A champion has emerged!
ReggieCleveland
Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was always curious to see whether the Topps Traded Tiffany or the Leaf would separate itself and become the key Greg Maddux rookie card. Well, I think we have our answer.
Two days ago an '87 Leaf Maddux PSA 10 sold for $1,987. I'm fairly certain the Traded Tiffany doesn't have a sale over $1k.
Things are getting crazy out there, people. Remember to wear all appropriate safety gear.
Arthur
1
Comments
Ive been watching. Interesting race to the top.
I "accidentally" bought the Leaf 10 years ago. Price has been stagnant a long time.
I don't think Tiffany is done yet. PWCC has one up now
They also have two Leaf Madduxes (Maddii?) up, as well, that are both already sniffing $1k. The $1,987 sale was a "normal guy" seller. If these two Maddux blow past $2k then I can see some of the current BINs getting hit and then it's just Bedlam.
Arthur
I prefer the Leaf anyway.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, Dwight Evans, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
I find the 1987 Leaf logo jarring. 1985 Leaf logo is awesome.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
You can get this BCCG 10 Leaf Maddux for the low opening bid of $8999 or hit the BIN for $12,500. The exact card sold a little over a week ago for $39.99.
Yes, prefer Leaf. What are 9’s already $200?
Well, my Leaf will be up FS in BST in about 10 min if anyone wants to ride the snake.
Arthur
Wow!!! Add this card to the list of 'cards I have multiples of raw copies that I'll be looking at with a loupe and subbing'
Leaf looks to be the winner. Prolly gonna be your best Maddux RC going forward.
Tiffany $1375 at PWCC auction
Makes sense. The '87 Donruss has always been the leader out of the regular '87 issues. I think at some point people are going to re-examine his career and really start to talk about him as a top-10 pitcher of All-Time -- 4x Cy Youngs (in a row), 4x ERA titles, 355 Wins, 3,371 Ks 18 gold gloves (!), career 1.8 BB/9, 5,000 innings (!), a World Series title... and all smack dab throughout the steroids era with hitters crushing bombs (they didn't off him with a CAREER 0.6 HR/9).
And he did it without high heat. Just filthy control, movement, and IQ. It's amazing to me how easily and earnestly so many people want to discount or even disregard hitters' stats from this era of the game yet I NEVER hear them praise the pitchers who were outstanding throughout this period like Maddux, Smoltz, Pedro, etc. These guys deserve more credit.
Who knows? Maybe Maddux actually is getting his due now and that why his Leaf is going up $500 every day.
Arthur
I agree. Even tho I'm a Philly fan, I loved watching him pitch.
Incredible career numbers; ranks up there with the best of the best
Grounders and Ks all day long
https://youtube.com/watch?v=dCjEYPSzaIg
They just don't make them like Maddux anymore. Didn't try to strikeout, and rarely walked batters. 85 pitch complete games in 2 hours were commonplace with him on the mound. Nowadays, it's all about velocity, strikeouts, and 3.5 hour games, but Maddux showed what you can do if you try to get them out rather than strike them out.
All that being said, one of my all time favorite Tony Gwynn stats was his lifetime .415 average against Maddux.
Loved watching Maddux and Gwynn in the 1990's.
It would appear that Leaf would like to throw its hat in the ring for all of the '87 title shots. I think the Bonds is still going to have a tough time beating the OPC though. I'm extra curious to see either of the two low pop cards come to market in this newfound frenzy -- the Bo and the McGwire. I know I pulled both of mine from my BST listings because "fathoming" is not my forte these days.
Arthur
that is interesting. I have always considered Mad dog a top 10 all time pitcher. I thought others did as well. He was fantastic and one of my very favorites to watch back in the 90s
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I have always preferred both the leaf and OPC version of all players cards. just a little different.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
That 10 area all time is tricky....who is in, who is out...where is Clemens in there? Cross -era is harder to figure for pitchers.
I mean, was Grover Alexander actually better than Randy Johnson?
Really sticky subject.
I was just thinking last week about ripping a couple 1987 Leaf boxes that keep trying to jump off my shelf and accidentally pop open, but decided to wait after I saw the price bump on grading. If the big RC's keep going up, I guess it justifies covering the increased fee.
we can only accurately compare era dominance. it is very difficult for sure. we get into quite the donnybrooks over this on the sports talk forum. you should join us
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Randy Johnson is the greatest left-hander in history...flame on...LOL
Thanks, don't mind if I do.
Bob Gibson. The End.
LOL
Just going through some old spreadsheets...
• On May 1, 2019, there were 457 PSA 10s of the '87 Leaf Maddux. Well prior to the Covid lockdown and market turkey poop. Today, there are 478 PSA 10s of the '87 Leaf Maddux. Undoubtedly, some are backed up in the intestines of PSA but this doesn't bode well for a swath of 10s to be hitting the market in the future.
• There are nearly the same amount of PSA 10 '87 Leaf McGwires (39) as there are PSA 10 '85 Topps Tiffany McGwires (35). The Tiffany is a $10,000-$12,000 card (no, I'm obviously not suggesting the Leaf should be that valuable, just having fun with pop reports and correlations).
Arthur
Interesting thought, I hope the leaf McGwire reaches that kind of value.
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
No chance. While the '87 Donruss Rated Rookie is a handsome card, the '85 Topps Olympic card has a precedence of being magma hot. Back when McGwire and Sosa were chasing the record you could trade a NM '85 McGwire for three aircraft carriers. That Tiffany will always be the chosen one among McGwire collectors, rightfully so.
But looking at the Maddux and Bonds sales, it's hard to see a McGwire sell for $500 and think it's not going to be making a run itself at some point. I think it depends on the eventual popularity of this particular Leaf set. If you had asked me a year ago if I thought the set would ever be able to crossover into wide demand I would have said no. But after seeing what the Maddux and Bonds have done, as well as the interest in the lower tier Rated Rookies, I think it can actually make a complete breakthrough.
It's not going to happen overnight though. One thing it has going for itself is the low pop of three of the bigger cards -- Bonds, Bo, and McGwire. All of them with PSA 10 pops under 100. As the Maddux made its move, it drew more Maddux cards out looking for paydays. I think it peaked north of $3k but has settled in around $2k or a little less. But we're still finishing out the owners that wanted to cash in. Once they've sold, the Maddux will climb again.
But the other three, yeah, I can see a handdful coming out for a payday but there just aren't that many out there to begin with to satiate demand when the frenzy run goes off. I think they'll have a more steady increase.
It's crazy to think that all of this is happening without any of them -- Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Bo, Canseco, Mattingly, McGriff, Will Clark -- getting into the HOF or showing signs that it is imminent.
Arthur
Arthur,
My spreadsheet has Maddux Leaf pop 159 on 2/1/2013
That is 14.5% annual growth rate in pop.
Plugging in your timeframe is 2.44% annualized
Great stuff here guys, thanks for the analysis and insights.
The meteoric rise in the price of 87 Leaf wax will be a limiting factor in future PSA10 production (not to mention increased PSA fees and wait times). Back in May 2020 I bought a bunch of wrapped boxes from BBCE at $89 per. About a month ago I picked up some FASC from D&A at $315. Those prices are relics of the past. This box has exploded and collectors are not releasing them into the marketplace fast enough to meet demand. I can’t see many busting packs anymore when BBCE boxes sell for $600-750.
John
Whoa, I had no idea the boxes had gotten that expensive. I mean, realistically, even if they were still $100 each I don't think we would see many new examples. The boxes were just so hard to come by for years and even when Steve got some they'd be gone in less than 24 hours. I think the pop report numbers and the inclusion of Bo Jackson and Greg Maddux are going to eventually push Leaf past O-Pee-Chee for 1987.
Arthur
With where the Maddux, Bo Jackson, Mark McGwire and Barry bonds are selling for I understand the price of 1987 leaf at $750 an authenticated box, but I don’t understand how the 1985 leaf sells at just the same amount?? I would think the 85 leaf with Clemens, Golden and Puckett with a lower production number would go for at least 50% more.
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies