Holabird sells Robert Bashlow's Confederate Cent Dies!
Zoins
Posts: 34,113 ✭✭✭✭✭
An interesting item for sale in Holabird Western's Cornucopia of Collectibles auction on October 18, 2018 was a set of Confederate Cent dies attributed to Bashlow.
The lot description is says that these were sold by Robert Bashlow to Paul Franklin. However, this set isn't defaced and doesn't look like any version of the original Lovett dies given the number 1 is so wide in 1 cent. Are these really Bashlow dies and are pieces struck from these common?
These sold for $1,150.00 + $287.50 BP, or $1337.50.
https://www.icollector.com/Bashlow-Confederate-Cent-Restrike-Dies_i31463990
Holabird Western - Cornucopia of Collectibles - 2018 October Auction - Lot 2071
Bashlow Confederate Cent Restrike Dies
Obverse and reverse dies for the Bashlow Confederate Cent restrikes. Bashlow had the original Confederate dies and restruck the coins from the original dies in 1961. He later made restrike dies (more than one set, according to one source), and made additional restrikes . This set was purchased directly from New York Coin dealer Bashlow by Paul Franklin. The original dies were purchased by John J. Ford in 1954, sold to Bowers, then Bashlow in 1961, and later gifted to the Smithsonian. Bashlow also had a set of J.J. Conway dies, from which thousands of restrikes were made. [see Moulton, K., John J. Ford Jr. and the Franklin Hoard, 2013] City: State: Date: HWAC# 81122
Here's a Robert Bashlow / August Frank restrike for comparison:
Comments
Those dies are way off from a Bashlow cent. The designs on both sides are very different.
Without a definitive connection to Bashlow I suspect that description is blatantly false.
As I understand it (and as mentioned in the other thread) Bashlow could not ultimately pay his bills for the project with the transfer dies, so I don't see him undertaking a separate CSA cent project as well.
Was anything ever struck from those dies? If so, who sold the struck pieces?
Those dies are way off from the Bashlow restrikes; the lower curl of the hair, too small of chin, rounded nose, too many stars on the cap, tip of the cap, two dots at the date, letters are too big on the reverse, the previously mention "1", etc...
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Interesting dies. Bashlow transfer dies would show rust bubbles and cancel marks. Not sure who made those.
I wonder if the numbers 7 11 61 stands for July 11, 1961?? S4? The manufacturer date?
Fascinating. I have not seen this before, and I have no idea what they are.
They are certainly not direct descendants of the Lovett dies. I would call them imitations of the Lovett dies, made by persons unknown. I would speculate that they were made in 1961 by somebody who was planning to sell replica Confederate cents to take advantage of the Civil War Centennial. I would further speculate that the issue never happened because Bashlow issued his Confederate cents with at least some link to the Lovett dies. This is, as I say, speculation.
Where are these now?
TD
Perhaps the thread title needs to be updated.
I seem to recall a second issue, with new dies and a few struck, is mentioned in “the book” on the Confederate Cent. I can’t access my copy at present though.
In regards to the questions posed in the OP, 1. yes (at least in part) and 2. no, not at all.
ambro51 is on one of the right tracks. The thread title can stay as is (IMHO).
Awesome info on the dies @ambro51 and @tokenpro! I didn't know about these British "Restrikes". This is what makes these forums so great!
Here's the info from Harold Levi and George Corell. I wonder which mint made the dies and new pieces? Looks like someone got an amazing deal on the dies with a great Paul Franklin and Fred Holabird provenance!
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Lovett_Cent_A_Confederate_Story/_JN2ifV4XIwC?
Great info! Someone got a great deal on those dies!
I wish I saw the auction! I would have bid aggressively.
I wonder who has them now and when they'll show up again?
I'm glad we have the Holabird photos and description!
I put an exclamation point on the end
Did Dan Carr buy the dies
How far we've come....
I recall when the original Bashlow restrikes didn't get much respect, and here we are celebrating subsequent fantasy dies that were never even put into full production.
I'm not saying it's wrong, but I can't quite reconcile it all just yet.
Others have been striking replicas of the CSA cents since the early 1960s. Are those dies also highly collectable?
Non-Bashlow copies are generally shunned - do they deserve another look?
they are all copies off of Fantasy dies, why would collectors view any of them differently when they all have the exact same connection to the civil war and the confederacy? They are all tribute tokens made by private mints/coin dealers after the war and that counts the "originals". The only difference is how may decades after the war they were made and which coin dealer commissioned them
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
When I joined the forums, Bashlow's restrikes were still struggling to get acceptance and PCGS didn't slab them yet (or Civil War tokens or So-Called Dollars).
Remember this 2010 thread from @ambro51:
A Gripe with the Redbook regarding Bashlow 'restrike' of the Confederate Cent
Fast forward to today and PCGS is slabbing these and I'm getting way outbid on these.
I tried to buy this set of 6 trial strikes this year but was outbid to $7,200!
https://coins.ha.com/itm/confederate-states-of-america/circa-1962-set-of-six-bashlow-confederate-cent-second-restrike-trial-pieces-bertram-b861-211-through-b861-216/a/1312-3454.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515
That about sums it up. The level of interest seems to involve the differences, which include how much of the history is known including issuer, minter, mintages, etc.
I addition to these, I wish there were less people interested in the New Haven / Scovill Fugios and Bolen Bar Cent and other copies.
The trials have incredibly small mintages compared to Bashlows regular run. That complete set may be unique. Regarding “Restrikes”, a fair analogy would be the New Haven Fugio issue. They succeeded in attaching themselves to the shirttails of a legitimate colonial. Here we see how a quality and historically accurate replication of an the CSA Cent has done exactly the same thing. •••• Well I Wanted PCGS to slab the things ten years ago, it took them this long. Wish I hadn’t spent my pocket piece
The 1837 half cent token is another example that has ingrained itself into a series mostly due to its long inclusion in the Red Book.
Although they do have somewhat "incredibly small mintages", the Bashlow trials in the various materials show up much more frequently than the Bashlow "London" third restrike CSA cents.
Yikes!
Back about 20 years ago I was actively searching Ebay for the Bashlow CSA cents. I'd bid on any that did not get too expensive. I picked up several of the bronze (I am sure I did not pay more than $25 for any of them and average cost was in the teens) and one Goldine.
I missed the silver because they were a bit too expensive to buy raw and not in hand.
Along the way I did pick up a tin version in one of those red Capital holders, although the token is a little more gray than the one pictured above. I paid $36 for it.
Here's a good E-Sylum article with first hand information on Bashlow from his business partner. David Laties, and Dick Johnson who was involved with the project. From the above, Bashlow was friends with John Ford and knew Paul Franklin.
https://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v10n18a15.html
Of note, his full name is: Robert Socrates Bashlow
Want to know something even crazier?
I paid up for a fake Bashlow Second Restrike! It's a gold thin planchet which is at least 3.7g of 10k gold. It also has a nice provenance of Art Kagin and Tom Jankovsky.
Has any more information become available on these?
Third restrike.
Great piece @tokenpro! I'll have to keep an eye out for them now!
In April 2019, Littleton indicated their President David Sundman purchased 2 complete sets for them. I wonder if thee Heritage March 2020 set is one of the Littleton sets or a 3rd set?
https://blog.littletoncoin.com/strike-and-strike-again/
Of note, the Heritage and Littleton blog holders have some different colors:
Good luck with that.
Keep your eyes open next time you walk around Philadelphia. I understand Lovett lost one of the “originals” somewhere.
He most likely lost it in a Walmart parking lot. That seems to be where most of the newly found rare coins come from.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
so is the auction description correct? they seem to be the 2nd round of copies made in 1961/2.
Similar sets but lower MS have sold at auction for around $5000 around 2 years ago. So respect, except from Red Book, they are getting.
This was my set. Apparently it was for sale at Littleton for quite a while. After it sold I bought the second set. Couldn't believe they hadn't sold.