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Top pop bonus points are great for coins, but they should not apply to pop 1 labels in the Registry

Why does a pop 1 label that is graded 70 get a higher Registry rating than the other graded 70's with normal labels?

I can see them commanding higher prices, but they are not better coins.

To me this is a real problem as a Professional Coin Grading Service, the coins should be the most important. Labels are great and I fully support signed labels, special labels for a good cause, etc. Plenty of people like to collect various coin labels.

But in the Registry there should not be extra top pop points awarded to any 70 coin, just because it has a different, unobtainable label.

See below. Note how many collectors have all 70 coins, but the single piece of paper prevented them getting a blue icon.

https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/silver-gold-platinum-eagles/silver-gold-platinum-eagles-major-sets/silver-eagles-burnished-2006-present/7695

Something to consider revising in 2021.

National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/195526

Comments

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2020 9:34PM

    I am confused Goldminers. There are myriad signed labels for these silver eagles, gold eagles, etc. Is it just those Mercanti labels receiving extra points? For example, I could put your B. Bush PR70 gold coin in a low pop Cleveland signed label. Would you also receive the extra point(s)? Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2020 8:56AM

    @wondercoin said:
    I am confused Goldminers. There are myriad signed labels for these silver eagles, gold eagles, etc. Is it just those Mercanti labels receiving extra points? For example, I could put your B. Bush PR70 gold coin in a low pop Cleveland signed label. Would you also receive the extra point(s)? Wondercoin

    The link I put above shows a Mercanti label pop 1, receiving an extra point above the normal 70 to 71 point bonus, for also being a pop 1 coin label. My point is that I do not think the label should trump the coin at the highest level because this seems to be very unfair to all 70 collectors.

    There are 15,722 SP70 eagles in 2011 like the link shows for Action coin set. However, they have one of those with a single pop label so they get awarded a 71.083 set rating and moved to the top of all those other collectors with perfect 70 coins.

    A 71 rating should be as high as registry goes. If it was the only 70 graded coin then it really is a top pop so it should get the bonus point.

    When you find a 1982 Washington commemorative half dollar in a real 70 grade, and it is the only one, it should get the top pop extra bonus of course. But if you put a single label on the 69 graded coin, it would count in the registry as a 70 rating and move above all other top commemorative sets.

    As someone who has all 70's in many complete modern sets, having a label move anyone, including me, above all the other 70 collectors is wrong.

    I don't think it is just Mercanti labels. If I paid you for one of your special David Hall labels for example, and you only issued one for a Barbara Bush proof, it would get an extra point, and my already #1 gold 70 spouse set would get a higher rating. That would be unfair to all other collectors who also have all 70's that are tied with my set.

    Again, I think all the labels are fine and there are many varieties. My only disagreement is for a single label to make all the work I did getting all 70's coins meaningless in the Registry.

    National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/195526

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Goldminers...

    I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. I also don’t agree with everything you said either. For one, I always thought “First Strike” should receive a bonus point as compared to non-FS. What is your position on this?

    Also, I think there is a place for signatures in the registry. Such as special registry sets with signatures. This way collectors can collect coins with or without signatures. The same way they collect coins with or without First strike. Seems reasonable to you?

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wondercoin,

    Yes, special signature Registry sets sound like a good idea to me. Even special label sets like for basketball player signatures or like what was done for the exclusive Naismith labels, etc. is great and gets new collectors involved.

    I also agree and support the separate First Strike sets for those who want to have as many of those lower pop items as possible.

    But the base case Registry set should be based on the coins. The highest quality coins and set ratings based on the established Set Compositions should be the criteria. In those "base case" Registry sets if a coin is a real top pop that really deserves a bonus.

    I personally don't agree with First Strikes, or other labels on "base case" registry sets getting extra bonuses. Re-labelling a coin to get an extra point just seems wrong to me in a "base case" set. Coins should be rewarded for what they are, not what they are in.

    Just my :)

    National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/195526

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Great. So, we are mostly in full agreement on everything. Now, we should try to talk with set registry in the near future and see if they agree too. Wondercoin.

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • JonJetJonJet Posts: 100 ✭✭

    In the case of a First Strike coin...the FS labeling certifies that the coin was presented to PCGS for grading within the first 30 days of the coin's production

    That designation IS coin-based...and deserving of a higher rating than coins that come later...regardless of labels or signatures or specialty variety options for coins produced after the first 30 days since the release date (since everyone knows the dies do wear slightly and the FS designation is based on production)

    So...if the coin was minted for 90 days...the first 1/3 of the coins could possibly get the FS label - but many proof sets are purchased within 30 and never got sent to PCGS...making the FS coins that much more desirable and a much lower number of them

    I'll buy a FS any day over a later label...and 18 of the 2020 coins in My collection are FS's...the 19th is a FDOI...all are PR70DCAM

    I look forward to the rankings once the Proof Set is created to see if the FS gives My collection an upper hand

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “In the case of a First Strike coin...the FS labeling certifies that the coin was presented to PCGS for grading within the first 30 days of the coin's production”... That designation IS coin-based...and deserving of a higher rating than coins that come later...regardless of labels or signatures or specialty variety options for coins produced after the first 30 days since the release (since everyone knows the dies do wear slightly and the FS designation is based on production)“

    Jonjet- the FS designation at PCGS has nothing to do with any particular coin that qualifies for FS being an early produced coin off a die. A coin could, in theory, be the last coin produced from a die (and the most worn) and still get the FS designation if the Mint shipped it out within the first 30 days, etc.

    Hence, why is the FS label any different and more significant than, say, a signature label?

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • JonJetJonJet Posts: 100 ✭✭

    The US Mint will typically produce coins on a 90-day production schedule...

    Therefore...coins presented to PCGS within the first 30 days since the release of the coin qualify for the First Strike label

    No FS coin is going to be the last coin struck from the die...making the FS and FDOI labels a certification that is based on coin production

    The back of every FS coin case certifies the FS designation compliance as being met

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 15,968 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jonjet. Regrettably, you do not understand the “First Strike” label and it appears you are not interested in learning either. So, I am finished trying to educate you.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • smalltimesmalltime Posts: 73 ✭✭✭

    In my opinion the label doesn't make the coin, the qualities of the coin do, hence grades are assigned. I collect coins, not paper labels. Additionally, if a label such as FS, FDOI or FO gives a coin more grading points than the actual grade, then there is a problem.

  • HashTagHashTag Posts: 125 ✭✭✭

    How about a coin that CoinFacts shows pop of with zero higher? The only PL in that year but there are 12 in higher non PL grades. Confusing.

  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 1,866 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think if it is a top pop coin it does get an extra bonus in the registry.

    National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/195526

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