@MFeld said:
I had my own business through early 2013, so was probably guilty. Do you have private insurance and if so, what is the company’s recommendation regarding declaration of value for shipping?
I do not use private insurance myself but at one time worked for someone who did. The insurance company policy was to ship based on USPS regulations for whatever service level we chose to use. There was no recommendation to declare other than full value for registered shipments.
If one's insurance company instructed one to ship in a specific way, one would normally conclude that they knew what they were talking about. After all, it's their business, right? How would knowing that your insurance company made recommendations contrary to USPS policy (either knowing or unknowing) affect your opinion of your insurance company?
@MFeld said:
I had my own business through early 2013, so was probably guilty. Do you have private insurance and if so, what is the company’s recommendation regarding declaration of value for shipping?
I do not use private insurance myself but at one time worked for someone who did. The insurance company policy was to ship based on USPS regulations for whatever service level we chose to use. There was no recommendation to declare other than full value for registered shipments.
If one's insurance company instructed one to ship in a specific way, one would normally conclude that they knew what they were talking about. After all, it's their business, right? How would knowing that your insurance company made recommendations contrary to USPS policy (either knowing or unknowing) affect your opinion of your insurance company?
If, as I think I remember, that’s what the insurance company recommended, in the absence of additional information, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Because if there were a loss, my claim would be with the insurance company - the party taking the risk - not the post office.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The requirement to declare full value hasn't always existed. I'm not interested enough to attempt to pin down the exact date but the post office modified their policy sometime after around 2010 (WAG). Declaring less than full value would not be a lie if it was done before that time.
The requirement to "declare full value" and not be a liar was around since at least as early as 2004 as indicated in the form shown above. I was a liar back then as well and will likely continue to be a postal liar until I'm banned from Tweeter.
Declaring a zero value when shipping registered is how one declines (and does not pay for) usps insurance. It is the only way to decline the insurance. Trust me, I'm telling the truth when I say I do not want usps insurance for this shipment.
If/when I have done it, I wasn't refused service by the USPS employees. They took the package and mailed it.
FYI - A rival TPG offers shipping discount via a third party. https://shipandinsure.com/ (on the webpage, in the far right column, this TPG is listed). Also ANA members may use this service.
@MasonG said: "So, feel free to claim $0 value on the form. It simply means you have no claim against usps in the future and I am quite sure usps is just fine with that."
As I noted, some people will lie about the value of their package and others won't.
When I had my own business and private insurance, if I remember correctly, the insurance co. recommended that I declare only a minimal insured value when shipping through the U.S.P.S.
If declaring less than full value is always lying, I lied.
The requirement to declare full value hasn't always existed. I'm not interested enough to attempt to pin down the exact date but the post office modified their policy sometime after around 2010 (WAG). Declaring less than full value would not be a lie if it was done before that time.
I had my own business through early 2013, so was probably guilty. Do you have private insurance and if so, what is the company’s recommendation regarding declaration of value for shipping?
They also tell you how to and by whom to ship it if you want their coverage IIRC.
@MFeld said:
Because if there were a loss, my claim would be with the insurance company - the party taking the risk - not the post office.
True enough, the insurance company is taking the risk of loss. However, the post office is paying the cost (including extra security) to deliver your registered package and, among their policies for registered mail is this:
Private insurance carried on Registered Mail does not modify the requirements for declaring the full value.
I'm not seeing a lot of wiggle room there. But then, maybe that's just me.
@MFeld said:
Because if there were a loss, my claim would be with the insurance company - the party taking the risk - not the post office.
True enough, the insurance company is taking the risk of loss. However, the post office is paying the cost (including extra security) to deliver your registered package and, among their policies for registered mail is this:
Private insurance carried on Registered Mail does not modify the requirements for declaring the full value.
I'm not seeing a lot of wiggle room there. But then, maybe that's just me.
I’m not seeing any and in addition to other services, I did use registered mail, on occasion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Old school high value entombment: When I ship I use Reinforced Gummed Tape Brown Kraft Paper Roll Water Activated Packing Sealing tape to entomb the entire box. I then have the shipping service (i.e. USPS) randomly date stamp the overlaps of sealing tape around the entombed box (each side, each 90 degree angle (by rolling the stamp on the edges of the 90 degree angle). If the entombed box is breached, it can be easily seen during shipment/transfers. I normally ship USPS registered. This always give me a piece of mind that I sealed it in my box and the USPS verified that my box was sealed when they accepted it for shipment. If the entombed box is breached, the USPS has to explain to me what happened and pay me the insured value.
@MFeld said:
Because if there were a loss, my claim would be with the insurance company - the party taking the risk - not the post office.
True enough, the insurance company is taking the risk of loss. However, the post office is paying the cost (including extra security) to deliver your registered package and, among their policies for registered mail is this:
Private insurance carried on Registered Mail does not modify the requirements for declaring the full value.
I'm not seeing a lot of wiggle room there. But then, maybe that's just me.
And with a declared value of $0 you are still paying the registered fee (with no additional charge for insurance) which is for the post office to deliver your registered package.
Lots of wiggle room: the sender determines what the full value is using whatever method he chooses. I choose a method that allows me to declare $0. Usps is only concerned that some value (even if $0) is declared on the form. This explains why they never question a $0 entry.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
@MFeld said:
Because if there were a loss, my claim would be with the insurance company - the party taking the risk - not the post office.
True enough, the insurance company is taking the risk of loss. However, the post office is paying the cost (including extra security) to deliver your registered package and, among their policies for registered mail is this:
Private insurance carried on Registered Mail does not modify the requirements for declaring the full value.
I'm not seeing a lot of wiggle room there. But then, maybe that's just me.
You'd need a whole lot more than a $2K package in order to get their "extra" security. It's what the extra fee for shipments above and beyond their indemnification limit is for. You'd best be declaring true value in that circumstance or you will be SOL if you have a claim and they find out that you were untruthful.
@DrDarryl said:
Old school high value entombment: When I ship I use Reinforced Gummed Tape Brown Kraft Paper Roll Water Activated Packing Sealing tape to entomb the entire box. I then have the shipping service (i.e. USPS) randomly date stamp the overlaps of sealing tape around the entombed box (each side, each 90 degree angle (by rolling the stamp on the edges of the 90 degree angle). If the entombed box is breached, it can be easily seen during shipment/transfers. I normally ship USPS registered. This always give me a piece of mind that I sealed it in my box and the USPS verified that my box was sealed when they accepted it for shipment. If the entombed box is breached, the USPS has to explain to me what happened and pay me the insured value.
By "entombing" the box with $13.20 tape you are wasting tape (same tape is cheaper at Staples). Tape is only required to cover the seams of the box/cardboard envelope. Any more application is a waste of tape and if you are using a flat rate priority box, the accepting clerk will need to verify the box in order to give your the appropriate flat rate.
No need to request usps to date stamp the edges of the tape, they are required to do it. Each postal employee taking possession of the shipment checks the date stamps for tampering before accepting possession of the shipment. This chain of custody is what makes registered mail secure and slow. It also tells usps which employee was the last to handle a missing registered package.
FWIW, most missing registered packages are found in post office safes where they were put for temporary safekeeping and then forgotten. This is also the reason why tracking will often show registered in one transit location longer than it should be. When I see no movement for three days, I initiate an online inquiry to get it moving again.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
You'd need a whole lot more than a $2K package in order to get their "extra" security. It's what the extra fee for shipments above and beyond their indemnification limit is for. You'd best be declaring true value in that circumstance or you will be SOL if you have a claim and they find out that you were untruthful.
I believe the "extra security" reference was for security above and beyond what usps does with non-registered packages.
Knowing they pay more for insurance as the declared value goes up, I know sellers who enter a declared value of only what they have tied up in the coin. Like the shipper who claims $0 value they are using a declared value of what they want for insurance coverage. I suspect there is no problem with a claim as long as the claim is for not more than the declared value. In the case of $0 value there are no grounds for a usps insurance claim. If I ran usps I would more than welcome $0 declared values.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
@CoinHoarder said:
Will USPS let you insure coins for their true value, if you do not have a receipt?
Think of "true value" as the amount you would file a claim for with usps in event of a lost shipment, limited only by the amount you can prove to be the value. A person with private insurance would not be filing a usps insurance claim.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Being a "very large seller" on E-Bay (having shipped less than 20 coins last year) there was no reason to obtain private insurance.
The only question I ask myself when deciding on a carrier and the shipping method to use is how important is recovering the funds if the shipment is lost? If you wish to self insure there are cheaper ways to go. I only use registered on packages above a $1500 in value. None have been lost to date so that's the good news. The bad news... In retrospect I've shipped the most expensive method needlessly. To me, the fewer problems the better so I'm happy. Without private ins the public carriers are not an option for me.
@jkrk said:
Being a "very large seller" on E-Bay (having shipped less than 20 coins last year) there was no reason to obtain private insurance.
The only question I ask myself when deciding on a carrier and the shipping method to use is how important is recovering the funds if the shipment is lost? If you wish to self insure there are cheaper ways to go. I only use registered on packages above a $1500 in value. None have been lost to date so that's the good news. The bad news... In retrospect I've shipped the most expensive method needlessly. To me, the fewer problems the better so I'm happy. Without private ins the public carriers are not an option for me.
recovering funds on a lost shipment is always important. Using registered on a $1500 shipment is the cheapest way to go with usps if you want insurance coverage. Do not assume that because you had no insurance claims with registered that you wasted your money. It's safe to assume you got exactly what you paid for - safe delivery.
All insurance is a waste of money until you need to use it.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
You'd need a whole lot more than a $2K package in order to get their "extra" security. It's what the extra fee for shipments above and beyond their indemnification limit is for. You'd best be declaring true value in that circumstance or you will be SOL if you have a claim and they find out that you were untruthful.
I believe the "extra security" reference was for security above and beyond what usps does with non-registered packages.
Knowing they pay more for insurance as the declared value goes up, I know sellers who enter a declared value of only what they have tied up in the coin. Like the shipper who claims $0 value they are using a declared value of what they want for insurance coverage. I suspect there is no problem with a claim as long as the claim is for not more than the declared value. In the case of $0 value there are no grounds for a usps insurance claim. If I ran usps I would more than welcome $0 declared values.
IIRC the current indemnity limit for registered mail is $50K. If you send something registered mail worth $100K you pay a fee per $1000 on the non-indemnified $50K. That fee is used to provide extra security for the shipment which may include following the delivery vehicle in an unmarked vehicle.
@BAJJERFAN said:
You'd need a whole lot more than a $2K package in order to get their "extra" security.
The extra security includes being kept locked up and requiring signatures between transfers, but I'm sure you knew that.
Your interpretation of what "extra" security is is incorrect. That is standard security, not extra security. Ask about it at your local PO.
Registered mail provides extra security when compared to regular us mail. I believe this was Mason's reference.
And you are correct that it is standard security when compared to further security available for greater than $50K registered shipments.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
@BAJJERFAN said:
You'd need a whole lot more than a $2K package in order to get their "extra" security.
The extra security includes being kept locked up and requiring signatures between transfers, but I'm sure you knew that.
Your interpretation of what "extra" security is is incorrect. That is standard security, not extra security. Ask about it at your local PO.
Registered mail provides extra security when compared to regular us mail. I believe this was Mason's reference.
And you are correct that it is standard security when compared to further security available for greater than $50K registered shipments.
More secure would have been a better choice of words tho.
Comments
I do not use private insurance myself but at one time worked for someone who did. The insurance company policy was to ship based on USPS regulations for whatever service level we chose to use. There was no recommendation to declare other than full value for registered shipments.
If one's insurance company instructed one to ship in a specific way, one would normally conclude that they knew what they were talking about. After all, it's their business, right? How would knowing that your insurance company made recommendations contrary to USPS policy (either knowing or unknowing) affect your opinion of your insurance company?
If, as I think I remember, that’s what the insurance company recommended, in the absence of additional information, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Because if there were a loss, my claim would be with the insurance company - the party taking the risk - not the post office.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If/when I have done it, I wasn't refused service by the USPS employees. They took the package and mailed it.
FYI - A rival TPG offers shipping discount via a third party. https://shipandinsure.com/ (on the webpage, in the far right column, this TPG is listed). Also ANA members may use this service.
General shipping instructions are listed to aid in the security of the shipment in order to process any loss. https://shipandinsure.com/shipping_instructions.aspx
Disclosure: I have not use this service nor inquired about the cost.
The 2020 ANA membership brochure lists this company (6 months service is $45)
They also tell you how to and by whom to ship it if you want their coverage IIRC.
True enough, the insurance company is taking the risk of loss. However, the post office is paying the cost (including extra security) to deliver your registered package and, among their policies for registered mail is this:
Private insurance carried on Registered Mail does not modify the requirements for declaring the full value.
I'm not seeing a lot of wiggle room there. But then, maybe that's just me.
I’m not seeing any and in addition to other services, I did use registered mail, on occasion.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Old school high value entombment: When I ship I use Reinforced Gummed Tape Brown Kraft Paper Roll Water Activated Packing Sealing tape to entomb the entire box. I then have the shipping service (i.e. USPS) randomly date stamp the overlaps of sealing tape around the entombed box (each side, each 90 degree angle (by rolling the stamp on the edges of the 90 degree angle). If the entombed box is breached, it can be easily seen during shipment/transfers. I normally ship USPS registered. This always give me a piece of mind that I sealed it in my box and the USPS verified that my box was sealed when they accepted it for shipment. If the entombed box is breached, the USPS has to explain to me what happened and pay me the insured value.
And with a declared value of $0 you are still paying the registered fee (with no additional charge for insurance) which is for the post office to deliver your registered package.
Lots of wiggle room: the sender determines what the full value is using whatever method he chooses. I choose a method that allows me to declare $0. Usps is only concerned that some value (even if $0) is declared on the form. This explains why they never question a $0 entry.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
You'd need a whole lot more than a $2K package in order to get their "extra" security. It's what the extra fee for shipments above and beyond their indemnification limit is for. You'd best be declaring true value in that circumstance or you will be SOL if you have a claim and they find out that you were untruthful.
By "entombing" the box with $13.20 tape you are wasting tape (same tape is cheaper at Staples). Tape is only required to cover the seams of the box/cardboard envelope. Any more application is a waste of tape and if you are using a flat rate priority box, the accepting clerk will need to verify the box in order to give your the appropriate flat rate.
No need to request usps to date stamp the edges of the tape, they are required to do it. Each postal employee taking possession of the shipment checks the date stamps for tampering before accepting possession of the shipment. This chain of custody is what makes registered mail secure and slow. It also tells usps which employee was the last to handle a missing registered package.
FWIW, most missing registered packages are found in post office safes where they were put for temporary safekeeping and then forgotten. This is also the reason why tracking will often show registered in one transit location longer than it should be. When I see no movement for three days, I initiate an online inquiry to get it moving again.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
The extra security includes being kept locked up and requiring signatures between transfers, but I'm sure you knew that.
I believe the "extra security" reference was for security above and beyond what usps does with non-registered packages.
Knowing they pay more for insurance as the declared value goes up, I know sellers who enter a declared value of only what they have tied up in the coin. Like the shipper who claims $0 value they are using a declared value of what they want for insurance coverage. I suspect there is no problem with a claim as long as the claim is for not more than the declared value. In the case of $0 value there are no grounds for a usps insurance claim. If I ran usps I would more than welcome $0 declared values.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Think of "true value" as the amount you would file a claim for with usps in event of a lost shipment, limited only by the amount you can prove to be the value. A person with private insurance would not be filing a usps insurance claim.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
Being a "very large seller" on E-Bay (having shipped less than 20 coins last year) there was no reason to obtain private insurance.
The only question I ask myself when deciding on a carrier and the shipping method to use is how important is recovering the funds if the shipment is lost? If you wish to self insure there are cheaper ways to go. I only use registered on packages above a $1500 in value. None have been lost to date so that's the good news. The bad news... In retrospect I've shipped the most expensive method needlessly. To me, the fewer problems the better so I'm happy. Without private ins the public carriers are not an option for me.
recovering funds on a lost shipment is always important. Using registered on a $1500 shipment is the cheapest way to go with usps if you want insurance coverage. Do not assume that because you had no insurance claims with registered that you wasted your money. It's safe to assume you got exactly what you paid for - safe delivery.
All insurance is a waste of money until you need to use it.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
IIRC the current indemnity limit for registered mail is $50K. If you send something registered mail worth $100K you pay a fee per $1000 on the non-indemnified $50K. That fee is used to provide extra security for the shipment which may include following the delivery vehicle in an unmarked vehicle.
Your understanding of what "extra" security is is incorrect. That is standard security, not extra security. Ask about it at your local PO.
Registered mail provides extra security when compared to regular us mail. I believe this was Mason's reference.
And you are correct that it is standard security when compared to further security available for greater than $50K registered shipments.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
More secure would have been a better choice of words tho.
So after all of the suggestions, wutchya gonna do?