Do YOU think Andruw Jones is the Best CF ever? Or that Maddux is better than The Rocket?? Please rea

YanksFan

I was actually laughing about what you wrote. Then I realized you were serious about Jones being the "greatest" CF in the game. Beckett listed players who have a valid shot at making the HOF, not just locks. Here were some of the younger guys; Vlad Guerrero and he's only 26, they also listed Jeter and Arod, there only 27. So him being 24 isn't a good excuse. Also, I know that Big Bernie is not the greatest centerfielder of all time, but he is very consistent. A more well rounded player than Jones who's currently batting .272.
So I put together some stats.
These are the catagories I listed, because they have nothing to do with how long a certain player has been in the game, but how consistent.

Career Averages

OBP SLG AVG FPCT
1.) A. Jones .341 .490 .268 .988
2.) B. Williams .390 .497 .305 .989
3.) K. Griffey Jr. .379 .564 .295 .986
4.) J. Damon .347 .427 .288 .989
5.) J. Edmonds .378 .524 .295 .990

Now granted, Jones will hopefully not get injured and he will improve. But no where near the levels you expect of him. So I used the same thing you do, averages. Now you will probably will come back and say something about him being 24 or something to that effect. I've just compared him to his peers and he looks to be in the middle of the pack, not on top.


How do you figure that the Yankees bought there titles, the salaries for the Yanks and Braves are nearly identical and the Braves have 1 ring to show for it. Now when you say the Yankees have bought there titles, back it up with facts, not talk.

Please explain to me, by numbers how Jones is the best, not by opinions.

Jones is batting .272, hows that awesome? I'll give it up to Furcal and Glavine. But back to the Maddux/Clemens thing. Clemens been in 2 extra years, but did Maddux win the MVP his 2nd year? Do you think he will win 2 more Cy Young awards and Clemens won't win anymore? Do you think that Maddux will overtake Clemens in the win column? Maddux did strike out alot of batters, only later in his career did his mostly work for ground balls.

W L ERA SO FPCT
Clemens- 288 148 3.13 3837 .971
Personal Best season- 24 4 2.48 238 .923

W L ERA SO FPCT

Maddux- 264 148 2.85 2574 .968
Personal Best Season- 20 10 2.36 197 .933

So in those 2 extra years that Clemens had he amassed
- 24 more victories
- No more losses(which means Maddux losing more games a year then Clemens)
- 1263 more strikeouts
- A better fielding percentage(So shutup about those Golden Gloves)


Clemens also had
-4 more 20+ win seasons
-An unprecedented 6 CY Young awards, he will probably get 1 more before he retires.

Maddux will go down as one of the best in the last half century, but not the best. Hate to break it to you, chum. But Clemens is a better pitcher.

Hoping for a reply, but not expecting one. From Derrick anyway...

KLS23

Yanksfan,

Actually, I would have to argue that at least offensively even Carlos Delgado has been better than Andruw Jones and several others on your list.....check out his career stats:

OBP: .388
SLG: .551
AVG: .280

He also has over 1,000 hits and heading towards 250 HR's. Carlos kind of plays in obscurity being in Toronto.....

Ken

YanksFan

There are alot of better players than Jones, I think he's a overrated player. I was just listing CF, but look at ANY OF position and Jones is no where near the top outfielder, probably in the middle-lower stats wise anyway. But you know those Braves fans, always talking s*it and not backing it up.

Thanks for the stats on Delgado.

alaneads

Ok for Andruw Jones, I believe they were talking about him being the best centerfielder. NOT the best hitting centerfielder. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

YanksFan

alanheads-Thats why I also included the Fielding Percentage. Out of the 5 guys I listed, his fielding percentage was fourth overall. Not the best in my books.

KLS23

Alaneads,

Ok, granted Andruw Jones is better defensively than Carlos Delgado and maybe all the others in that list....but both offense and defense count. Which is more important? Unless you are an absolutely horrible fielder(Jose Canseco) I believe you have more opportunities(3-6) to affect a game at the plate than you have in the outfield. I went to two MLB baseball games this weekend and I didn't see the outfielders have to run down any impossibly long balls or dive for any balls either game. Either they were down or they were caught.

Also, best ever?!?!?!? Willie Mays? I could name 10 guys real quick who I think are better all-time......

Ken

SlipKnot515

I can almost guarantee that in 10 years, Andruw will be the best CF around in MLB......he is not right now...he still strikes out too much and needs to bring his average up...but his power numbers are coming along quite well...you can't deny that he has made great advancements in the past few years....and he is ONLY 24....

lafrentz06

Piazza is the best catcher......

Derrick

LOL, and the hating parade continues I see. First, how long has Bernie Williams been playing? A helluva lot longer than Andruw Jones I would say...correct me if I'm wrong...which I'm not. The longer you play and the more games you rack up, the harder it is for a percentage to go up or down...being that Andruw has played a lot less games than Bernie, it might be a little hard to tell who's better or not. They both have great percentages, and Andruw Jones committed a lot of errors in his first two seasons, so of course it's going to dip a little bit...but you take into account of what he has done the past 4 seasons in CF and anyone would tell you that he's the best CF in baseball hands down, and I'm not just saying that because he's a Braves player. You would agree with me if you seen the guy play every game. He saves more hits than he gets and he gets PLENTY. Right now Andruw is in a little bit of a slump at the plate...his averaged has dipped from about .295 to .272, but it'll rise again...just give it time. He's a streak hitter, and he's coming around with his offense and having his best over-all season. DEFENSIVELY he's the best...no one said anything offensively.

Bobby Cox is 60 and was a third baseman for the Yankees for a couple of years. He has seen a lot of players and he says Andruw Jones is a better center fielder than Willie Mays. As a matter of fact he says Jones is the best he's ever seen and a lot of baseball people echo that opinion.

I've been watching professional baseball for a long while and I've never seen one like him. The man makes impossible plays routinely. It's worth the price of admission just to watch him play.

Greg Maddux said one day, "you have no idea how comforting it is to have Andruw back of you when you're on the mound." And Tom Glavine echoed him.

KLS23

Derrick,

Just for the record....I am not hating. I like Andruw Jones and I think he is a d*mn good player. We would love to have him in the O's outfield....

Ken

awaltz

Probably already mentioned, but Andrew Jones is the BEST of the BEST in DEFENSE!! I mean that. He is the best you can find ANYWHERE, while he does have speed and a little more than AVG power.

~Austin

YanksFan

Over the past 4 full seasons...
Andruw Jones has commited 20 errors
Bernie Williams has commited 10 errors

Please explain to me how Jones is better? You told me to compare the past 4 seasons and I did. Also, I collect Chipper and Andruw's rookies, I'm a HUGE fan of both, just trying to tell you he's not the best.





BTW-Opinions are like a-holes, everyones got one.

Derrick

Hmm, Bernie is definitely better than Andruw Jones...that would be like a joke of the century! He might have more errors and that's because he gets more chances...He has more putouts, and assists to his credit. You also have to look at the GAMES played...Andruw Jones goes out and plays EVERY GAME while Bernie gets hurt a lot more...and doesn't play as many games...Let him play as many games as Andruw and it'd be different...The bottom line...is Andruw Jones gets to balls that no one is baseball can get to and he makes it look easy...that's what so special about AJ...he gets to the balls easily, when it'd be a lot tougher for other players to make...Andruw Jones is flat out the best centerfielder and one of the top 5 position players in the game today. Good parenting has instilled a sense of value. He's made mistakes, and he is grown up enough to admit them, take responsibility for them, and learn from them. There are a lot of teams that would love to have a player of his caliber, but as usual the Braves find the gems and know how to treat them...

Derrick

Rany Jazayerli (Sports Journalist)
Andruw Jones is 25 years old. Think about that for a moment. He's four months older than Marlon Byrd, who's a great prospect even though he hasn't reached the majors yet. Jones has more than 3,000 at-bats, more than 150 homers. He has the best defensive numbers of any outfielder in major-league history, granted that he hasn't gone through a decline phase yet.

His OPS climbed every year from his rookie campaign through 2000. Sure, he had a bad year in 2001. I think he's allowed one of those. He has become a more disciplined hitter with age, although he's still a little too likely to swing at sliders down and away.

To answer the question: I think he has developed the way he was expected to, and if he hasn't, it's only because the expectations were unrealistic. He still has a lot of growth left in him; he's probably a year or two away from having his offensive performance catch up to his defense.


Gary Huckabay
Perhaps the expectations of the baseball world were unreasonable. Jones is just now turning 25, plays in a park that's not a hitters' paradise, and has logged 170+ career home runs. He's also one of the best defensive center fielders ever.

Jones's career path to date isn't entirely unlike that of Sammy Sosa. Sosa took longer to become good, then had a pretty lousy 1997 before becoming Sammy! in 1998. Both players struggled at times with the strike zone, and both are tools gods. I think Jones has that kind of explosive step forward ahead of him, and will render a question like this moot within 12 months.

So, yup, he's only 25, (oops, I missed it...he turned 25 in April), but still...25??? And he's doing what he's doing? And Bernie is 33 or 34? He's already reached his peak...while Andruw is just beginning. Get used to it.

YanksFan

I never said(and never will say) that Bernie is the best CF. But Jones isn't in the Top 5, maybe the top 10 but thats stretching it.


"Good parenting has instilled a sense of value. He's made mistakes, and he is grown up enough to admit them, take responsibility for them, and learn from them"-
Quit BS'ing. I put up the facts and now your dodging them.

"is Andruw Jones gets to balls that no one is baseball can get to and he makes it look easy"-Yet he has a lower Feilding % and twice as many errors as Williams!!!


Look at it from stats.
Andruw has...
More errors
lower fielding %
lower batting avg
lower OB %
lower slugging %

Than Bernie friggin Williams. Bernies not the best in baseball but is better statistically than Jones by ALOT!
Roughly 50 points higher in OBP
7 points better in SLG
Roughly 40 points better in batting avg.
1 point better in FPCT


So how is Jones better, don't give me "because bobby cox said so" or "he's only 24" He's been playing since 1995. Thats not a excuse, Vlad doesn't use that excuse, you know why? Because he puts up the numbers, he's not worried about the future, he's worried about this year. He's only 26 and is already in the top 5 in OF. Helluvalot better numbers than Jones and they came in the same season, explain that one?

You keep on saying that so and so says he's great, I don't care what a 60 year old player says.

Show me stats that say Jones is better than a guy like Bernie.
I'm waiting.

YanksFan

Put up facts! Not some no name fudgepacking sportswriters kissing butt editorials. Just facts, you can't. You said past 4 seasons. I put em up. Turned out that Jones had TWICE AS MANY ERRORS!!!!!! Face it, he's not the best. Convince me by showing numbers.


Again, I never said Bernie was the best, just that he is better than Jones. As are alot of Outfielders playing today, Jones is still overhyped, overrated, and overpaided, for his underproduction. All facts.

Derrick

OK, you want the facts..you have them smarta$$...

Past 4 seasons:
Andruw Jones:

Games played: 643 (161 per year)
Assists: 52 (13 per year)
Put-outs: 1799 (450 per year)


Past 4 seasons:
Bernie Williams:

Games played: 560 (140 per year)
Assists: 19 (4.75 per year)
Put-outs: 1384 (346 per year)

And, who were you saying was consistent again? Did you say Bernie Williams? Your obviously wrong as the numbers show. Now, Andruw has more Games played (more consistent), Assists, and Put-outs, not to mention, look at the AVERAGES...

And also, how about THIS season...2002...Andruw has 1 errors (which was a fluke error, should've been called a hit...I watched that game by the way, but whatever) and Andruw has a .995 fielding percentage while Bernie has 4 errors and a .977 fielding percentage...

Make sure you know ALL the facts before arguing your point...

weasel510

I AM THE BEST CENTERFIELDER EVER!!!! so stop arguing about them two.

YanksFan

We both already know Bernie doesn't play as much. Yes he has less put outs and assists.




You can't count a season thats NOT FINISHED~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets look at batting avg., # of errors, # of strikeouts, # of RBI's, and fielding percentages.

Your own logic goes against you
"The longer you play and the more games you rack up, the harder it is for a percentage to go up or down"

Jones has played more games than Williams the last four seasons. He has a lower fielding % and twice as many errors!!!

"And, who were you saying was consistent again? Did you say Bernie Williams? Your obviously wrong as the numbers show"

Look at the averages I put up. I didn't say ANYTHING about put outs or assists. Ohh, Jones has played in more games, had more put outs, and had more assists. BUT,

Look at it from stats.




Explain those.
OBP SLG AVG FPCT

A. Jones- .341 .490 .268 .988




You still haven't addressed that if he gets to the ball so often and makes it look so easy, how did he have TWICE as many errors??

Again, your dodging the facts, since I never put up anything about put outs or assists. But yet again, since Jones leads 2(yes only TWO) catogories(not including games played) he must be better. Let's just forget about that Andruw has...
More errors
lower fielding %
lower batting avg
lower OB %
lower slugging %

My a$$. He isn't close to being in the top 5. No where being the best ever. He was overhyped, overpaid and has underproducted. I listed overall facts(hitting, fielding) and he's not as good. You listed the only 2 catergories he leads. Again, lets forget about the 5(thats right FIVE) catergories that Bernie leads.