Thanks for the eSylum link Rick, interesting article about the man. I also hope (hint!) that CRO will post an article about the collection after the sale.
@cameonut2011 said:
I agree with the coins matter more than the plastic, but given the PCGS premium is typically greater for many of these than average it does raise eyebrows. It makes you wonder if he was hoping to take advantage of grading that is a bit more liberal. If he doesn't submit these to CAC either, I'd bet this is the strategy.
When was the last time you submitted coins to NGC? How do you know that that service is grading liberally now? My experience with my last two submissions doesn't give me that impression. I understand that some of the market is firmly entrenched in thinking that one brand brings a higher price, which then helps that very thing to occur as a result of pressuring the market.
Earlier this year. And it doesn't matter whether NGC is tight now or not when it has a long history of grading coins like this more liberally. How do you discern between new submissions and a reholder of an older coin? I know dealers that have used that and any putative tightening to their advantage.
Both firms have history's of grading that has fluctuated, that is why the market has long considered OGH, and rattler holders as almost automatic upgrade contenders. And both firms while more alike than dissimilar have slightly different criterial when grading. So its easy for someone that is devoted to one brand to make disparaging statements about the competition even if the opposite may be true. Yourself and others like Gazes like to constantly bring up the issue of price disparity, it is quite possible that that disparity exists because savvy dealers know that they can charge more for one brand because of collectors that are devoted to one brand rather than any grading issue.
At any rate this thread has been taken off course by a few that wish to bash and condemn someone for not doing what they would have done with regard to the choice of TPG. So lets get off this plastic rant and focus and discuss on what really matters the coins in this marvelous collection. After all this is a coin forum not a plastic forum.
I have to laugh that you say "others" have taken this thread off course. A couple of people posted their thoughts (ie that they are building pcgs registry sets and the coins may be hard to cross and mentioning they were surprised it was an all NGC collection) that were legitmate observations.
You took the thread off course when you then posted "what a sad commentary on the hobby many (sic) more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic."
@cameonut2011 said:
I agree with the coins matter more than the plastic, but given the PCGS premium is typically greater for many of these than average it does raise eyebrows. It makes you wonder if he was hoping to take advantage of grading that is a bit more liberal. If he doesn't submit these to CAC either, I'd bet this is the strategy.
When was the last time you submitted coins to NGC? How do you know that that service is grading liberally now? My experience with my last two submissions doesn't give me that impression. I understand that some of the market is firmly entrenched in thinking that one brand brings a higher price, which then helps that very thing to occur as a result of pressuring the market.
Earlier this year. And it doesn't matter whether NGC is tight now or not when it has a long history of grading coins like this more liberally. How do you discern between new submissions and a reholder of an older coin? I know dealers that have used that and any putative tightening to their advantage.
Both firms have history's of grading that has fluctuated, that is why the market has long considered OGH, and rattler holders as almost automatic upgrade contenders. And both firms while more alike than dissimilar have slightly different criterial when grading. So its easy for someone that is devoted to one brand to make disparaging statements about the competition even if the opposite may be true. Yourself and others like Gazes like to constantly bring up the issue of price disparity, it is quite possible that that disparity exists because savvy dealers know that they can charge more for one brand because of collectors that are devoted to one brand rather than any grading issue.
At any rate this thread has been taken off course by a few that wish to bash and condemn someone for not doing what they would have done with regard to the choice of TPG. So lets get off this plastic rant and focus and discuss on what really matters the coins in this marvelous collection. After all this is a coin forum not a plastic forum.
I'm all for the coin being paramount to the plastic; however, the reality is the larger market is not. When someone is potentially leaving money on the table, it raises a lot of questions. For many series, the differences in grading between PCGS and NGC are minimal. For others, it is not.
@coinbuf said:
What a sad commentary on the hobby many of the replies in this thread are, so many more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic.
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
This Patrick cat has some amazing coins.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
@coinbuf said:
What a sad commentary on the hobby many of the replies in this thread are, so many more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic.
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
This Patrick cat has some amazing coins.
i would agree with this if it weren't for corrosion, pvc, cabinet friction, fingerprints etc. some amazing coins have taken unnecessary damage/contact due to lack of proper storage and the inert holders they make now for the whole of the hobby and preservation is really a good idea.
i personally would love nothing more than to educate myself in counterfeit detection, altered coins, putty etc and the other 100 ways people have tried to trick others (i don't count dipping/rinsing or acetoning properly into these categories) and having coins in 2x2 or rolls or the like. there is just a certain amount of coins that need be preserved somehow. life events, heirs, tornados, fires, robberies, etc after a certain amount of decades/centuries will take its toll. not the end of the world of course but a basic level of long-term preservation needs to be in place for our collectables.
for preservation/value (and value does matter), authentication etc some type of professional secure holder is required and sure we take some of the obnoxious things along with the good, as is life. a fair amount of seemingly low-dollar coins out there that would normally not matter until a studied person comes along and discovers a new marriage/rpm/ddo etc. so i say, slab em all !! ok maybe not all.
disclosure, i am not pandering for the TPG, really!!!
Not saying slabs are not good, they are and for many of the reasons you list above.
Its just ridiculous that collectors limit themselves to only one tpg, only certain slab generations, only coins with stickers etc. To each their own I guess. If I like a coin I buy it period. I don't care what holder it resides in.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
@kiyote I am not near my library at the present time but I just started reading an article in the Journal of Early American Numismatics (JEAN, published by the ANS) about the Massa (sic) pine tree copper, which apparently is related to the holed Indian you mention since it features a picture of the holed Indian coin. Unfortunately, when I say "Just started" I mean I have read the first paragraph and looked at a few of the pictures so I cannot answer your question. But perhaps you'd find the article interesting. I forget the precise issue but it is the one with Dave Bowers' take on John Ford as the lead article.
@coinbuf said:
What a sad commentary on the hobby many of the replies in this thread are, so many more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic.
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
This Patrick cat has some amazing coins.
Who is Patrick?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
@coinbuf said:
What a sad commentary on the hobby many of the replies in this thread are, so many more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic.
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
@coinbuf said:
What a sad commentary on the hobby many of the replies in this thread are, so many more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic.
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
@coinbuf said:
What a sad commentary on the hobby many of the replies in this thread are, so many more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic.
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
@coinbuf said:
What a sad commentary on the hobby many of the replies in this thread are, so many more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic.
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
Comments
Thanks for the eSylum link Rick, interesting article about the man. I also hope (hint!) that CRO will post an article about the collection after the sale.
I have to laugh that you say "others" have taken this thread off course. A couple of people posted their thoughts (ie that they are building pcgs registry sets and the coins may be hard to cross and mentioning they were surprised it was an all NGC collection) that were legitmate observations.
You took the thread off course when you then posted "what a sad commentary on the hobby many (sic) more worried about the plastic than what is in the plastic."
I'm all for the coin being paramount to the plastic; however, the reality is the larger market is not. When someone is potentially leaving money on the table, it raises a lot of questions. For many series, the differences in grading between PCGS and NGC are minimal. For others, it is not.
I’m not in front of a red book right now but I wonder whatever happened to that holed “Indian on Globe” Copper? I think it was unique
Once upon a time we collected coins. Today many collect holders and even silly little stickers that go on them. Crazy world
This Patrick cat has some amazing coins.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
i would agree with this if it weren't for corrosion, pvc, cabinet friction, fingerprints etc. some amazing coins have taken unnecessary damage/contact due to lack of proper storage and the inert holders they make now for the whole of the hobby and preservation is really a good idea.
i personally would love nothing more than to educate myself in counterfeit detection, altered coins, putty etc and the other 100 ways people have tried to trick others (i don't count dipping/rinsing or acetoning properly into these categories) and having coins in 2x2 or rolls or the like. there is just a certain amount of coins that need be preserved somehow. life events, heirs, tornados, fires, robberies, etc after a certain amount of decades/centuries will take its toll. not the end of the world of course but a basic level of long-term preservation needs to be in place for our collectables.
for preservation/value (and value does matter), authentication etc some type of professional secure holder is required and sure we take some of the obnoxious things along with the good, as is life. a fair amount of seemingly low-dollar coins out there that would normally not matter until a studied person comes along and discovers a new marriage/rpm/ddo etc. so i say, slab em all !! ok maybe not all.
disclosure, i am not pandering for the TPG, really!!!
Not saying slabs are not good, they are and for many of the reasons you list above.
Its just ridiculous that collectors limit themselves to only one tpg, only certain slab generations, only coins with stickers etc. To each their own I guess. If I like a coin I buy it period. I don't care what holder it resides in.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
@kiyote I am not near my library at the present time but I just started reading an article in the Journal of Early American Numismatics (JEAN, published by the ANS) about the Massa (sic) pine tree copper, which apparently is related to the holed Indian you mention since it features a picture of the holed Indian coin. Unfortunately, when I say "Just started" I mean I have read the first paragraph and looked at a few of the pictures so I cannot answer your question. But perhaps you'd find the article interesting. I forget the precise issue but it is the one with Dave Bowers' take on John Ford as the lead article.
There are some beautiful coppers in that group.
@kiyote I returned to my library and looked at the article I mentioned above. Apparently the Indian on a Globe copper is in the ANS collection.
Who is Patrick?
From the first post in this thread, he was a person that built a pretty amazing collection:
https://www.ngccoin.com/gallery/partrick/?page=1
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I know who Partrick is.
.
.
Could not make sense of your post at first til I saw that R.
All these years since the 2015 auction until your post, I never realized it was spelled PaRtrick and not Patrick.
The brain sometimes sees what it expects. Wonder how many others have been seeing it the same way I did.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
https://coinweek.com/education/coin-grading/ngc/the-great-numismatic-sales-of-the-past-part-two/