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Was Randy Moss the best receiver ever?
doubledragon
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in Sports Talk
Randy Moss says he is the best receiver ever, and he says number 2 would be Terrell Owens, and Jerry Rice would be number 3 or 4 on his list of all time best wide receivers. So, was he the best ever?
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Jerry Rice and it's not close.
Jerry is #1 but Randy would be #1 if he had Jerry's work ethic. He had more natural and athletic gifts than Jerry but didn't put in the effort. I'd put Randy at #2 but Jerry is a clear #1.
He was certainly gifted, check out this ridiculous one handed catch.
IF Moss would have put out an effort after his first 4-5 years he MIGHT have broken Rice's records. Certainly had the talent.
I wouldn't put him on my team, I'd play with 10 and win more games.
Quitter.
Owens was better, he never quit, although he was a strange fellow.
Give me a guy like Cris Carter (when he played for the Vikings) 100% effort 100% of the time. Quite talented too.
Moss the best braggart, Rice the best receiver.
alright, I will advocate for the devil here. for the vast majority of rices career he caught balls from 2 top tier hofers. Moss didnt have that luxury for the bulk of his career. keep in mind that WR is the most dependant position in sports. all you can do is get open. if you are not playing with a high level qb, you had better be extremely skilled.
as far as skills: Moss has better speed, leaping ability, hands (rice also had good hands, but was an admitted stickum user)
Rice: route runner
most say rice was more dedicated. i would disagree. i think randy got bored when he was on a team with no chance to win, ie raiders. when he was on a team with a good chance of winning, he was 100 percent on board and dominated. rice spent the bulk of his career on contenders. it is not so hard to get up for games when they all mean something. i wonder if rices dedication would have been different had he played for the jets or the lions?
I say Moss was the better reciever, rice played on better teams.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
RIDICULOUS!
Every Minnesota team Moss played on finished either in first or second place in their division from 1998-2004........except 1 year. For most of his time here he played with Daunte Culpepper who made three pro bowls. Vikings were a top 5 offense every year but 2001.
After two years in Oakland, one of which he was terrible, he goes to New England and plays with Brady, everyone's GOAT.
I saw him and was a big fan at first. Here's the facts;
Moss was tremendous his first 3 seasons and then things changed, he became RANDY MOSS, and it was a bad thing.
His effort on the field drastically diminished. He refused to go across the middle and if confronted by a talented and aggressive corner-back, he usually disappeared. He even walked off the field with time left on the clock saying he was "tired".
All most of the rest of the country saw was his highlights. I got to see the ugliness.
Chris Carter, and MANY more players were better than Moss. Not more talented, just better.
Nah, Carter wasn't better. He was more reliable and you could count on him for 7 catches at 12 yds a pop and there's definitely a place for guys like that. But elite wide receivers can go deep, too. And Carter wasn't an elite deep threat.
Jerry Rice
I’ll toss an interesting candidate in there: Andre Johnson.
The guy had all the talent, all the tools and was consistently spectacular. And I don’t think he played with even one decent quarterback; in fact, I can’t think of even one that didn’t come from the recycling bin.
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Oh my goodness, Jerry Rice strikes back at Randy Moss. He tells Moss, "Look at the stats, you got mossed!"
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/19/jerry-rice-tells-randy-moss-to-look-at-the-stats-you-got-mossed/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Joe, you have finally jumped the shark.
chris carter??? chris carter?!?!?!?
RIDICULOUS!
you are seriously comparing daunte culpepper to montana and young! come on. you are comparing the 98-04 vikings to the 49ers of the 80s-90s? when exactly was culpepper a great QB? let me answer for you, ONLY the years he played with Moss. even then he was only good for 3 of those years.
yes, Moss played with the goat for 2 years. both years he led the league in TDs.
how do you think the statistics may have looked had rice and moss switched teams? do you think rice may have become a bit disinterested? would he have gotten frustrated playing with lesser QBs? would moss have been more engaged? what if rice had played with no super glue on his hands?
WR is a diva position. i dont like it, but its just the nature of the beast. I know one thing, if i my team is in the big game and its one on one coverage, give me moss. hes faster, taller and has better hands. he didnt need the west coast offense to catch 6 yard slants and get yac. he could beat his man down the field consistently.
chris carter?!?!?!? CHRIS CARTER?!?!!?? he was a great hof reciever, i loved watching him. he was a couple steps below both rice and moss.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I say between Randy Moss and Terrell Owens those were the best. I don’t expect many to agree with me but that’s my opinion
Rice played way longer and had Montana and Steve Young throwing to him for the majority of his career. If Moss or Owens had the attitude, work ethic and longevity as Rice did they would be neck and neck on the receiving records
Without Cris Carter there would be no Randy Moss. Carter helped Moss to hone his skills. Too bad that Carter's work ethic and other life lessons did not rub off on Moss.
I love how Moss's discussion of the "greatest ever" only includes 2-3 guys that played during his career. No one before or after is worth a damn, I guess.
every player that comes through the system has coaches and teammates who help younger players improve. yes, i am sure carter helped randy out, but it is not a singular instance in all sports. I believe carter was either a drug addict or alcoholic, i cant remember which when he was a young player. you can bet he had a role model, or a team worth of them to get him through those times.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
this is a good point todd. to be honest, don hutson was probably the greatest wideout ever. sometimes it is easy to get locked into a couple of names. if you look at his numbers, he lead his league in catches, yards and touchdowns more than moss or rice. significantly more. his raw numbers are lower because they played fewer games and the rules were different.
I think you may have officially changed my mind sir. hutson dominates his peers on a level the same as jim brown and otto graham did. I would say that for the old timers, a step below hutson would be raymond berry and lance alworth.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I_ SAID_ Culpepper was All-Pro 3 times. He was a very good QB until he got hurt. NOBODY would compare him to Montana or Young.
Never won the big game either. Look it up, Moss sucked in big games. Funny how Brady could win with everyone else.
>
Well, they didn't, if Rice was a Viking they would have never traded him! Moss was a disaster, the Vikings had to practically give him away to get rid of him. He responded by playing ok for one year and then QUITTING on his team mates. He was HOF at that!
Faster, taller, better hands , you forgot to mention QUITTER! I don't have a problem with a diva if they play hard all the time.
I_ watched every game_ played by Carter and Moss for the Vikings and Carter was 100 times better than Moss. What you didn't see. was that if RANDY MOSS lost interest he completely disappeared, and he lost interest a LOT. Faster and taller don't mean much when you don't put forth effort. Funny how short his arms got when he was asked to go across the middle.
Quitters never win, and Randy was a big time quitter. I saw it a lot after his first 3 years or so. Cris Carter NEVER gave up on a football field when he was with the Vikes.
BTW Carter was All-Pro 8 times to Moss' 6.
Again, after his first 3 years Randy simply NEVER was the guy who made a play at the end of a game to give your team a chance NEVER. He was great at the start of games if the defense didn't cover him, and at "garbage time" if the game was out of reach.
Rice (and Carter) were the guys getting open and helping their teams no matter how tough the opponent.
I saw it, not just the highlight reels and misleading statistics. Remember, I am a Vikings fan we know about losing and losers.
Moss is, and always was, an idiot. I heard all his ridiculous comments here when he played for the Vikings. Fans across the country never got to see a LOT of his foolishness.
What's that got to do with how he played football?
To Carter's credit, IF he had personal problems when he was with the Eagles he addressed them and became one of the fiercest competitors I have ever seen on a football field.
He never intentionally ran over anyone with his car either like Randy.
Hutson was one of the best if not the best.
Swan
I have always said that Moss should have rewritten all the record books, but he had other things on his mind. The only receiver who I would say had as much or more skills was Calvin Johnson and apparently he just couldn't keep playing, because of injury or playing for a horrible team
Moss was finished at 32 because nobody wanted to put up with his BS. He was cut by the Vikings when he came back in 2010 because he was an a$$. Best move Brad Childress ever made.
Owens didn't begin his career until he was 23 and played until he was 37 and had almost 1,000 yards receiving in his final year.
Chris Carter was still going to the pro bowl at 35.
Jerry Rice, like Michael Jordan were guys that only cared about one thing, beating the opponent.
Not only was Jerry Rice the greatest receiver ever but he’s the greatest football player ever.
Just look at the records he shattered, not broke, shattered and in this pass happy era how long they’ve stood and still stand.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
This year Travis Kelce is better than any wide receiver.
Maybe the first tight end ever to lead in receiving yards.
Man that sure was foolish talk back when most people thought Kittles was as good or better than Kelce. LOL.
75% of what you said here was ridiculous. honestly who cares about all pro selections. a popularity contest just like all star selections and gold gloves.
I see you have a love affair with chris carter. thats ok. i liked him too, just not in these guys league.
you cannot compare the qbs who threw to these two guys.
by the way, statistics dont lie. unless you are talking about defensive baseball metrics. if we cant use the statistical records, all we have left is memory and conjecture. neither of which are very reliable.
all of that to say that I took a bit of a deep dive into don hutson this afternoon. forget moss, rice, carter, owens etc. hutson was the man.
period.
the man.
he was a man amongst boys. he dominated the league like no one i can see except jim brown. Hutson was the greatest wideout to ever play. not even really close. look at the numbers.
in his 11 years in the nfl, he led in touchdowns 9 times. 9 times. he also led in total touchdowns 7 times. that was in a run dominated league. that is INSANE.
he led in receptions 8 times and yards 7 times.
oh, and by the way. he led the league in interceptions one season and also led in extra point kicks 3 years. I think i may have a favorite non QB.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
100% of what I said is spot on. Statistics are fine, but combining them with observation is better.
Nice to see you are finally learning about Don Hutson, keep learning and you will find MANY more great players.
I don't have "love affair" with Cris Carter. I watched him play along with the supremely over rated Moss for 4 years and he was by FAR the better player, not even close. Sounds more like you have the love affair with a quitter, good luck with that.
Superbowls
Player Rec Yards Avg TDs
Moss 5 62 12.4 1 Loss
Rice 11 215 19.5 1 WIN
Rice 7 148 21.1 3 WIN
Rice 10 149 14.9 3 WIN
Rice 5 77 15.4 1 WIN
The role of WR has changed so much over the years that picking the best will always be nothing more than conjecture. But Don Hutson? He's a legitimate candidate for greatest PLAYER of all time. At least, any argument that he is not is nothing but conjecture.
The fact that he had almost 8000 yards receiving in the 30’s and 40’s is absolutely unbelievable
hutson was head and shoulders above his contemporaries. the only accurate way to compare players from different eras. He was more dominant in his era than either rice or moss.
case closed
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Can you imagine Don Hutsons record if Otto Graham was his QB.
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Ralph
Can you imagine what Randy's record would be if he hadn't been stoned?
I want Larry to play 3 more seasons so he can break Rice career receptions record!
Carter was a 2x All-Pro, Randy was a 4x All-Pro.
Selected to Pro Bowl, not first team.
Moss more physically gifted than just about anyone, not as good as Cris Carter as a player and especially team mate.
Here's another example of Moss' effect on his team. After his true colors came out in his 4th season, Head Coach Mike Tice implemented the "Randy Ratio" because if they didn't get Randy more involved in the game, he "lost interest".
Great, now instead of worrying how to win games we have to focus on Randy or he quits.
Best ever?
.
Oh, you're talking Pro Bowl. That's different than All-Pro.
I remember when Steve Largent got his revenge on Mike Harden. There's a great story behind this hit if you have a few minutes to read it.
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/seattle-seahawks/seahawks-legend-steve-largent-hitting-mike-harden-payback-hell
thats a great story about largent. i am glad he got his revenge. i cant believe he never wore a mouthguard and he lost 8 teeth on the first play. what a brutal sport.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm with Banzai.
I'm not a Vikings fan but I can remember what a problem Moss was if he didn't get his catches.
Me first attitude instead of a team attitude. Players like that just don't fit in. I'd rather have a guy
that goes hard every down he's in the game than a prima donna who sulks when he doesn't get his way.
So Jerry Rice hands down better than Moss and it isn't even close.
I couldn't believe it either, I can't imagine losing 8 teeth. It is definitely a painful sport to play.
Great story!
Largent was better than Moss as well.
Rice had that incredible work ethic that is so admirable. But I lost all my respect for him when he .....
-went after Tom Brady and accused him of cheating days after admitting to using stickum. He said everyone did it. Chris Carter and Michael Irvin disputed that, with Irvin also adding that Aikman would not have tolerated stickum on the footballs.
-immediately said he did done research and found out it had been illegal to use stickum
-and then recanted his use of stickum
-was then research proved, way back in 1993 or do, to have talked about stickum and referenced it's illegality
Rice had the dropsies as a rookie, and blamed it on using gloves after playing bardhandee in college. He stopped using them, and later went to them again...with sudden great hands.
So I consider his numbers tainted. Though prior to all this I always thought of his as the Goat receiver.
These are the best two I saw other than Rice. So I agree. Owens was in Dallas starting my first year living here. I couldn't believe he wasn't a first ballot HOFer. Great teammate, probably not. But what a receiver. I agree with the negative stuff said about Miss, who gave up on plays and games. And wouldn't go over the middle. But he is still top two to me.
Edit to add: maybe not best ever, but Irvin is up there. Living here in DFW, the anecdotes are non stop and impressive. He could get it done, and was amazing as a teammate. I love his stories of calling his agent before a game and telling him to just write out a check to the league now because he was going to get fined. Because he was going to establish himself early and aggressively against whatever DB was in him. The early 90s Cowboys talk about how they knew that to have individual success on and off the field, they needed to have success as a team.
I hadn't heard that stickum story (I am not a big NFL fan so don't pay a lot of attention) but it reminds me of watching Lester Hayes of the Raiders on TV as a kid with just globs and globs of that crap all over his hands.
Days before chastising Brady publically, he admitted to it. So some NFL reporters, notably Florio, really went after him. But most stayed quiet.
If you have to tell everyone you're the greatest......you're probably not. I think Rice was the best I've seen but also Calvin Johnson was pretty hard to beat even though he spent his career on a lousy team.
NFL HOF Set
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/398345
Jerry Rice has taken another swipe at Randy Moss. This time he says, "He can be no.1 if he wants, but for me it was all about the rings."
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/12/21/jerry-rice-randy-moss-can-be-no-1-if-he-wants-for-me-it-was-all-about-the-rings/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
I love it. shots fired. both of these guys are alpha dogs and they both think they are the best
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.