UPDATE!! Question regarding Ebay listings ....who will EBAY/PP rule in favor of?

craigger

if seller lists a group of cards for sale as a "LOT of 8" and has a picture that shows 9 cards, will EBAY/PP decide in favor of the buyer if he claims he thought he was getting all 9 of the cards in the picture? Listing title clearly says "lot of 8" and listing details clearly says "Photo shows (9) cards BUT ONLY THE BELOW (8) cards are included in this phenomenal lot".

Please let me know your thoughts...
Thanks

ndleo

I think buyer wins. They will argue that the listing was misleading. Did the listing list each of the cards included? I do that for lots, (even 100+ct lots) it is time consuming but the buyer can't say he didn't know what he was buying.

mrmopar

Based on what I read, I would side with the seller. Of course, I can only comment on the common sense portion and not how Ebay might rule. If the title and description clearly defines 8 cards that a bidder will receive and those 8 cards are listed/identified, then a 9th card unlisted/unidentified but shown should not be expected. HOWEVER...Why the hell is an extra card not included even shown?

Why not just remove the 1 card not included and take a new photo? This is carelessness &/or laziness.

I have done listings in the past, where I show a bunch of items in a single image or sometimes separate images, but clearly state the auction is for only the item listed and that anything else seen in this or additional photos is not included. This is very common and likely done mainly to get some free advertising for the other items. I have never personally tried to list multiple items in an image, but exclude just 1 though. That just seems odd and definitely invites confusion.

I assume this is a real situation and you are either the buyer or seller. Care to share the listing, as a real life example will also be easier to call when you can see all the facts clearly?

blurryface

why was the additional card even in the picture?

you'll win because the description was clear, but thats a not the point. why go thru the headache in the first place or open yourself up for a return or even have to listen to the "misleading" claims?

crop & markup features are abundant.

craigger

Ok, just to give some clarity to the situation and get some more feedback. Yes, i was the seller. I had a lot of (9) Fernando Tatis AUTO cards listed on EBAY and also had each card listed individually. One of the individual cards was purchased, and i immediately changed the LOT listing to represent that there were only (8) cards in it. YES, I PLANNED ON CHANGING THE PICTURE WHEN I GOT HOME FROM WORK. But, the lot was purchased before i got home so yes it did show 9 cards in the picture. I assumed that the buyer read either the TITLE or the DESCRIPTION.

Here is the TITLE for the lot:
"WOW!! 2017 Fernando Tatis Jr. Auto BGS 9.5/10 Lot (8) Leaf Metal / Valiant"

And here is the DETAILS directly from the listing:
"WOW!! Possibly the greatest lot of 2017 Fernando Tatis Jr. Auto BGS 9.5/10 cards ever put on EBAY!! EVERY card is graded BGS 9.5 and every AUTO is graded a 10!

Photo shows (9) cards BUT ONLY THE BELOW (8) cards are included in this phenomenal lot:
2017 Leaf Metal Draft BLUE #10/25
2017 Leaf Valiant GREEN #80/99
2017 Leaf Valiant ORANGE #7/25
2017 Leaf Valiant ORANGE #25/25
2017 Leaf Valiant ORANGE #13/25
2017 Leaf Valiant PURPLE #11/15
2017 Leaf Valiant YELLOW #7/10
2017 Leaf Valiant BLACK #5/5"

So the buyer basically said he didn't read the details and would like to return the cards. I even offered a fair partial refund for the card that was not included and he turned that down. My honest opinion, Tatis was HOT when he bought it, and has hit a little skid recently and he wants to return it.

so i plan on calling EBAY this am to understand more about the return process. I feel it definitely should atleast be his responsibility to pay for the shipping back across the country, which cost about $80 with insurance when i sent it UPS originally.

So again, anyone have any insight on how EBAY would rule something like this if i did not want to take the return back or of the buyer says he isn't paying for shipping?

steel75

The seller would lose this one because there is a "conflict" caused by the pictures and the description not matching.
Sure the buyer could have inquired about the "conflict", but it was the seller that created the confusion in the first place. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

craigger

thanks steel75...i agree, i am not looking to start an issue with the buyer, just looking for any insight....it's not worth the hassle

blurryface

lemme guess, the 5/5 was not included?

blurryface

and unless you elected 14 days returns w/ buyer pays return shipping AND that 14 days has passed, you will be forced to take the return AND pay for it. rightfully so, imo.

craigger

blurryface, incorrect. one of the greens was not included. And the listing was NO RETURNS

JoeBanzai

I would say the seller SHOULD be covered here.

In looking at your listing it's OBVIOUS you are selling 8 cards not 9. However, if buyer is having remorse, he/she is probably looking for a technicality to get out of the purchase. I buy and sell on ebay, and your listing does seem a little complex. Listing as a lot and individually at the same time has led to some confusion.

HOWEVER ebay seems to be ridiculously siding with buyers. I hope you don't have to pay the return shipping, but be prepared to take that hit.

Take the return and relist items.

craigger

thanks JoeBanzia....thats what i will do...the buyer is paying the shipping. i truly believe he is doing it because Tatis has cooled off....nobody buys a listing becasue of the pic without reading the title or description...

blurryface

@craigger said:
blurryface, incorrect. one of the greens was not included. And the listing was NO RETURNS

your 2nd mistake is thinking "no returns" means just that on ebay. your first was picturing similar and additional items in your listing.

and yes, he's cooled off and the flipper can't flip. that's precisely why he's returning them. and your mistakes are why he will be allowed to do that. not being mean. trying to help you here. don't give them a single reason. that's the point.

craigger

So i have allowed the buyer to pay shipping and return the cards. He has since sent me multiple apology emails because his plan was to resell the cards and got scared because he made such a large purchase and got very nervous. He knew he was getting 8 cards the whole time and kind of screwed me!

blurryface

how much was the sale for? you realize you will be only getting 97% refund, correct? plus your $80 shipping?

i would be asking for all that back.

RufussCkingston

You should have just let eBay decide. Not sure if you were afraid of a negative feedback. eBay would have probably issued a $4 first class label for the return. So not sure what you saved by giving in.

I understand why you had the extra card in there and don’t fault you. Does drive me nuts though how many listings I see with multiple items In the pics and says in text only for what is in title. Worse is when there are multiples of the same item and it’s only for one and one of them is in bad shape.

JoeBanzai

@craigger said:
So i have allowed the buyer to pay shipping and return the cards. He has since sent me multiple apology emails because his plan was to resell the cards and got scared because he made such a large purchase and got very nervous. He knew he was getting 8 cards the whole time and kind of screwed me!

This worked out very well IMO.

Buyer paid for return shipping, and apologized, two things he might not have had to do.

I always cross my fingers when I sell on ebay, it has become a buyer site.

ndleo

@JoeBanzai said:

@craigger said:
So i have allowed the buyer to pay shipping and return the cards. He has since sent me multiple apology emails because his plan was to resell the cards and got scared because he made such a large purchase and got very nervous. He knew he was getting 8 cards the whole time and kind of screwed me!

This worked out very well IMO.

Buyer paid for return shipping, and apologized, two things he might not have had to do.

I always cross my fingers when I sell on ebay, it has become a buyer site.

Yup. I stopped selling anything $500+ myself. I use one of the big consignors or sell it here directly.

JoeBanzai

@ndleo said:

Yup. I stopped selling anything $500+ myself. I use one of the big consignors or sell it here directly.

I think that was a wise decision.

ndleo

@JoeBanzai said:

@ndleo said:

Yup. I stopped selling anything $500+ myself. I use one of the big consignors or sell it here directly.

I think that was a wise decision.

I sold a BIN $1400 box to a 0 bidder with only one negative feedback 3 years ago. I sent him an email to try to confirm the order and he sounds like a newbie. I cried myself to sleep for a few nights until he received it and left good feedback.

That was it for me. There is no way to block those types of bidders, Brent or Rick can deal with it.

mrmopar

@ndleo said:

@JoeBanzai said:

@ndleo said:

Yup. I stopped selling anything $500+ myself. I use one of the big consignors or sell it here directly.

I think that was a wise decision.

I sold a BIN $1400 box to a 0 bidder with only one negative feedback 3 years ago. I sent him an email to try to confirm the order and he sounds like a newbie. I cried myself to sleep for a few nights until he received it and left good feedback.

That was it for me. There is no way to block those types of bidders, Brent or Rick can deal with it.

I think you do have the option to block bidders without a minimum number of feedback. The problem there is everyone has to start at zero and most are probably good people and are just starting out. As with anything in life, there will be some bad apples in the batch though.

I sold an old computer and some reel to reel tapes recently and all i could think of was someone trying to return them for whatever reason. This is not my area of expertise and I don't know that market. I always look at the feedback someone gives out when they bid and/or win anything I am selling. If there is anything negative, I make sure I address that issue or I confront them and try to find out what went wrong. I have not done it yet, but I would even be willing to cancel bids and block a bidder if I felt they were going to be a problem based on their feedback.

I also sold a reel to reel player and thankfully, the buyer only wanted the speakers. Paid full price and the speakers are in route. Hoping this ends well too, but they were in Canada so it is taking the global shipping route and taking forever. That leaves me the machine itself that I can either try to resell or donate/trash. I was fearing having to ship the damn thing as it weighed 55 pounds!

sayheywyo

Agree eBay is a buyers market and they will almost always side with a buyer on a return. Here's a good one: Sold a 2012 Prizm Damian Lillard PSA 10 on August 18 for best offer of $2500, buyer received August 19, buyer requested return (item not as described) August 24. You could of purchased the Lillard card for $1500 as buy it now on August 24. Nevertheless, the buyer said the color was off and PSA makes mistakes when grading and card was not described correctly. EBay said to refund, I did nothing..... card was delivered to me September 12 (I evacuated for over 2 weeks for Hurricane Laura in Lake Charles, LA) and surprise.... I received a PSA 9 Lillard as a return. Ebay has closed the case and it is in PayPal hands. I've sent this info to PayPal and it's pending. On top of this my credit card was compromised somewhere along the way and I was late paying eBay seller fees and PSA poppage from March submission. I paid PSA and eBay with a one time payment with a different credit card..... I have not updated either account with new payment info. I think I just traded a PSA 10 for a PSA 9 and paid fees to boot. Very doubtful I will ever sell on eBay again......

craigger

thats awful, sorry to hear. i was very nervous waiting for my Tatis lot to return thinking something similar may happen but my same cards returned.....i plan to sell them individually going forward

BuckHunter68

@sayheywyo said:
Agree eBay is a buyers market and they will almost always side with a buyer on a return. Here's a good one: Sold a 2012 Prizm Damian Lillard PSA 10 on August 18 for best offer of $2500, buyer received August 19, buyer requested return (item not as described) August 24. You could of purchased the Lillard card for $1500 as buy it now on August 24. Nevertheless, the buyer said the color was off and PSA makes mistakes when grading and card was not described correctly. EBay said to refund, I did nothing..... card was delivered to me September 12 (I evacuated for over 2 weeks for Hurricane Laura in Lake Charles, LA) and surprise.... I received a PSA 9 Lillard as a return. Ebay has closed the case and it is in PayPal hands. I've sent this info to PayPal and it's pending. On top of this my credit card was compromised somewhere along the way and I was late paying eBay seller fees and PSA poppage from March submission. I paid PSA and eBay with a one time payment with a different credit card..... I have not updated either account with new payment info. I think I just traded a PSA 10 for a PSA 9 and paid fees to boot. Very doubtful I will ever sell on eBay again......

Terrifying. That's a bad week, right there. Glad you're safe enough to be telling it.
Truthfully, you handled this much better than I would.
Curious, where did the buyer live?
You might share his ID so folks can block him.

dictoresno

I only list what's included in the lot and shown in the pictures. im meticulous with my scans and descriptions and try to leave no room for mistakes or misconceptions.

I cringe when I see ebay sellers selling single cards (properly listed as such) but with a lazy group photo. in your case, if you were gonna single sell one of the 9, it should've been listed by itself. ive broken up lots before, and combined singles into a lot to accommodate a buyer. but I ended the listings every time, made new pics and descriptions, then relisted. given how ebay is favoring the buyers mostly, you as a seller can't leave yourself exposed by creating shortcutted, lazy listings. always have your pictures match your descriptions. this includes never using stock photos.

RufussCkingston

@sayheywyo said:
Agree eBay is a buyers market and they will almost always side with a buyer on a return. Here's a good one: Sold a 2012 Prizm Damian Lillard PSA 10 on August 18 for best offer of $2500, buyer received August 19, buyer requested return (item not as described) August 24. You could of purchased the Lillard card for $1500 as buy it now on August 24. Nevertheless, the buyer said the color was off and PSA makes mistakes when grading and card was not described correctly. EBay said to refund, I did nothing..... card was delivered to me September 12 (I evacuated for over 2 weeks for Hurricane Laura in Lake Charles, LA) and surprise.... I received a PSA 9 Lillard as a return. Ebay has closed the case and it is in PayPal hands. I've sent this info to PayPal and it's pending. On top of this my credit card was compromised somewhere along the way and I was late paying eBay seller fees and PSA poppage from March submission. I paid PSA and eBay with a one time payment with a different credit card..... I have not updated either account with new payment info. I think I just traded a PSA 10 for a PSA 9 and paid fees to boot. Very doubtful I will ever sell on eBay again......

Wait, you say the eBay case is closed and you are dealing with PayPal, but why? What did eBay say when you called them and said that you got bamboozled on the return?

swish54

@RufussCkingston said:

@sayheywyo said:
Agree eBay is a buyers market and they will almost always side with a buyer on a return. Here's a good one: Sold a 2012 Prizm Damian Lillard PSA 10 on August 18 for best offer of $2500, buyer received August 19, buyer requested return (item not as described) August 24. You could of purchased the Lillard card for $1500 as buy it now on August 24. Nevertheless, the buyer said the color was off and PSA makes mistakes when grading and card was not described correctly. EBay said to refund, I did nothing..... card was delivered to me September 12 (I evacuated for over 2 weeks for Hurricane Laura in Lake Charles, LA) and surprise.... I received a PSA 9 Lillard as a return. Ebay has closed the case and it is in PayPal hands. I've sent this info to PayPal and it's pending. On top of this my credit card was compromised somewhere along the way and I was late paying eBay seller fees and PSA poppage from March submission. I paid PSA and eBay with a one time payment with a different credit card..... I have not updated either account with new payment info. I think I just traded a PSA 10 for a PSA 9 and paid fees to boot. Very doubtful I will ever sell on eBay again......

Wait, you say the eBay case is closed and you are dealing with PayPal, but why? What did eBay say when you called them and said that you got bamboozled on the return?

"Bend over and act like you like it and when you're done, go pound sand."

blurryface

you will win with paypal but you will have to file a police report claiming fraud. but look at the good news, you'll get your $2500, not $1500 or even $1200 that it's worth now.

PROMETHIUS88

I don't know how Ebay would allow you to be selling the same cards in two separate listings. I get what you are doing and don't take this personally, but if I saw that in a sellers listings, I would find it pretty shady. I'm glad you both came to a mutual agreement and things worked out in the end. Just not something I would do as a seller.

sayheywyo

EBay closed my case without any refund to buyer. But, case was opened by a third party payment provider for another one of their buyer protection programs meaning the buyer asked their financial institution to reverse the transaction plus a $20 chargeback fee. Have not talked to a real person... only providing info with 4g on phone as internet service has not been restored. Seems like PayPal is on my side but I have very little confidence this will work out favorable. Police report?? Lake Charles or Tampa? Doesn't seem worth it. I only paid $40 for the PSA 10 Lilliard a few years ago so I was just capitalizing on the crazy market thinking 50x the money was a must sell. It did rub me wrong that the buyer requested the return after possessing the card for 6 days and the value dropped $1000 and of course getting a PSA 9 as the return. But, I'm alive, evacuated to my niece's house and got to spend some family time and beach time in Destin, Fl. I'll survive no matter the outcome of this situation.

RufussCkingston

@sayheywyo said:
Have not talked to a real person... only providing info with 4g on phone as internet service has not been restored.

For what is at stake, regardless of what you once paid, you need to give eBay a call. It’s a free call even. It’s better to fully utilize the eBay side of a dispute before moving on to PayPal.