1909 AYP Expo what HK variety SCD do I have?

Namvet69

I've read and studied lots of AYP sites but I can't nail it down. I know the zigzag rays are key, The gowns don't have the folds. It's not signed. 14.8 g and 36mm means it could be copper but I'd like to for sure. Your insight is appreciated. Peace Roy

Namvet69

I found it! Credit to the "So Called Dollar" guys website. It's an SH 16-15 CU, it is copper and a R-7 as to rarity. I'm leaning toward at least AU. Now to figure a value. Peace Roy

291fifth

The value for such things is what the market will bear at a specific point in time. It is a nice looking example so that will be a big plus.

Namvet69

@291fifth thanks for that, I actually enjoyed the research on this monumental event and all the associated exonumia. Have a good day. Peace Roy

Namvet69

@tokenpro any insight you have on this scd? is appreciated. Peace Roy

tokenpro

@Namvet69 - I do not believe that your piece is a SH16-15 CU (struck in copper). The composition visually appears to be brass and the weight matches up better against SH16-15 GP (Gold-Plated -(13.88 to 14.26 grams) than it does against copper (13.80 to 13.86 grams). Shevlin does not note the base metal for SH16-15 GP (gold-plated) but the weight points towards brass. Additionally, the obverse appears gilted and the gilting also appears between the letters and in the denticles on the reverse.

The images in the hard copy catalog are incorrect with the gold plated image labeled as copper and a separate (gilted?) image labeled as gold-plated? He does not have a listing for a brass or a gilt medal as such - unfortunately Shevlin uses GP interchangeably for Gold-Plated and Gilt in his definitions and often does not list the base metal when GP is used in the catalog. I understand why he uses the terms for anything plated but to me gilting and gold-plating are two different finishes accomplished through two different processes that result in two different varieties -- but that's just me.

Zoins

@tokenpro said:
to me gilting and gold-plating are two different finishes accomplished through two different processes that result in two different varieties -- but that's just me.

What's the difference between gold plating and gilt to you?

I've been trying to figure this out for a long time!

Treashunt

@Zoins said:

@tokenpro said:
to me gilting and gold-plating are two different finishes accomplished through two different processes that result in two different varieties -- but that's just me.

What's the difference between gold plating and gilt to you?

I've been trying to figure this out for a long time!

Definition of gilt (Entry 2 of 3) 1 : gold or something that resembles gold laid on a surface. 2 slang : money. 3 : superficial brilliance\

so, gilt could be brass.

Namvet69

@tokenpro thank you very much for your clarification based on the specs. I needed that. Have a good day. Peace Roy

tokenpro

@Zoins said:

@tokenpro said:
to me gilting and gold-plating are two different finishes accomplished through two different processes that result in two different varieties -- but that's just me.

What's the difference between gold plating and gilt to you?

I've been trying to figure this out for a long time!

The difference to me is probably similar to that of many people. Gilting involves using fine powder, gilt foil or painting the surface before striking, i.e. using a mechanical or chemical process. Gold plating is just that, plating the piece using an electrical or electrochemical process often resulting in a deeper, much richer gold color.

The several chemists and others on the board more familiar with the subject can probably refine the difference better than my attempt

keets

I agree with tokenpro.

--- gilt refers to a medal made by "gilding" the planchets before striking.
--- plated refers to electro-plating or some other means after striking.

Zoins

@tokenpro said:

@Zoins said:

@tokenpro said:
to me gilting and gold-plating are two different finishes accomplished through two different processes that result in two different varieties -- but that's just me.

What's the difference between gold plating and gilt to you?

I've been trying to figure this out for a long time!

The difference to me is probably similar to that of many people. Gilting involves using fine powder, gilt foil or painting the surface before striking, i.e. using a mechanical or chemical process. Gold plating is just that, plating the piece using an electrical or electrochemical process often resulting in a deeper, much richer gold color.

The several chemists and others on the board more familiar with the subject can probably refine the difference better than my attempt

Does the gilting need to be gold, like gold powder, gold foil, etc? Or can it simply be gold-like?

tokenpro

True gilding (correct spelling for the process - my left hand always goes to t instead of d) uses gold in some solid or liquid form. The object processed then can be called gilded or gilt.

In everyday use anything gold colored is often referred to as gilt by many but those on-line sellers that market gilded Chinese brass as pure AU should not only be gilded (and previous first vowel replaced) but filled with g(u)ilt as well.

Gold Plated:

Gilt:

Namvet69

Gotta love a good visual aid!