Invalid NFC detected? New PCGS NFC holder issue
Dollar2007
Posts: 759 ✭✭✭
Hi,
I asked this question in another post but didn’t get any responses related to it. I just received another order back and now the coin in that order comes up as having invalid NFC counterfeiting technology detected as well when I scan the NFC tag with my phone (see picture below). This is now the second coin I’ve received with this issue. 
Has anyone else experienced this? I can’t believe it’s an isolated issue now that it’s happened twice in a week.
I talked to customer service about the first coin having this issue on Friday and it seems it needs to be sent back to be fixed.
Having to mail back coins is very inconvenient especially with the delays now. I’m not sure how long I’ll be without it.
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Yes. I just checked and every coin in my latest submission return has "Notice: Invalid NFC technology detected" big and red at the top of the cert page when I scan it in with my phone.
This seems to be a glitch because it does pull up the certificate page.
I will pull out some older NFC holders and check them.
Collector, occasional seller
Thanks for the reply. My understanding and me looking into how the chip works after this issue is that it generates a code each time you scan it. The chip contains the coin cert number and the website to go too. So that part will always work. But it also contains a randomly generated code that needs to match PCGS’s algorithm and that’s what provided the anti counterfeiting tech.
Anyone can make an nfc tag that goes to the cert verification page. But only pcgs can make a tag that gets the green verified message. Hence why this is very problematic if this is a widespread issue that can’t be fixed remotely.
First "older" one I tried has worked, green box in the cert page "This coin has been verified by NFC anti-counterfeiting technology."
Hmmm...
Collector, occasional seller
Yes definitely. Especially considering that all coins graded now get NFC chips.
On a related note, I have had an issue in the past where an NFC tag brought up an "invalid certificate" page. I was working with CS on that one and was told that they wouldn't have shipped it without checking that it works first, well that is obviously not 100% accurate. That was on a coin I intended to sell, so couldn't really do the back and forth with CS, I just fwd'ed the email chain to the dealer I sold it to. I don't know if it ever got fixed.
Collector, occasional seller
@ChrisH821 thats interesting, and kind of crazy. Wonder how many people haven’t yet checked their coins or don’t have the technology to do so.
I just received an AGE back with the same issue. MIght, call. Might just sell it. Dunno.
Sounds like a good way to get a chargeback or return.
I'll just break it back out, it's not a V75.
Oh ok. I misunderstood.
Who will have to pay for shipping and insurance to fix this problem? It may make sense to just hand deliver these problem slabs to PCGS at the next large coin show that PCGS is set up at.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
if you enter the cert on 'cert verification' area on homepage, what does it show?
I am not very tech savvy. As such, I would not have bothered to check my in-process order.
Now that I am aware of a potential issue, I will be ready to check the NFC chip upon receipt. Bluntly, I do not want a tech 'glitch' to complicate a future sale.
Thanks for posting about this issue.
Also, like @PerryHall, I am curious about how PCGS is handling the cost to 'fix' their issue. Are you 'willing/able' to share any details?
They are sending me a prepaid label. So other than time and more waiting to have my coin back all should be fine.
Thanks again for the 'heads-up', and for the reply.
I hope that your wait time is short.
If you just enter the cert # of a coin that has the nfc technology it gives you a banner to scan it to further verify it.
Below is the correct message of what it should display as well (green banner).
Thanks for the heads up. New technology can be a double-edged sword. Now I've gotta check all of my slabs with NFC, probably fewer than a dozen.
Good to know. I was concerned people may be counterfeiting the Gen 6.0 NFC holders already!
I was going to give this a try. Went to download the app and was told that my OS was too old. No scanning for me.
Does the verification without the app work?
You don’t need the app. But if your OS is too old for the app your phone may not have a NFC reader. See if you have a NFC reader app on the phone, or hold the phone around the top of the holder and see if you get a pop up.
Yes it will bring up a link that goes to the website and present the green or red message. It basically works the same in app or not.
I deleted the app to see if that would fix my problem, but it didn’t.
How would I get my device to read the electronic tag without the app?
Nothing automatically popped up when the coin was near the phone or tablet. I'm thinking they are too old.
Man I'm so glad I don't submit to PCGS, no scan issues for me.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
The app isn’t doing the reading necessarily. You just need to be able to read the link the tag is giving off. But I do believe on iPhone 7 and 8 and X you need to open a nfc reader app to do it, iPhone XS and above can read the tag passively without putting the phone in read mode first.
As far and what androids can do it I’m not sure.
Ok, so a 4S is a few levels below a 7. My iPad I think is 5ish. One of these days I'll upgrade
Haha yeah, no nfc reader on that one!
So, I am the devil's advocate who, in fact, have NO idea and hence have some questions:
1 do I understand that the e-RIF tag is located, built into the Slab? or
2 in the coin?
3 if it is in the slab, a thief will simply break out the coin, destroy the slab and have the coin re-graded, right?
4 if it is in the coin, it would be a totally different story
Since our host started this, I always wondered about that....
so, what is more important to be protected? the slab or the coin?
It’s in the label of the slab. It’s not for theft protection/tracking as far as I know. It’s just another way to verify the slab is real and not altered, when it works of course. It also makes it easy to get the info page up with the trueview, population info, etc. since is all you need to do is hold your phone by the slab.
@YQQ How could they put a chip in the coin without damaging it?
Please let us know the turn around time.
If it's not bad I'll take them up on a return label.
One question did they send a UPS or FedEx label or a USPS label?
I haven’t received it yet. They said it’d be processed on Friday. I may call to follow up tomorrow.
some cell phone providers are ending support for 3G phones. contact your cell company Re: ending 3G
I don't know about calling just to find out if it is USPS or not, but
if you do get through
1. tell them there is a thread on the forums about this issue
2. 2. there are others with the same problem.
I was just wondering if the coin was not in the census / population yet, giving the error.
From the looks of things they pushed this new technology out there before they had it working correctly. Sending coins back and forth is a hassle (especially this time of year). I almost had a few coins reholdered during the special but now feel lucky that I didn't. The question is how many of these are out there and people don't even know it.
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$5 Type Set https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/type-sets/half-eagle-type-set-circulation-strikes-1795-1929/album/344192
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No, it’s in the system.
Use just about any tag reader app other than the PCGS one. If you find the original NIFC thread, I posted the results of several scans w/o the PCGS app.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I never said it would not be damaged. However, if the coin world would accept it as not degrading in Value, a micro hole could be drilled with a laser and a passive macro chip inserted and the hole could be sealed again... you would never know.
so, what good does it do if the slab is "certified" as authentic and the coin is a fake?
Or, instead of drilling, a Microdot could be attached to the coin. Invisible for the human eye.
or, a formula considering the existing surface properties could be made and read by a sensor and compared with a secure database.
right now with the system, if I understand this correctly, is this:
if someone steals the slabbed coin and breaks it out and destroys the slab permanently, the coin is a free agent to be slabbed again by the same or another TPG??? or not... and goes right in to a collection as a raw coin???, right?
I would feel a lot better knowing for sure that the coin I am buying is not made by some entity other than its real source.
People can be shipped to the moon and back... to ID a coin should be a piece of cake using today's technologies..
The Secure Plus service was a coin identification system. it would map the coin so PCGS would recognize it again.
I say "was" because, as far as I know, it is no longer offered. I spent a lot of money on reholders. I hope that was not wasted money.
I am NOT an expert on PCGS 'history/marketing terms', but ...
the old "secure plus" sounds a lot like the imaging component of the current "gold shield" service.
"With PCGS Gold Shield, each coin is imaged in high resolution, registered, and checked against PCGS’ vast proprietary imaging database. Our Gold Shield system benefits from artificial intelligence and machine learning, helping our graders quickly identify and remove counterfeits from the market. PCGS Gold Shield may then identify lost or stolen pieces resubmitted to us, ensuring your coin’s maximum value. [...]"
Link: https://www.pcgs.com/goldshield
Edited To Add:
"Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) is rolling out PCGS Gold Shield™ Service, replacing PCGS Secure™ Service, effective January 1, 2018.
PCGS Gold Shield retains the process and function of PCGS Secure in that it checks coins that come through PCGS Gold Shield against a vast proprietary imaging database."
Link: https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-unveils-new-gold-shield-level
"Professional Coin Grading Service (www.PCGS.com) is rolling out PCGS Gold Shield™ Service, replacing PCGS Secure™ Service, effective January 1, 2018.
PCGS Gold Shield retains the process and function of PCGS Secure in that it checks coins that come through PCGS Gold Shield against a vast proprietary imaging database."
Link: https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-unveils-new-gold-shield-level
secure was more than an imaging database.
they scanned the coin to create an individual fingerprint. then they shot a plain photo of it. they did both.
I have another order arriving today, I'll check the NFC function on those once they arrive.
Collector, occasional seller
Wow, I have a bunch of these that I have not checked.
Do not think I want to check them right now
I will check then before the next Long Beach coin show that I attend tho
I received it. It’s a FedEx ground label. May not mail until after the holidays though.
Thanks for the education.
OK so other sub just arrived(BTW UPS signature which was just left on my doorstep). Out of 9 coins, 6 have "Invalid NFC technology".
Of course the most valuable coin in the bunch is one of those 6.
So in total, out of the last 15 coins I have sent in, 12 are "invalid"....
There seems to be a major issue at PCGS which needs sorting.
@CSMgr
Collector, occasional seller
ugh. There 'has' to be a way they can correct this locally. Otherwise, they've created one hell of a headache for themselves.
Agreed.
Unfortunately, this is not something that customers can just let 'slide'.
When we go to sell these coins, potential buyers are likely going to want to authenticate via the NFC chip. Accordingly, this issue has to be corrected.
Hi, thank you all for reporting this. We are currently looking into possible causes for this. We could use some additional information from you all to help track down what the cause might be and when it might have started:
1) What day did you first notice this occurring? (If you can recall)
2) What device make/model are you using? (Android or iOS and device model)
3) Are you always seeing the same behavior on the website as the app? i.e. if you scan with the app it says invalid, if you scan without the app it says invalid on the website (I have seen screenshots from both in this thread)
4) Do coins/banknotes that are returning invalid errors ALWAYS return that or do they sometimes return valid?
5) Are all the coins from an entire order having this issue or is random?
I may follow up with more questions as they arise.
Software Engineer, PCGS
app@pcgs.com