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1914/(3) ms66 buffalo nickel being offered by Great Collections with an opening bid of $75,000!

BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 31, 2020 7:58AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Here is the MS66 1914/(3) buffalo nickel being offered now on Great Collections with an opening bid of $75K. Looking at the
photo I cannot see any evidence of the overdate feature and I doubt this will sell at that price level. And if PCGS thinks this is an overdate should'nt it should be listed as 1914/3 and not 1914/(3)?

Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"

Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,257 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks to have the upper right angle of the 3 on the right side of the top of the 4. Is there a closeup in the auction listing?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020 8:07AM

    @CaptHenway said:
    Looks to have the upper right angle of the 3 on the right side of the top of the 4. Is there a closeup in the auction listing?

    NO close up I think but I will update if I can find one. NO, I JUST CHECKED BUT IF YOU GO TO THEIR AUCTION YOU CAN GET A CLOSE UP LOOK AT IT THERE.
    THERE.

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • scotty4449scotty4449 Posts: 662 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a blowup of the date on that coin, it's a bit blurry. Cool coin, but WAY out of my price range.

  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 8,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just the date from the large TrueView.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,662 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice looking Indian Head / Buffalo Nickel, but...whoa!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,727 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The nickel itself is very eye-appealing ... but ... the idea of paying that kind of money for a variety a collector has to wonder about ...

    All glory is fleeting.
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 10,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok so there is a small bulge at the top of the four, but...

    My Lincoln Registry
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    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting opening bid. Coinfacts has it listed at $75K.

  • P0CKETCHANGEP0CKETCHANGE Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well $75k IS the PCGS Price Guide value, after all :D

    Looks like one sold in 2017 in MS65 for just over $18k, but the coin in this thread is top pop

    Nothing is as expensive as free money.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,732 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a turn-on......Not even close......

  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    a second 66 in the CoinFacts section looks like this in the date area. Similar enough for me.

  • 3stars3stars Posts: 2,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    wouldn't pay that kind of money for an error I cant see even blown up.

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • 1Bufffan1Bufffan Posts: 603 ✭✭✭

    With the "dents" on the shoulder and the first #1 and also on the ribbon how do these coins get such a high grade? a 66 should almost be spotless. or am I to critical for this coin to be in Coinfacts.

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020 3:05PM

    Not much of an underdigit on that one. It must be one of the weaker dies. There are three good dies for the 1914 4/3. Here's one of them (Die #1.) Not only can the crossbar of the underlying "3" be seen but the curvature of the "3' is evident as well.

    I don't think there's any way the Heritage coin will get an opening bid anywhere close 75 grand. And I do agree-call it what it is-an overdate.

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020 11:46AM

    Had a very colorful 63 NGC ...that got refuted here (by the experts) . Tried to cross to PCGS but they wouldn't. Sold it for under 3 grand and broke even. Ah, but a 66 in a PCGS holder. When did they change their position ... and CAC too ?

    I wonder about this. A sweet overdate in my book, just the same.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TwoSides2aCoin said:
    Had a very colorful 63 NGC ...that got refuted here (by the experts) . Tried to cross to PCGS but they wouldn't. Sold it for under 3 grand and broke even. Ah, but a 66 in a PCGS holder. When did they change their position ... and CAC too ?

    I wonder about this.

    Yes, not that long ago I thought "they" had decided that this wasn't a real overdate. Are we back to slabbing them?

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As far as I understand they will slab Dies #1 and #2 as long as it's an early enough die state to show the crossbar of the "3" clearly. And the qualifier is the 1914/(3) which would mean, to me at least, that the issue hasn't been settled. In addition to the clarity of the underdigit the other convincing evidence that it is an overdate is the presence of effacement marks around the top of the "4" as can be seen here. Mint personnel were trying to remove evidence of something, most likely an underdigit in my opinion. The confusion of its status of an overdate is the number of dies involved, some of which are very weak.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 30,380 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    As far as I understand they will slab Dies #1 and #2 as long as it's an early enough die state to show the crossbar of the "3" clearly. And the qualifier is the 1914/(3) which would mean, to me at least, that the issue hasn't been settled. In addition to the clarity of the underdigit the other convincing evidence that it is an overdate is the presence of effacement marks around the top of the "4" as can be seen here. Mint personnel were trying to remove evidence of something, most likely an underdigit in my opinion. The confusion of its status of an overdate is the number of dies involved, some of which are very weak.

    There's something like a dozen different dies. Rather unusual for an overdate. We are probably destined to never know the full story of these. I have one on my desk that I've never bothered to submit because I wasn't sure they were still slabbing them. I suppose I should roll the dice - although it's more VG than 66! LOL

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are likely the result of either an overdated working hub or an unfinished 1913 hub.

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is Die #2-

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And Die #3-


  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,257 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My THEORY is that a group of obverse dies were started and partially hubbed by the 1913 obverse hub, where the design only spread out from the center to the top of the three. It is known that at this time hubbing took multiple impressions into a conical die blank, and that the impression started in the center and spread outwards. Look at the date on the 1916 DDO nickel and you can see how one impression ended with the portion of the 1916 closest to the curved rim unformed, with the next impression from the 1916 hub complete to the rim.

    If such a group of partially formed 1913 dies were then finished with the 1914 hub you would have multiple dies showing complete 1914 dates over incomplete 3's. The various alleged 1914/3 dies all show tooling marks in the area near the remains of the alleged 3, which suggests to me that the overdating of the incomplete 1913 dies was deliberate, presumably to save money, and that a deliberate attempt was made to hide the underdates.

    I cannot prove this theory, but I believe that it is what happened. I take no offense if anybody disagrees with me, but I will stubbornly defend my right to my opinion.

    TD

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I thought pcgs stopped grading 1914/3's or something...?

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This variety will always be controversial. For that reason, I wouldn't want to be into one in the 5 figure range. Could be debunked again. It's also rather unimpressive to my eyes.
    Would rather own the awesome 1916 DDO over this one any day of the week

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    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As would I. But I feel it's a true overdate. So do many variety experts.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,646 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @3stars said:
    wouldn't pay that kind of money for an error I cant see even blown up.

    Not an error - it's a variety.

    thefinn
  • 3stars3stars Posts: 2,270 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That changes everything then

    Previous transactions: Wondercoin, goldman86, dmarks, Type2
  • BUFFNIXXBUFFNIXX Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    As would I. But I feel it's a true overdate. So do many variety experts.

    Agree with koyneqwest -- if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck -- its a duck (or maybe usually is a
    duck)

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"

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