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Will US Banknotes hold Collector Value after moving to Digital Currency?

I'm curious to hear thoughts on whether US banknotes, such as the lowly dollar ($1 bill) will hold any collector value, like "Confederate Notes" did, or will they just become worthless completely?

It's OK if you disagree that the US will move to a digital currency or be removed from its status as the world's "Reserve currency." I'm open to hearing other opinions, but I have more insight and connections that lead me to believe the dollar is done and was being planned for more than a decade to be retired.

My main curiosity is in whether the $1 bill might be more valuable after it's no longer legal tender (for collector value) or better to just use it as a dollar now, before it becomes worthless.

Thanks all for input and ideas!

Comments

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 5,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    would someone give me the exact year, time, and date this is supposed to happen cause the last time I looked paper money and metal coins are what people in the real world use

  • @silverpop said:
    would someone give me the exact year, time, and date this is supposed to happen cause the last time I looked paper money and metal coins are what people in the real world use

    About 10 years ago, I told people it would likely happen in "our lifetime". About 5 years ago, I predicted that it would happen within 5-10 years. And now, in light of 2020 revelations, I'm betting it will happen between 2021-2024 (when FedCoin is slated to go live). Cryptocurrency paved the way for digital currency, and just because we've used paper+coins for as long as one can remember, doesn't mean it will always be.

    Side note: people also mocked me back in 2007 when I urged everyone to sell their houses because of a coming housing crash (which had never happened before). We all know how that went, and I profited handsomely from my foresight. ;) Just saying.

  • @silverpop said:
    would someone give me the exact year, time, and date this is supposed to happen

    Plus, this is like asking for the time that Christ will return, if you believe in such things. Nobody is supposed to know "when" but they do believe it will happen. In this case, though, there are those (the Satanic Elite) who DO know the exact time and date they will pull that trigger, but it's not for the peasants to know. :)

  • mbwizkidmbwizkid Posts: 664 ✭✭✭✭

    @puravida said:

    @silverpop said:
    would someone give me the exact year, time, and date this is supposed to happen cause the last time I looked paper money and metal coins are what people in the real world use

    About 10 years ago, I told people it would likely happen in "our lifetime". About 5 years ago, I predicted that it would happen within 5-10 years. And now, in light of 2020 revelations, I'm betting it will happen between 2021-2024 (when FedCoin is slated to go live). Cryptocurrency paved the way for digital currency, and just because we've used paper+coins for as long as one can remember, doesn't mean it will always be.

    Side note: people also mocked me back in 2007 when I urged everyone to sell their houses because of a coming housing crash (which had never happened before). We all know how that went, and I profited handsomely from my foresight. ;) Just saying.

    I do not agree with your money timeline of 2021-2024, and was your “home prices” prediction in 2007 documented, because I don’t believe that either. Anyone can say they predicted that.

    AKA - Steve in Tampa

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 5,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    good idea but one issue the timing is seriously bad and for something that complex to work right one has to make sure the timing is just right and there is a demand for such an idea

    as it stands there are more important things to worry about than what kind of money people use in their everyday life, this virus has eaten up huge amounts of time, effort and funds, right now people are just trying to keep safe, making a living and feed their families

    the demand is health and safety right now for all, govts are trying to fight this virus spending millions of dollars doing it and getting very little success, this is minor to them now not worth the time or funds

  • puravidapuravida Posts: 14
    edited September 9, 2020 2:48PM

    @mbwizkid said:

    I do not agree with your money timeline of 2021-2024

    It's OK to disagree. I didn't post here to convince you of anything. That said, my predictions have always been on-point, so it will likely be your loss; which is not my problem or concern. :pensive:

    and was your “home prices” prediction in 2007 documented, because I don’t believe that either. Anyone can say they predicted that.

    Actually, yes. I have many witnesses to my prediction, and I even blogged about it from 2006 and more in 2007. Plus, I have records of selling my properties for profit and buying more after the crash for pennies on the dollar.

    However, again, I didn't come here to argue or prove anything. It seems you have an argumentative attitude and are welcome to believe whatever makes you feel good.

    When I asked for ideas and such, it's not the same as inviting attacks. Funny way to treat new members!

    You feel threatened by my insight and must tear me down, but it won't work. I don't take well to bullies or bullying. I tend to ignore.

    All others interested in genuine discussion and friendly debate (without attacks) are welcome! :)

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2020 3:03PM

    Is this digital currency like that Bitcoin stuff?
    "Cryptocurrency exchange Binance has confirmed a “large scale” data breach, in which hackers stole more than $40 million in cryptocurrency"
    "Hackers are stealing millions in Bitcoin — and living like big shots"

    Can't wait for it!

  • puravidapuravida Posts: 14
    edited September 9, 2020 3:39PM

    @AlexinPA said:
    Is this digital currency like that Bitcoin stuff?

    Yes. The FEDCoin will be like that AND run by the government. So it's a recipe for disaster and full control over what one does with their money.

    About the hack you cited, $40 mln is a drop in the bucket. There have been BILLIONS stolen in cryptocurrencies, but that's a much bigger discussion, because I still believe that some form of digital currency will be the future.

    That said, I am certainly NOT looking forward to any government sponsored or approved digital currency.

    Imagine they can steal trillions in value AND completely control it all. Scary thought.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2020 4:59PM

    The presumption that FedCoin will be instituted is the leap of faith. I don't see any compelling evidence to make me think that this will happen, but it certainly not impossible.

    But to answer the question posed towards the end of your post-spend it.

    There are so many dollar notes in existence that they will likely never be worth more face value as collectibles, if devalued. Spend the $100s first, then the $50s, etc. CSA notes took over a century to be worth more than face as collectibles, many $50s and $100 (and some smaller denominations) still are worth less than face, and there are far more FRNs around. Imagine that-buying silver certificates and U.S. notes below face-but that would take a demonetization of the dollar and that's something that our government has never done.

    That's why most are skeptical that it will happen.

    Why do you think that we're going digital so soon? Probably a greater chance that it could happen eventually, but I don't see Congress doing this and under our Constitution, I think that they would have to change the law.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • puravidapuravida Posts: 14
    edited September 9, 2020 6:34PM

    @sellitstore said:
    CSA notes took over a century to be worth more than face as collectibles.

    That is a good and valid point. I had not thought about the long time that passed before they regained some value. It is unlikely for something to become collectible quickly, so that makes a lot of sense.

    Why do you think that we're going digital so soon? Probably a greater chance that it could happen eventually, but I don't see Congress doing this and under our Constitution, I think that they would have to change the law.

    This is a much bigger discussion, but in short: My background is consulting in finance, security to banker's banks, the FED, and major international corporations. I have a bit of unique perspective.

    Of late, I have spent the last 5 years investing in cryptocurrencies and building out solutions to make it possible to use them in the real world (sort of touching on silverpop's comment that people use paper+coin nowadays).

    There is a massive push to digital currency, because a centralized version of it allows the "powers that be" to track and control everything we do with money. No more socking it away under the mattress and easy to take it all away from those who disagree with the Elite or disobey them.

    On the flipside, a decentralized cryptocurrency "could" (if done right, developed by altruistic people, and defended by the people) support commerce and trade without fear of oppression, coercion, tyranny, etc. Sorry but that's the shortest I could put it. Lol

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020 4:34AM

    Thank you for sharing your perspective and for doing so in such a concise and informative manner. Your security background gives you a unique and credible perspective, and security could be a reason for moving towards a digital currency.

    It's the "powers that be" part about which I'm more optimistic. Americans don't want to give up their cash as easily as some others have. They like that element of secrecy. And, at least for now, we're still a democracy run by the people. Dictatorships seek total control of the people, democracies don't.

    That doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong. You could be right and I appreciate hearing your thoughts.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 6,880 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sweden has attempted to go cashless for awhile now and cash has a low percentage of transactions there, in contrast in Germany cash is still preferred and digital usage is very low. A big change I noticed in 10 years was in China, when I was there in 2006 cash was king. Two years ago most every transaction was on a WeChat based app like Applepay. This was an issue for me as I had an older iPhone and couldn't load WeChat on my phone. I did encounter lots of vending machines that only took digital payment.

    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016
  • mbwizkidmbwizkid Posts: 664 ✭✭✭✭

    @puravida said:

    @mbwizkid said:

    I do not agree with your money timeline of 2021-2024

    It's OK to disagree. I didn't post here to convince you of anything. That said, my predictions have always been on-point, so it will likely be your loss; which is not my problem or concern. :pensive:

    and was your “home prices” prediction in 2007 documented, because I don’t believe that either. Anyone can say they predicted that.

    Actually, yes. I have many witnesses to my prediction, and I even blogged about it from 2006 and more in 2007. Plus, I have records of selling my properties for profit and buying more after the crash for pennies on the dollar.

    However, again, I didn't come here to argue or prove anything. It seems you have an argumentative attitude and are welcome to believe whatever makes you feel good.

    When I asked for ideas and such, it's not the same as inviting attacks. Funny way to treat new members!

    That was my knee jerk reaction to your Nostradamus-like claim to your side note. I would’ve asked that of veterans & newbies alike. It was not meant as an attack. I’ve always tried to play by age old forum rule of, attack the post, never the poster.

    AKA - Steve in Tampa

  • @mbwizkid said:
    That was my knee jerk reaction to your Nostradamus-like claim to your side note. I would’ve asked that of veterans & newbies alike. It was not meant as an attack. I’ve always tried to play by age old forum rule of, attack the post, never the poster.

    Fair enough. :wink:

  • puravidapuravida Posts: 14
    edited September 10, 2020 2:25PM

    @sellitstore said:
    It's the "powers that be" part about which I'm more optimistic. Americans don't want to give up their cash as easily as some others have. They like that element of secrecy. And, at least for now, we're still a democracy run by the people. Dictatorships seek total control of the people, democracies don't.

    That doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong. You could be right and I appreciate hearing your thoughts.

    I actually think you are right about this, but I'm not suggesting that this will be a voluntary switch. I believe that the lack of adoption in Sweden and elsewhere is one specific reason why they will simply mandate it (or more likely give a reason like Coronavirus).

    I don't believe, for one second, that there is a shortage of coins right now, due to people "hoarding" them. They are purposely keeping coins out of circulation. And, during the upcoming Winter "second wave" of Coronavirus, they will push the narrative of "Be afraid! Be very afraid! And stop using paper money, because it spreads the virus!" That is a crock, but many will believe it and begin to adopt more widespread debit card and credit card use, just in case. That's my opinion, anyway.

  • puravidapuravida Posts: 14
    edited September 10, 2020 2:26PM

    @SaorAlba said:
    Sweden has attempted to go cashless for awhile now and cash has a low percentage of transactions there, in contrast in Germany cash is still preferred and digital usage is very low. A big change I noticed in 10 years was in China, when I was there in 2006 cash was king. Two years ago most every transaction was on a WeChat based app like Applepay. This was an issue for me as I had an older iPhone and couldn't load WeChat on my phone. I did encounter lots of vending machines that only took digital payment.

    Also spot on with your observation. You are right, but see my prior comment about it becoming mandatory (if strongly recommending against doesn't work --using the virus as a cover story).

    I also believe that a smartphone will become required (a $1,200 every 2 year plus $100/mo tax basically). Without it, life is already becoming difficult. I believe that by end of 2020, it will be nearly impossible to do anything without one --travel, buy necessities, hold a job, keep kids in school, etc etc. We have been made to pay for our own surveillance equipment for over a decade, and now it's going to become mandatory --at our expense (but hey, it's convenient and has a nice camera! :open_mouth:).

    Side Note: Ever since I deleted my Facebook account, I've had serious issues dealing with financial institutions. This is not by coincidence. The government has a "social score" on everyone (just like China admitted). If you don't have one, it affects your overall "creditworthiness" in their eyes. The same will come for those, like me, who refuse to carry a smartphone everywhere.

    Again, in my opinion. :smile:

  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭
  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020 8:26AM

    @puravida- Everything that you predict is possible but unlikely in a democracy. Yes, China can proclaim this and make it happen but in the U.S. changing the laws that have been on the books for 200+ years will be the minimum necessary. Maybe this change would even require an amendment to the Constitution? (Constitution law isn't my area of expertise.)

    Facebook-never a member and never a credit problem, although I do know a landlord that uses it to screen tenants. I don't believe that the lack of a Facebook page hurts anyone in any way. Information on a Facebook page CAN hurt you but lack of a page? No.

    Smartphones are most useful for people who have children or bosses and I have neither, so my flip phone works fine for emergencies. As long as our money still proclaims "This note is legal tender for all debts public and private.", I'll continue to use them. And my credit card is lighter and smaller than a phone and I don't need to recharge the battery every day or worry about dropping it on the pavement or in the water. Are smartphones really a better way to pay?

    "I don't believe, for one second, that there is a shortage of coins right now, due to people "hoarding" them."

    The reason is not hoarding. It's a slowdown in commerce. Banks get a significant portion of their coinage needs from commercial deposits and these slowed greatly. Their needs also decreased but as businesses reopen, there aren't enough coins in circulation. People have accumulated coins because they aren't shopping and spending them as usual. It's not a real problem around here and I suspect will disappear soon. I offered my $310 in rolled coins to the head cashier at Adams, our local supermarket, and they told me that they have plenty coming in from customers now. A temporary, minor problem- no conspiracy here. And it's a bit late now to claim coronavirus is spread through currency-already debated and researched. While there is some risk in handling currency, it's no different than other potentially contaminated surfaces. Currency has always been "dirty". Wash your hands after handling it and you'll be fine. Antiviral and antibacterial paper or coatings may help a lot. I'll bet that Crane & Co. is researching this now.

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I see the possibility of a Federal cryptocurrency but not enough evidence yet to convince me that this will happen over the next few years. Thanks again for sharing your perspective.

    Know and evaluate your sources. If @Staircoins recommends an article and @tomtomtomtom likes it, I'm reading it now. Both are good and trustworthy voices.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just read the Forbes article linked above.

    Well written and presents the other side of the coin (or note).

    Our currency is already largely digital. Only about 10% of dollars exist as cash. All large transactions are digital and cash is used for smaller transactions. Block chain is what's new in digital and a strong argument is made in this article why it's not better, but worse than what has evolved in the U.S. over 200 years. The dollar has gone from gold backed to 90% digital and survived a very long time without being demonetized.

    With about $20 trillion "out there", printing $4 trillion more won't kill the dollar but it should devalue it a bit. Printing $200 trillion more and adding more zeros after that is what makes a currency worthless. We've managed the money supply well enough so far, let's hope that a responsible Fed continues to manage the economy well. Deficits matter.

    I'm now convinced that a move towards block chain technology for currency is a bad thing but that doesn't mean that it couldn't happen. Let's watch a few other countries try it first.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • synchrsynchr Posts: 959 ✭✭✭

    My financial advisor claimed that cryptocurrency is getting a huge boost by the marijuana industry .
    Now Paypal has declared they are in cryptocurrency

    https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/cryptocurrencies-tnc

  • justboredjustbored Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November 16, 2020 7:48PM

    @AlexinPA said:
    Is this digital currency like that Bitcoin stuff?
    "Cryptocurrency exchange Binance has confirmed a “large scale” data breach, in which hackers stole more than $40 million in cryptocurrency"
    "Hackers are stealing millions in Bitcoin — and living like big shots"

    Can't wait for it!

    Just popping in to correct something. Binance wasn't hacked in the situation youre referring to. Some users using API keys were dumb enough to get phished by a spoof website at the top of Google (an ad), can't save people from themselves. Funds are SAFU. Nobody but new folks use centralized exchanges anymore anyway.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps you have noticed the new digital currency fund TV ad by Greyscale. They picture all sorts of currency, metallic and paper, while the voice over states "while they say goodbye to value, and print unlimited amounts of currency....".

    This is where a small inaccuracy is inserted to make digital currency seem more appealing, by making traditional seem less appealing.

    Nobody is printing unlimited amounts of currency. Indeed we have learned that when we approach this behavior by printing too much currency, the system quickly collapses. That's why the U.S. has avoided doing this for over 150 years and why our legal tender notes issued in 1862 and everything issued since then, remains valid, negotiable currency. Hey-Ho, Let's go. (Ramones)

    https://twitter.com/grayscale/status/1292808728253784065?lang=en

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • I hope nobody here is buying BTC or Ethereum through Grayscale. Im not sure what the current ratio is but there have been times this year where the price on that fund is about 2x the value of what they hold. Just get a Coinbase account and don't get ripped off by Greyscale. Wall Street is way behind on this stuff anyway. I sat through a Wall Street Blockchain Alliance zoom call last week and was shocked at how out of touch some of that group is.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The fact that proponents of cyber currency aren't on the same page isn't reassuring. It doesn't really matter if this is due to ignorance or a genuine difference in opinion. I'm still not convinced, but keeping an open mind.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • air4mdcair4mdc Posts: 588 ✭✭✭✭

    In reference to the coin shortages I know for a fact all day long prior to the pandemic there would be endless customers coming into banks and cashing in coffee cans of coins. This has gone on for years. Since last April or so all bank lobbies are closed and no one can cash in there coins. I wonder if this is a contributor?

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