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Review designs for the 2021 Morgan Silver dollars and the 2021 Peace Silver dollars...

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  • ɹoʇɔǝlloɔɹoʇɔǝlloɔ Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
    open motion to have a 250th commem for declaration of independence in years either 2023, 2024, 2025 or 2026 - all yea except dennis who neighed 🐎

    why would they have this in a year other than 2026 🤔🤔🤔

  • Tom147Tom147 Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Didn't get a chance to follow, so can someone answer me this ? How many different versions will there be total ? MS vs PR. , mm's, Privy marks. Also different release dates ?

  • ɹoʇɔǝlloɔɹoʇɔǝlloɔ Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tom147 said:
    Didn't get a chance to follow, so can someone answer me this ? How many different versions will there be total ? MS vs PR. , mm's, Privy marks. Also different release dates ?

    the finishes weren't discussed at all, when I was on the call; listening

    sounds like p, d, s, p cc privy, p o privy of morgans; p, d, s of peace [???]

    the meeting lacked a bunch of clarity in the finer details - guess we buckle up and cross our fingers

  • ɹoʇɔǝlloɔɹoʇɔǝlloɔ Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2021 10:53AM

    the diameters, weights and finenesses were supposed to be a 1:1 of origs, from what I heard mentioned

  • cagcrispcagcrisp Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To clarify. The coins minted at Philadelphia will either Not have a mint mark or will have a CC or O privy mark.

    From what I've heard from the Mint (not on the call today), the privy mark for CC and O will be in the same place as the Mint mark for D and S.

    So...5 coins, 2 with mint marks (D,S), 1 coins with no mint mark (P) and 2 coins with a privy mark in place of a mint mark (minted in Philadelphia with CC or O privy mark).

    There wasn't anything mentioned on the call concerning mintages or whether there would be proofs or uncirculated designs for the Morgan Silver dollars...

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since they don’t have original dies, I wonder if they’ll borrow some of the MS67 and up specimens out there or proof specimens to scan?

    Although cost prohibitive for most of us, it would be cool if they issued a single gold version of the Morgan and Peace dollar, too, but I’m sure that isn’t in the legislation.

  • 3stars3stars Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
    open motion to have a 250th commem for declaration of independence in years either 2023, 2024, 2025 or 2026 - all yea except dennis who neighed 🐎

    why would they have this in a year other than 2026 🤔🤔🤔

    The same reason the bicentennials ran in both 1975 and 1976.

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
    they don't have original pieces, only fragments of hubs etc

    Was that stated to be the case for the Morgan, or Peace, or both ?

    If stated that only "fragments" of Peace hubs or models exist, then that is not true.
    The US Mint does have original 1921 Peace Dollar galvanos in good condition.

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
    they don't have original pieces, only fragments of hubs etc

    Was that stated to be the case for the Morgan, or Peace, or both ?

    If stated that only "fragments" of Peace hubs or models exist, then that is not true.
    The US Mint does have original 1921 Peace Dollar galvanos in good condition.

    They also have hubs for the 1964 Morgan.

  • ɹoʇɔǝlloɔɹoʇɔǝlloɔ Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
    they don't have original pieces, only fragments of hubs etc

    Was that stated to be the case for the Morgan, or Peace, or both ?

    If stated that only "fragments" of Peace hubs or models exist, then that is not true.
    The US Mint does have original 1921 Peace Dollar galvanos in good condition.

    interesting - sorry I didn't catch which - had this call on speaker as I was working so was half listening, but one of the speakers claimed this as a handicap in designing at least one of them

  • RedStormRedStorm Posts: 221 ✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:

    Although cost prohibitive for most of us, it would be cool if they issued a single gold version of the Morgan and Peace dollar, too, but I’m sure that isn’t in the legislation.

    I think the Treasury Secretary has authority to coin anything in gold they want without Congressional authorization. That is how the Mayflower gold coins were made last year even though they weren’t authorized by Congress. Having said that, I think the mint should focus on just the silver coins and try to not screw it up!

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Umm why is there a review? There are a gazillion examples of the real deal - just copy it. Dan Carr could do this on a weekend. I literally hate government employees.

    Damn. I'm a retired government employee. I hope you don't hate me.

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 19, 2021 9:19PM

    @koynekwest said:

    @Clackamas1 said:
    Umm why is there a review? There are a gazillion examples of the real deal - just copy it. Dan Carr could do this on a weekend. I literally hate government employees.

    Damn. I'm a retired government employee. I hope you don't hate me.

    Sorry - I don't hate you. - If you like coins you are good in all books.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedStorm said:

    @TurtleCat said:

    Although cost prohibitive for most of us, it would be cool if they issued a single gold version of the Morgan and Peace dollar, too, but I’m sure that isn’t in the legislation.

    I think the Treasury Secretary has authority to coin anything in gold they want without Congressional authorization. That is how the Mayflower gold coins were made last year even though they weren’t authorized by Congress. Having said that, I think the mint should focus on just the silver coins and try to not screw it up!

    I think they could only do up to Eagle size, right? I wouldn’t want a shrunken version of the dollar coins.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:

    @RedStorm said:

    @TurtleCat said:

    Although cost prohibitive for most of us, it would be cool if they issued a single gold version of the Morgan and Peace dollar, too, but I’m sure that isn’t in the legislation.

    I think the Treasury Secretary has authority to coin anything in gold they want without Congressional authorization. That is how the Mayflower gold coins were made last year even though they weren’t authorized by Congress. Having said that, I think the mint should focus on just the silver coins and try to not screw it up!

    I think they could only do up to Eagle size, right? I wouldn’t want a shrunken version of the dollar coins.

    Not sure, but I wouldn't want to pay the price of gold from the mint.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭

    A 5 coin set with mixed finishes would be a neat way to go.

    Uncirculated (D)
    Proof (Phily, since all original proofs are Phily)
    DMPL (S) ?
    Burnished (O)
    Reverse Proof (CC)

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’d keep it simple, personally, and break it out into several sets:

    1. PDSOCC Morgans in BU
    2. PDSOCC Morgans in PF
    3. PDS Peace in BU
    4. PDS Peace in PF
    5. P Morgan and Peace 2 coin combo

    No exotic finishes or planchet preparations.

  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭

    I didn't want to make to many coins to collect. 10 Morgan's is a large set.

    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2021 8:47PM
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So only 2021 (P) peace dollar and PDSOCC Morgans with privy marks for O, CC. They’ll use 0.999 fine planchets used for commemorative dollars so the look will be close but not exact.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the commemorative silver dollars are .90

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The Peace design is lacking the fourth ray below "ONE".

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:

    The Peace design is lacking the fourth ray below "ONE".

    Did they use a different year reverse?

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    the commemorative silver dollars are .90

    I believe that stopped with the 2019 series when everything was allowed to go to 0.999.

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:

    @dcarr said:

    The Peace design is lacking the fourth ray below "ONE".

    Did they use a different year reverse?

    The arrangement of the rays is consistent with 1922-1935, not 1921. But the rendering looks to be higher relief than 1922-1935.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    https://www.ccac.gov/contactUS/index.html

    Contact Us
    Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee
    801 9th Street, NW
    Washington, DC 20220

    Email address: info@ccac.gov

    Recorded meeting information line: 202-354-7502

    Contact Us - they're begging to hear our opinions!

    which is to use the 1921 morgan and peace designs, and to make the peace in the original HR.

    4th ray missing? -- Contact Us

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    the commemorative silver dollars are .90

    I believe that stopped with the 2019 series when everything was allowed to go to 0.999.

    there is something fundamentally wrong with these in .999

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:

    @TurtleCat said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    the commemorative silver dollars are .90

    I believe that stopped with the 2019 series when everything was allowed to go to 0.999.

    there is something fundamentally wrong with these in .999

    I quite agree. Just as I thought the 2016 centennial coins should have been 0.900 gold plus made with 0.900 silver. But since the die preparation isn’t the same anymore it wouldn’t look quite right anyway. But I’ll still get some.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2021 9:40PM

    @dcarr said:

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
    they don't have original pieces, only fragments of hubs etc

    Was that stated to be the case for the Morgan, or Peace, or both ?

    If stated that only "fragments" of Peace hubs or models exist, then that is not true.
    The US Mint does have original 1921 Peace Dollar galvanos in good condition.

    Good to know. Is there any information or photos of these available?

  • ɹoʇɔǝlloɔɹoʇɔǝlloɔ Posts: 1,436 ✭✭✭✭✭

    an ocean of morgans and a single mint making the peace dollars - wish they would've done p d s peaces

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @dcarr said:

    @ɹoʇɔǝlloɔ said:
    they don't have original pieces, only fragments of hubs etc

    Was that stated to be the case for the Morgan, or Peace, or both ?

    If stated that only "fragments" of Peace hubs or models exist, then that is not true.
    The US Mint does have original 1921 Peace Dollar galvanos in good condition.

    Good to know. Is there any information or photos of these available?

    Obverse galvano
    (US Mint property, in the Philadelphia facility archives, photo courtesy of the US Mint):

    First reverse with broken sword, bronze casting from original plaster (owned by me, my photo):

    First reverse with broken sword, galvano from original plaster
    (US Mint property, in the Philadelphia facility archives, photo courtesy of the US Mint):

    Intermediate galvano, after sword removed (note unfinished repair to olive leaves and INCUSE rays above and below "ONE")
    (US Mint property, in the Philadelphia facility archives, photo courtesy of the US Mint):

    1964-dated obverse master hub:

    .
    They may have other Peace Dollar models and tooling, but this is what I know of.
    .

  • RedStormRedStorm Posts: 221 ✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2021 4:14AM

    Something about those mint renderings looks ‘off’ to me. The Peace rendering, for example, certainly doesn’t look as impressive as the original galvano photos.

    Also, what is the look impact of the mint using .999 silver instead of .900? Silver is denser than copper, will this mean less volume for coin striking and a potentially flatter relief than if .900 silver/.100 copper were used?

  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2021 4:36AM

    @TurtleCat said:

    @MsMorrisine said:

    @TurtleCat said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    the commemorative silver dollars are .90

    I believe that stopped with the 2019 series when everything was allowed to go to 0.999.

    there is something fundamentally wrong with these in .999

    I quite agree. Just as I thought the 2016 centennial coins should have been 0.900 gold plus made with 0.900 silver. But since the die preparation isn’t the same anymore it wouldn’t look quite right anyway. But I’ll still get some.

    The 2016 SLQ and WLH looked great and true to the original. Actually the 2016 WLH is the best rendition of the WLH as its fully struck and true to the original. You can't get the detail you got in the 2016 WLH in the original series. Only the Mercury Dime didn't look right. The WORST rendition of a classic design was the 2001 Buffalo Dollar.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olympicsos said:

    @TurtleCat said:

    @MsMorrisine said:

    @TurtleCat said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    the commemorative silver dollars are .90

    I believe that stopped with the 2019 series when everything was allowed to go to 0.999.

    there is something fundamentally wrong with these in .999

    I quite agree. Just as I thought the 2016 centennial coins should have been 0.900 gold plus made with 0.900 silver. But since the die preparation isn’t the same anymore it wouldn’t look quite right anyway. But I’ll still get some.

    The 2016 SLQ and WLH looked great and true to the original. Actually the 2016 WLH is the best rendition of the WLH as its fully struck and true to the original. You can't get the detail you got in the 2016 WLH in the original series. Only the Mercury Dime didn't look right. The WORST rendition of a classic design was the 2001 Buffalo Dollar.

    The centennial series looks fine. I have all three as well. But my preference would have been for 0.900 fine gold. I also would have preferred more of an attempt to get the diameters closer to the original size. I think it could have looked better than it did end up. But I think they really missed the boat in not making a coin silver version matching the specifications of the original planchets. If they had done that, it would have been awesome.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedStorm said:
    Something about those mint renderings looks ‘off’ to me. The Peace rendering, for example, certainly doesn’t look as impressive as the original galvano photos.

    Also, what is the look impact of the mint using .999 silver instead of .900? Silver is denser than copper, will this mean less volume for coin striking and a potentially flatter relief than if .900 silver/.100 copper were used?

    With 999 the coin will be a bit whiter and more reflective. It’s a subtle difference but it’s there. I also think some of the imperfections of die making from way back when also contributed a bit to the look we like.

  • olympicsosolympicsos Posts: 689 ✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:

    @RedStorm said:
    Something about those mint renderings looks ‘off’ to me. The Peace rendering, for example, certainly doesn’t look as impressive as the original galvano photos.

    Also, what is the look impact of the mint using .999 silver instead of .900? Silver is denser than copper, will this mean less volume for coin striking and a potentially flatter relief than if .900 silver/.100 copper were used?

    With 999 the coin will be a bit whiter and more reflective. It’s a subtle difference but it’s there. I also think some of the imperfections of die making from way back when also contributed a bit to the look we like.

    Even the modern 90% silver coins aren't anywhere near the classic coins in terms of the way they were made. The modern coins that come closest are the 1980s silver coins which had the higher relief.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    David J. Ryder, Director
    United States Mint
    801 9th Street, NW
    Washington, DC 20220

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions

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