece. I guess you could say that once you get to ms64-65, I start valuing color, strike, and die state more than the TPGs do.

neildrobertson

On the subject of grades - I still don't put much weight in 90+% of the population report numbers for world coins. If any accurately represent the distribution of coins available, it's probably by coincidence. The numbers aren't there, statistically speaking, to make a statement about the relative quality of the coin. That still doesn't seem to stop people from paying extra money for world top pops.

If it were my coin and I thought it would make a top pop, then I would grade it and sell it. I know I would make money off it, and I know there would be other coins like it out there. If I wanted to keep it, then I wouldn't put too much weight into getting it graded unless I really wanted it for a registry set.

coinkat

good to see someone else has submitted a One Pfennig coin here... obviously your two are of the older style German Imperial Eagle used from the time of unification through 1889. They both look to be exceptional examples

neildrobertson

@coinkat said:
good to see someone else has submitted a One Pfennig coin here... obviously your two are of the older style German Imperial Eagle used from the time of unification through 1889. They both look to be exceptional examples

To be clear, the second one isn't mine. It's currently up for sale. I just wanted to use it as an example of the factors that would drive me to refrain from pursuing a 2 or 3 point upgrade.