The buyers fee at great collections, major auction houses, etc is like a tax to me. That's why I won't use them. At least as a buyer ebay doesn't charge me a fee for the privilege of winning.
One thing I notice is that my credit cards calculate reward points based on the total purchase price (including sales tax), whereas eBay only awards eBay Bucks based on the base cost of the item (less shipping charges and sales tax). Clearly, eBay is trying to squeeze every last drop of juice from the lemon, optics be damned.
@thebeav said:
I had a shop for 40 years. While my aim in starting a business was far from a desire to be a tax collector, I never found that aspect of business to be a 'huge headache'. I've also collected sales tax for my state on internet sales to residents. For anyone keeping accurate books, there was no headache at all. It never took me more than a few minutes per quarter to remit the money.
But you'd have to do 35 or 40 different states, all with different rates and different paperwork.
With ebay's computing power I'm sure there is no "paperwork" involved and that they can do 35 to 40 different states on behalf of millions of ebayers quicker than you and I can do one state.
Ebayers are not really paying ebay to process state taxes, we are paying them for the cost to set up the initial programming. After that it's 100% profit.
you are going to pay for it no matter if it is a line item or not. You pay their light bill 100%, the question is if you are getting enough back from them to keep the relationship going. Ebay isn't going anywhere they have the stuff and the buyers
@thebeav said:
I had a shop for 40 years. While my aim in starting a business was far from a desire to be a tax collector, I never found that aspect of business to be a 'huge headache'. I've also collected sales tax for my state on internet sales to residents. For anyone keeping accurate books, there was no headache at all. It never took me more than a few minutes per quarter to remit the money.
But you'd have to do 35 or 40 different states, all with different rates and different paperwork.
With ebay's computing power I'm sure there is no "paperwork" involved and that they can do 35 to 40 different states on behalf of millions of ebayers quicker than you and I can do one state.
Ebayers are not really paying ebay to process state taxes, we are paying them for the cost to set up the initial programming. After that it's 100% profit.
That's absurd. Running the computing infrastructure and attendant maintenance personnel is hardly free. Not to mention that tax laws are not static. You're basically paying eBay for the right to use their web site to sell goods. If the cost/benefit ratio is more favorable on that platform than elsewhere, it really doesn't matter all that much how the fee total is broken down.
@3stars said:
The buyers fee at great collections, major auction houses, etc is like a tax to me. That's why I won't use them. At least as a buyer ebay doesn't charge me a fee for the privilege of winning.
And if you are purchasing with "buy it now" rest assured the seller is letting you pay his fees.
@derryb said:
(sort of a loaded question. Kinda like taking a poll on whether one should cut off an arm or keep both arms)
Note that PP has been charging fees on taxes ebay collects since ebay started collecting taxes.
Whoever is the recipient of electronic funds should pay the fees to collect and forward them. In the case of taxes, it's the individual states. This should have been worked out and stipulated with the Wayfair decision. Yes the states should take a 3% haircut on internet taxes collected and remitted by another party.
The state is in their right to just say no electronic payments. If you pay your taxes (your taxes, not sales tax) and want to use a credit card, the government will let you, but they'll charge a fee. Tax laws are set such that the amount received, not the amount set, is the target number. The issue with your statement is that while the government is the recipient of the electronic funds, they're only specifically electronic because you're using eBay, and they mandate electronic payment. That's their rule, not the government. You could sell on your website and only accept/send cash and checks by mail, and there would be no fee on any aspect of the sales tax when you collect or remit it.
Payment processing fees are charged for processing payments, however much or little they may be. The processor doesn’t care how much is for the item or sales tax or buying that soft toilet paper for the executive bathroom. It’s ludicrous to think that a processor would change their fee structure based on the reported distribution of funds. They process $X and charge a fee on $X. That eBay sends the sales tax allocation directly to the recipient state instead of to the seller who will then still owe the full sales tax amount is neither here nor there. The seller will never be allowed to keep those funds, the processor processed them. Carry on.
I don't believe the seller is asking to keep the state's funds. He is simply asking not be be charged a fee for processing someone else's money.
The seller isn't asking the payment processor to process the state's money, the states are demanding it. The payment processor is actually working for two parties: the seller and the individual state. Each party should pay their applicable portion of the transaction fee.
As I said above, it's the sellers choice to accept an electronic payment. The government is mandating that you collect the tax, not the way you collect it. If you chose to only collect sales tax in low-purity silver shot, but no one would buy your silver until it was refined into a bar, the government wouldn't cover the cost of refining it. That decision was yours.
Is it "fair" that I have various costs associated with income tax filing? Is it "fair" that I have costs associated with collecting sales tax at point-of-sale?
At least these costs are deductible business expenses. Is it fair that the fee on taxes are not?
Ummm... get a new accountant if you're not writing that off. (Money in)-(Money out) is your income. Fees are money out. If you pay the fee, you write it off.
@thebeav said:
I had a shop for 40 years. While my aim in starting a business was far from a desire to be a tax collector, I never found that aspect of business to be a 'huge headache'. I've also collected sales tax for my state on internet sales to residents. For anyone keeping accurate books, there was no headache at all. It never took me more than a few minutes per quarter to remit the money.
But you'd have to do 35 or 40 different states, all with different rates and different paperwork.
Don't forget that many states have county regulations. In WA coins are exempt from sales tax which is helpful, but if not, before eBay stated collecting, I'd have had to worry about not only all WA-based transactions in general, but break them down by the recipient's county. That would be bad enough for just my one state. Across the nation? No thanks.
@CoinJunkie said:
One thing I notice is that my credit cards calculate reward points based on the total purchase price (including sales tax), whereas eBay only awards eBay Bucks based on the base cost of the item (less shipping charges and sales tax). Clearly, eBay is trying to squeeze every last drop of juice from the lemon, optics be damned.
eBay always knows the breakdown of each sale. Credit card companies may not depending on how the sales are rung up and coded. Sometimes they might see the breakdown by category, other times they might just see that you spent $X at a given business, and they know nothing more. Besides, for them rewards are a function of the processing fee they collect, which is on the whole transaction, so it's easier to just have one simple rule. Yes eBay collects the fee on the whole transaction, but since they always know the exact breakdown, it's much easier to give rewards on items only.
@3stars said:
Aren't transaction fees considered a business expense and deductible?
They don't count as income. That doesn't mean you don't have to pay them or they get refunded to you somehow, though.
If you sell a $100 coin take PP and get $97 back do you claim $100 in sales and $3 in expenses or $97 in sales and 0$ in expenses? Does it matter one way or tuther?
If you shop at Walmart and buy something taxable and pay with a CC does the CC Company charge the fee on the sales taxes? Or does WalMart eat the fee? Pretty sure the state wants their FULL CUT.
@CoinJunkie said:
One thing I notice is that my credit cards calculate reward points based on the total purchase price (including sales tax), whereas eBay only awards eBay Bucks based on the base cost of the item (less shipping charges and sales tax). Clearly, eBay is trying to squeeze every last drop of juice from the lemon, optics be damned.
eBay always knows the breakdown of each sale. Credit card companies may not depending on how the sales are rung up and coded. Sometimes they might see the breakdown by category, other times they might just see that you spent $X at a given business, and they know nothing more. Besides, for them rewards are a function of the processing fee they collect, which is on the whole transaction, so it's easier to just have one simple rule. Yes eBay collects the fee on the whole transaction, but since they always know the exact breakdown, it's much easier to give rewards on items only.
Sure, you make some good points. But IF eBay cared about optics, then they probably should award eBay Bucks based on the bottom line price, especially if they're going to charge fees on same. I long ago came to the conclusion that eBay isn't really concerned with optics or justifying fee hikes to sellers, so I just roll with the punches. In spite of the fee hikes, it's still the best platform for selling a wide swath of items, although I'm increasingly using GC for coin sales.
@BAJJERFAN said:
If you sell a $100 coin take PP and get $97 back to you claim $100 in sales and $3 in expenses or $97 in sales and 0$ in expenses? Does it matter one way or tuther?
PayPal is going to tell the IRS you received $100 from eBay. If you tell them you received $97, you might have some explaining to do. IMO, anyway.
I am not an accountant, so take this for what it's worth.
@BAJJERFAN said:
If you sell a $100 coin take PP and get $97 back to you claim $100 in sales and $3 in expenses or $97 in sales and 0$ in expenses? Does it matter one way or tuther?
PayPal is going to tell the IRS you received $100 from eBay. If you tell them you received $97, you might have some explaining to do. IMO, anyway.
I am not an accountant, so take this for what it's worth.
Yeah so deduct all expenses possible I guess, but frankly I prefer profit over expenses. Every time you turn around someone is padding your expenses.
Please be careful in what you wish for and how you conduct your business. As some folks here remind us... There is no Numismatic Santa Claus and that extends to those areas that one did not think was possible.
Carry on...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@thebeav said:
I had a shop for 40 years. While my aim in starting a business was far from a desire to be a tax collector, I never found that aspect of business to be a 'huge headache'. I've also collected sales tax for my state on internet sales to residents. For anyone keeping accurate books, there was no headache at all. It never took me more than a few minutes per quarter to remit the money.
But you'd have to do 35 or 40 different states, all with different rates and different paperwork.
With ebay's computing power I'm sure there is no "paperwork" involved and that they can do 35 to 40 different states on behalf of millions of ebayers quicker than you and I can do one state.
Ebayers are not really paying ebay to process state taxes, we are paying them for the cost to set up the initial programming. After that it's 100% profit.
You completely miss the point. I WANT THEM to do it. I'm sure it is much easier for them. I was responding to @thebeav who said it was no big deal for him to do it manually.
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
@BAJJERFAN said:
Yeah so deduct all expenses possible I guess, but frankly I prefer profit over expenses. Every time you turn around someone is padding your expenses.
One person's profit is the next person's expense.
Anyway, if you think someone is padding your expenses too much, you can stop doing business with them, you know.
@BAJJERFAN said:
Yeah so deduct all expenses possible I guess, but frankly I prefer profit over expenses. Every time you turn around someone is padding your expenses.
One person's profit is the next person's expense.
Anyway, if you think someone is padding your expenses too much, you can stop doing business with them, you know.
So true. I rarely sell on eBay so no biggie to me.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
It's the PRINCIPLE, damn it. No matter what it costs me.
@vplite99 said:
I do resent having to pay a fee on sales tax collected, but I would not like to fill out forms & pay tax.
So- instead of looking at it as a fee on sales tax collected, consider it a fee to fill out forms & pay that tax. Problem solved.
Yea! If you get to the point that the percentage costs more than the 3 days of filing paper work for each state and paying each states fee to be licensed there, so be it. With my business there is a Texas state sales tax of 6.25% and then within the Houston area there are at least three more city, county, and different counties who all take a 1 to 2% rate on top. So depending on where I sell my product my rate fluctuates.
It's way too complicated and so I mostly just say it sold from my business address and file as one rate at 8.25%.
If I was lucky enough to just sit in my office all day then I might have time to fret a few dollars but I doubt it. And actually I just hired another technician/runner and so the time I do spend in my office now must be spent conjuring up sales otherwise I'll be put back to that position. And that would be bad really bad!
Edit: Metro & City tax add 1% each - Metro is free rides for all the walkies & now green talkies too. City tax is for the Mayor and her estate, Cadillac, yacht, etc. etc. etc.
@YQQ said:
is double taxation legal in the USA?
it was all about taxes charged, not fees.
Yes. It's actually very common. Everyone who has wages/salary/self-employment income pays social security taxes, but when their income taxes are assessed, they are assessed on the pretax amount. Some other taxes are deductible under certain circumstances. Not sure the rules where you are.
I would have paid more than that just for the coins I sold to folks downunder in Australia. I'm sure if I go and figure all my transactions it will be well over a thousand dollars, if not several. Keep in mind for us folks that do sell overseas ebay is about to start collecting Vat taxes for many countries. Unlike @jmlanzaf most of what I sell on ebay is probably many multiple times the average price of what he sells.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
@amwldcoin said:
I would have paid more than that just for the coins I sold to folks downunder in Australia. I'm sure if I go and figure all my transactions it will be well over a thousand dollars, if not several. Keep in mind for us folks that do sell overseas ebay is about to start collecting Vat taxes for many countries. Unlike @jmlanzaf most of what I sell on ebay is probably many multiple times the average price of what he sells.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
My eBay sales run $100k per year in coins. 6% of 6% of 100k is $360. So, if you do $300k you'll get to the $1000 mark.
But, it is still 6% of 6%. I wish I was paying eBay an extra $10,000 per year. That would mean I had $3 million in sales.
I also sell non-coins that come with a 10% FVF, so I'm paying even more there. Y'know what? I still don't care.
The increase in shipping costs is far more of an issue for me than this piddling .36% and I'm not even complaining about that. You know why? Because I'm still in business and it would be much harder for me to run the business without eBay and without USPS. I'd have to do shows every weekend. And, you know what? If the show was out of state, I'd still have the sales tax problem to deal with.
If you whiners put as much time into running your business rather than complaining about 0.36%, you'd be able to afford the 0.36% and more.
@derryb said:
With ebay's computing power I'm sure there is no "paperwork" involved and that they can do 35 to 40 different states on behalf of millions of ebayers quicker than you and I can do one state.
Ebayers are not really paying ebay to process state taxes, we are paying them for the cost to set up the initial programming. After that it's 100% profit.
You would surprisingly be wrong.
There are over 10,000 taxing jurisdictions just in the USA. Houses on different sides of the street may pay the same rate, but the breakup (which the remitter is responsible for) changes.
Tax rates come and go, with hundreds or more of changes every quarter. What is taxable is constantly changing.
Just because I have a tax exemption certificate doesn't mean everything I purchase is tax-exempt.
The complexity of this process is why several service bureaus exist and count the largest e-commerce companies among their clients...
Check out the integrations and reference customers...
@derryb said:
With ebay's computing power I'm sure there is no "paperwork" involved and that they can do 35 to 40 different states on behalf of millions of ebayers quicker than you and I can do one state.
Ebayers are not really paying ebay to process state taxes, we are paying them for the cost to set up the initial programming. After that it's 100% profit.
You would surprisingly be wrong.
There are over 10,000 taxing jurisdictions just in the USA. Houses on different sides of the street may pay the same rate, but the breakup (which the remitter is responsible for) changes.
Tax rates come and go, with hundreds or more of changes every quarter. What is taxable is constantly changing.
Just because I have a tax exemption certificate doesn't mean everything I purchase is tax-exempt.
The complexity of this process is why several service bureaus exist and count the largest e-commerce companies among their clients...
Check out the integrations and reference customers...
It's true. New York state alone is a zoo with every county a separate reporting entity. And then you also have periodic sales tax holidays on things like clothing that need to be tracked. Derry's right, computers can handle it, if coded properly, but it is a mess to keep track of.
Wait til you start paying that fee on VAT taxes which are outrageous! I sell quite a bit of stuff overseas....quite a few seashells! It will have a big impact on my bottom line unless I revamp all my listings to jack the fees charged to overseas buyers. Right now I just eat the extra paypal costs(also charged on the high shipping charges)....but now I will have to change that and of course loose quite a few sales.
I guess you just noticed ebay is raising the international shipping rates also. Penny here and a Penny there is really starting to add up. It will continue until the camel's back breaks!
@amwldcoin said:
I would have paid more than that just for the coins I sold to folks downunder in Australia. I'm sure if I go and figure all my transactions it will be well over a thousand dollars, if not several. Keep in mind for us folks that do sell overseas ebay is about to start collecting Vat taxes for many countries. Unlike @jmlanzaf most of what I sell on ebay is probably many multiple times the average price of what he sells.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
My eBay sales run $100k per year in coins. 6% of 6% of 100k is $360. So, if you do $300k you'll get to the $1000 mark.
But, it is still 6% of 6%. I wish I was paying eBay an extra $10,000 per year. That would mean I had $3 million in sales.
I also sell non-coins that come with a 10% FVF, so I'm paying even more there. Y'know what? I still don't care.
The increase in shipping costs is far more of an issue for me than this piddling .36% and I'm not even complaining about that. You know why? Because I'm still in business and it would be much harder for me to run the business without eBay and without USPS. I'd have to do shows every weekend. And, you know what? If the show was out of state, I'd still have the sales tax problem to deal with.
If you whiners put as much time into running your business rather than complaining about 0.36%, you'd be able to afford the 0.36% and more.
Let's face it, you pay taxes to make money, to spend the same money, and now thanks to all of you know it all's you'll get to give half of what's left to the government when you die. Maybe some of you guys would do well to have your own website rather than Ebay.
@amwldcoin said:
Wait til you start paying that fee on VAT taxes which are outrageous! I sell quite a bit of stuff overseas....quite a few seashells! It will have a big impact on my bottom line unless I revamp all my listings to jack the fees charged to overseas buyers. Right now I just eat the extra paypal costs(also charged on the high shipping charges)....but now I will have to change that and of course loose quite a few sales.
I guess you just noticed ebay is raising the international shipping rates also. Penny here and a Penny there is really starting to add up. It will continue until the camel's back breaks!
@amwldcoin said:
I would have paid more than that just for the coins I sold to folks downunder in Australia. I'm sure if I go and figure all my transactions it will be well over a thousand dollars, if not several. Keep in mind for us folks that do sell overseas ebay is about to start collecting Vat taxes for many countries. Unlike @jmlanzaf most of what I sell on ebay is probably many multiple times the average price of what he sells.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
My eBay sales run $100k per year in coins. 6% of 6% of 100k is $360. So, if you do $300k you'll get to the $1000 mark.
But, it is still 6% of 6%. I wish I was paying eBay an extra $10,000 per year. That would mean I had $3 million in sales.
I also sell non-coins that come with a 10% FVF, so I'm paying even more there. Y'know what? I still don't care.
The increase in shipping costs is far more of an issue for me than this piddling .36% and I'm not even complaining about that. You know why? Because I'm still in business and it would be much harder for me to run the business without eBay and without USPS. I'd have to do shows every weekend. And, you know what? If the show was out of state, I'd still have the sales tax problem to deal with.
If you whiners put as much time into running your business rather than complaining about 0.36%, you'd be able to afford the 0.36% and more.
@amwldcoin said:
Wait til you start paying that fee on VAT taxes which are outrageous! I sell quite a bit of stuff overseas....quite a few seashells! It will have a big impact on my bottom line unless I revamp all my listings to jack the fees charged to overseas buyers. Right now I just eat the extra paypal costs(also charged on the high shipping charges)....but now I will have to change that and of course loose quite a few sales.
I guess you just noticed ebay is raising the international shipping rates also. Penny here and a Penny there is really starting to add up. It will continue until the camel's back breaks!
@amwldcoin said:
I would have paid more than that just for the coins I sold to folks downunder in Australia. I'm sure if I go and figure all my transactions it will be well over a thousand dollars, if not several. Keep in mind for us folks that do sell overseas ebay is about to start collecting Vat taxes for many countries. Unlike @jmlanzaf most of what I sell on ebay is probably many multiple times the average price of what he sells.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
My eBay sales run $100k per year in coins. 6% of 6% of 100k is $360. So, if you do $300k you'll get to the $1000 mark.
But, it is still 6% of 6%. I wish I was paying eBay an extra $10,000 per year. That would mean I had $3 million in sales.
I also sell non-coins that come with a 10% FVF, so I'm paying even more there. Y'know what? I still don't care.
The increase in shipping costs is far more of an issue for me than this piddling .36% and I'm not even complaining about that. You know why? Because I'm still in business and it would be much harder for me to run the business without eBay and without USPS. I'd have to do shows every weekend. And, you know what? If the show was out of state, I'd still have the sales tax problem to deal with.
If you whiners put as much time into running your business rather than complaining about 0.36%, you'd be able to afford the 0.36% and more.
I didn’t look to see how much they increase rates (I don’t use the service) but USPS rates go up tomorrow, so that may be a factor. The international jump is much larger than the domestic one.
@CoinJunkie said:
One thing I notice is that my credit cards calculate reward points based on the total purchase price (including sales tax), whereas eBay only awards eBay Bucks based on the base cost of the item (less shipping charges and sales tax). Clearly, eBay is trying to squeeze every last drop of juice from the lemon, optics be damned.
eBay always knows the breakdown of each sale. Credit card companies may not depending on how the sales are rung up and coded. Sometimes they might see the breakdown by category, other times they might just see that you spent $X at a given business, and they know nothing more. Besides, for them rewards are a function of the processing fee they collect, which is on the whole transaction, so it's easier to just have one simple rule. Yes eBay collects the fee on the whole transaction, but since they always know the exact breakdown, it's much easier to give rewards on items only.
Sure, you make some good points. But IF eBay cared about optics, then they probably should award eBay Bucks based on the bottom line price, especially if they're going to charge fees on same. I long ago came to the conclusion that eBay isn't really concerned with optics or justifying fee hikes to sellers, so I just roll with the punches. In spite of the fee hikes, it's still the best platform for selling a wide swath of items, although I'm increasingly using GC for coin sales.
I’ve honestly never thought about it, and I imagine most buyers who never think about fees haven’t, either (especially with tax being a new thing, anyway). eBay bucks is prominent and obviously awarded for the purchase price. As for credit card points, I don’t even pay attention. I use the right card when I need to, and eventually realize I have a ton of rewards available. Of all the things I’m worried about, whether I get another percent or two on an additional few percent is nowhere near the top of my list.
@amwldcoin said:
Wait til you start paying that fee on VAT taxes which are outrageous! I sell quite a bit of stuff overseas....quite a few seashells! It will have a big impact on my bottom line unless I revamp all my listings to jack the fees charged to overseas buyers. Right now I just eat the extra paypal costs(also charged on the high shipping charges)....but now I will have to change that and of course loose quite a few sales.
I guess you just noticed ebay is raising the international shipping rates also. Penny here and a Penny there is really starting to add up. It will continue until the camel's back breaks!
@amwldcoin said:
I would have paid more than that just for the coins I sold to folks downunder in Australia. I'm sure if I go and figure all my transactions it will be well over a thousand dollars, if not several. Keep in mind for us folks that do sell overseas ebay is about to start collecting Vat taxes for many countries. Unlike @jmlanzaf most of what I sell on ebay is probably many multiple times the average price of what he sells.
@jmlanzaf said:
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
My eBay sales run $100k per year in coins. 6% of 6% of 100k is $360. So, if you do $300k you'll get to the $1000 mark.
But, it is still 6% of 6%. I wish I was paying eBay an extra $10,000 per year. That would mean I had $3 million in sales.
I also sell non-coins that come with a 10% FVF, so I'm paying even more there. Y'know what? I still don't care.
The increase in shipping costs is far more of an issue for me than this piddling .36% and I'm not even complaining about that. You know why? Because I'm still in business and it would be much harder for me to run the business without eBay and without USPS. I'd have to do shows every weekend. And, you know what? If the show was out of state, I'd still have the sales tax problem to deal with.
If you whiners put as much time into running your business rather than complaining about 0.36%, you'd be able to afford the 0.36% and more.
I didn’t look to see how much they increase rates (I don’t use the service) but USPS rates go up tomorrow, so that may be a factor. The international jump is much larger than the domestic one.
@CoinJunkie said:
One thing I notice is that my credit cards calculate reward points based on the total purchase price (including sales tax), whereas eBay only awards eBay Bucks based on the base cost of the item (less shipping charges and sales tax). Clearly, eBay is trying to squeeze every last drop of juice from the lemon, optics be damned.
eBay always knows the breakdown of each sale. Credit card companies may not depending on how the sales are rung up and coded. Sometimes they might see the breakdown by category, other times they might just see that you spent $X at a given business, and they know nothing more. Besides, for them rewards are a function of the processing fee they collect, which is on the whole transaction, so it's easier to just have one simple rule. Yes eBay collects the fee on the whole transaction, but since they always know the exact breakdown, it's much easier to give rewards on items only.
Sure, you make some good points. But IF eBay cared about optics, then they probably should award eBay Bucks based on the bottom line price, especially if they're going to charge fees on same. I long ago came to the conclusion that eBay isn't really concerned with optics or justifying fee hikes to sellers, so I just roll with the punches. In spite of the fee hikes, it's still the best platform for selling a wide swath of items, although I'm increasingly using GC for coin sales.
I’ve honestly never thought about it, and I imagine most buyers who never think about fees haven’t, either (especially with tax being a new thing, anyway). eBay bucks is prominent and obviously awarded for the purchase price. As for credit card points, I don’t even pay attention. I use the right card when I need to, and eventually realize I have a ton of rewards available. Of all the things I’m worried about, whether I get another percent or two on an additional few percent is nowhere near the top of my list.
Yeah, I'm not really worried about it. Just happened to notice it and found it symptomatic of eBay's propensity to nickel and dime.
Comments
The buyers fee at great collections, major auction houses, etc is like a tax to me. That's why I won't use them. At least as a buyer ebay doesn't charge me a fee for the privilege of winning.
One thing I notice is that my credit cards calculate reward points based on the total purchase price (including sales tax), whereas eBay only awards eBay Bucks based on the base cost of the item (less shipping charges and sales tax). Clearly, eBay is trying to squeeze every last drop of juice from the lemon, optics be damned.
With ebay's computing power I'm sure there is no "paperwork" involved and that they can do 35 to 40 different states on behalf of millions of ebayers quicker than you and I can do one state.
Ebayers are not really paying ebay to process state taxes, we are paying them for the cost to set up the initial programming. After that it's 100% profit.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
you are going to pay for it no matter if it is a line item or not. You pay their light bill 100%, the question is if you are getting enough back from them to keep the relationship going. Ebay isn't going anywhere they have the stuff and the buyers
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
That's absurd. Running the computing infrastructure and attendant maintenance personnel is hardly free. Not to mention that tax laws are not static. You're basically paying eBay for the right to use their web site to sell goods. If the cost/benefit ratio is more favorable on that platform than elsewhere, it really doesn't matter all that much how the fee total is broken down.
And if you are purchasing with "buy it now" rest assured the seller is letting you pay his fees.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
The state is in their right to just say no electronic payments. If you pay your taxes (your taxes, not sales tax) and want to use a credit card, the government will let you, but they'll charge a fee. Tax laws are set such that the amount received, not the amount set, is the target number. The issue with your statement is that while the government is the recipient of the electronic funds, they're only specifically electronic because you're using eBay, and they mandate electronic payment. That's their rule, not the government. You could sell on your website and only accept/send cash and checks by mail, and there would be no fee on any aspect of the sales tax when you collect or remit it.
As I said above, it's the sellers choice to accept an electronic payment. The government is mandating that you collect the tax, not the way you collect it. If you chose to only collect sales tax in low-purity silver shot, but no one would buy your silver until it was refined into a bar, the government wouldn't cover the cost of refining it. That decision was yours.
Ummm... get a new accountant if you're not writing that off. (Money in)-(Money out) is your income. Fees are money out. If you pay the fee, you write it off.
Don't forget that many states have county regulations. In WA coins are exempt from sales tax which is helpful, but if not, before eBay stated collecting, I'd have had to worry about not only all WA-based transactions in general, but break them down by the recipient's county. That would be bad enough for just my one state. Across the nation? No thanks.
eBay always knows the breakdown of each sale. Credit card companies may not depending on how the sales are rung up and coded. Sometimes they might see the breakdown by category, other times they might just see that you spent $X at a given business, and they know nothing more. Besides, for them rewards are a function of the processing fee they collect, which is on the whole transaction, so it's easier to just have one simple rule. Yes eBay collects the fee on the whole transaction, but since they always know the exact breakdown, it's much easier to give rewards on items only.
If you sell a $100 coin take PP and get $97 back do you claim $100 in sales and $3 in expenses or $97 in sales and 0$ in expenses? Does it matter one way or tuther?
If you shop at Walmart and buy something taxable and pay with a CC does the CC Company charge the fee on the sales taxes? Or does WalMart eat the fee? Pretty sure the state wants their FULL CUT.
Sure, you make some good points. But IF eBay cared about optics, then they probably should award eBay Bucks based on the bottom line price, especially if they're going to charge fees on same. I long ago came to the conclusion that eBay isn't really concerned with optics or justifying fee hikes to sellers, so I just roll with the punches. In spite of the fee hikes, it's still the best platform for selling a wide swath of items, although I'm increasingly using GC for coin sales.
The seller should have the choice of paying their tax bill however they choice .
That being said yes they have to pay like all those in business.
PayPal is going to tell the IRS you received $100 from eBay. If you tell them you received $97, you might have some explaining to do. IMO, anyway.
I am not an accountant, so take this for what it's worth.
Yes, I can't imagine collecting for 35 states !
Yeah so deduct all expenses possible I guess, but frankly I prefer profit over expenses. Every time you turn around someone is padding your expenses.
Please be careful in what you wish for and how you conduct your business. As some folks here remind us... There is no Numismatic Santa Claus and that extends to those areas that one did not think was possible.
Carry on...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
You completely miss the point. I WANT THEM to do it. I'm sure it is much easier for them. I was responding to @thebeav who said it was no big deal for him to do it manually.
If I do it myself, it will NOT be quick, easy or automatic.
One person's profit is the next person's expense.
Anyway, if you think someone is padding your expenses too much, you can stop doing business with them, you know.
So true. I rarely sell on eBay so no biggie to me.
Ya'll guys still talking about this...I could have filed 3 years of taxes by now and I'd still rather have someone else do it for me
If I had been charged FVFs on sales tax this past year, it would have cost me $58. Considering that, I can't imagine any scenario where it would have been to my benefit to do the filing and remitting myself.
It's the PRINCIPLE, damn it. No matter what it costs me.
I do resent having to pay a fee on sales tax collected, but I would not like to fill out forms & pay tax.
So- instead of looking at it as a fee on sales tax collected, consider it a fee to fill out forms & pay that tax. Problem solved.
Yea! If you get to the point that the percentage costs more than the 3 days of filing paper work for each state and paying each states fee to be licensed there, so be it. With my business there is a Texas state sales tax of 6.25% and then within the Houston area there are at least three more city, county, and different counties who all take a 1 to 2% rate on top. So depending on where I sell my product my rate fluctuates.
really bad!
It's way too complicated and so I mostly just say it sold from my business address and file as one rate at 8.25%.
If I was lucky enough to just sit in my office all day then I might have time to fret a few dollars but I doubt it. And actually I just hired another technician/runner and so the time I do spend in my office now must be spent conjuring up sales otherwise I'll be put back to that position. And that would be bad
Edit: Metro & City tax add 1% each - Metro is free rides for all the walkies & now green talkies too. City tax is for the Mayor and her estate, Cadillac, yacht, etc. etc. etc.
Yes. It's actually very common. Everyone who has wages/salary/self-employment income pays social security taxes, but when their income taxes are assessed, they are assessed on the pretax amount. Some other taxes are deductible under certain circumstances. Not sure the rules where you are.
I would have paid more than that just for the coins I sold to folks downunder in Australia. I'm sure if I go and figure all my transactions it will be well over a thousand dollars, if not several. Keep in mind for us folks that do sell overseas ebay is about to start collecting Vat taxes for many countries. Unlike @jmlanzaf most of what I sell on ebay is probably many multiple times the average price of what he sells.
My eBay sales run $100k per year in coins. 6% of 6% of 100k is $360. So, if you do $300k you'll get to the $1000 mark.
But, it is still 6% of 6%. I wish I was paying eBay an extra $10,000 per year. That would mean I had $3 million in sales.
I also sell non-coins that come with a 10% FVF, so I'm paying even more there. Y'know what? I still don't care.
The increase in shipping costs is far more of an issue for me than this piddling .36% and I'm not even complaining about that. You know why? Because I'm still in business and it would be much harder for me to run the business without eBay and without USPS. I'd have to do shows every weekend. And, you know what? If the show was out of state, I'd still have the sales tax problem to deal with.
If you whiners put as much time into running your business rather than complaining about 0.36%, you'd be able to afford the 0.36% and more.
It's a pay to play system. We have every right to complain and if we don't like it, we can opt out. Simple rule. Suck it up, users.
You would surprisingly be wrong.
There are over 10,000 taxing jurisdictions just in the USA. Houses on different sides of the street may pay the same rate, but the breakup (which the remitter is responsible for) changes.
Tax rates come and go, with hundreds or more of changes every quarter. What is taxable is constantly changing.
Just because I have a tax exemption certificate doesn't mean everything I purchase is tax-exempt.
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to name two.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
It's true. New York state alone is a zoo with every county a separate reporting entity. And then you also have periodic sales tax holidays on things like clothing that need to be tracked. Derry's right, computers can handle it, if coded properly, but it is a mess to keep track of.
I surrender. Thank you Paypal and Ebay for handling my state sales taxes.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
Wait til you start paying that fee on VAT taxes which are outrageous! I sell quite a bit of stuff overseas....quite a few seashells! It will have a big impact on my bottom line unless I revamp all my listings to jack the fees charged to overseas buyers. Right now I just eat the extra paypal costs(also charged on the high shipping charges)....but now I will have to change that and of course loose quite a few sales.
I guess you just noticed ebay is raising the international shipping rates also. Penny here and a Penny there is really starting to add up. It will continue until the camel's back breaks!
Let's face it, you pay taxes to make money, to spend the same money, and now thanks to all of you know it all's you'll get to give half of what's left to the government when you die. Maybe some of you guys would do well to have your own website rather than Ebay.
Yes, VAT is a much bigger issue.
I didn’t look to see how much they increase rates (I don’t use the service) but USPS rates go up tomorrow, so that may be a factor. The international jump is much larger than the domestic one.
I’ve honestly never thought about it, and I imagine most buyers who never think about fees haven’t, either (especially with tax being a new thing, anyway). eBay bucks is prominent and obviously awarded for the purchase price. As for credit card points, I don’t even pay attention. I use the right card when I need to, and eventually realize I have a ton of rewards available. Of all the things I’m worried about, whether I get another percent or two on an additional few percent is nowhere near the top of my list.
Yeah, I'm not really worried about it. Just happened to notice it and found it symptomatic of eBay's propensity to nickel and dime.