BGS 7.5 = PSA 7?
80sForever
Posts: 33 ✭
The general rule of thumb seems to be that a KSA graded card should be downgraded by at least 1 grade and - to be prudent - 2 grades, if estimating what the grade would be if crossed over to PSA (e.g. KSA 8 = PSA 7 or 6). Of course this isn't always the case, but based on auction realized prices that appears to be how the market views KSA when compared to PSA.
Do you think a comparable can be made with BGS and PSA?
Let's say that you were seriously considering buying a card on eBay, for illustrative purposes let's say Patrick Roy's 86-87 OPC rookie card, or perhaps Patrick Ewing's 86-87 Fleer rookie card if you prefer basketball, one was a BGS 7.5 and the other one a PSA 7, but the BGS was $60 cheaper (presume that the cards had equal eye appeal and you'd be happy with either one equally from a PC enjoyment perspective), but also considering that years down the road you may wish to consider selling the card, would grabbing the BGS 7.5 be a poor move given PSA's top-flight reputation?
Would you just pay the extra $60 and accept going down by a half-grade to have the PSA 7? Again, presuming you would be equally happy with either card from an eye appeal perspective and your deciding factor was future resale value/reputation of having the PSA 7 instead of the BGS 7.5?
I know a BGS 10 will outperform a PSA 10 due to how rare the BGS 10 is, and BGS 9.5s are usually rather close to PSA 10s, but looking for some insight in this Near Mint+ range if anyone has any. I've just been very focused on PSA cards only since re-entering the hobby and have only recently found a bunch of BGS ones that have caught my eye.
Thanks a lot for any input.
Comments
BGS gave this a centering grade of 10.
They are so inconsistent that you can’t judge the card based on the grade. It is the card.
This would be a 7 at best centering wise from PSA. Three points away for sure and would grade no higher overall.
Do you think this Flair card (despite the centering) would have any chance at a PSA 8 at all?
I see some surface concerns but it's tough to tell if they are on the case or on the card.
I think PSA 7 or PSA 9 OC if one asks for no qualifiers.
I have found some spot on grades from BGS but in most cases on older cards they are over graded vs. PSA by one to two and a half grades.
There is no perfect science. I know a guy that cracked a BVG 9 Magic and Bird rookie and got a PSA 10.
Dpeck has hit the nail on the head. My experience is most vintage cards from Beckett come back a grade less if not more. Having said that I have had some that I have cracked out come back the same grade. The quote "buy the card not the holder" holds true when buying no matter which grading company. I have seen some very generous grades come from PSA as well that might not cross over to BVG or SGC.
That is concerning. I've had no experience attempting a BGS to PSA crossover myself but this gives me great pause and has me looking at paying more for a PSA 7 instead of a BGS 7.5 of the same card.
This is true as well. I had a PSA 7 that was so crookedly cut I couldn't bear looking at it. It had no other flaws (corners, edges, etc. were nice) but there it was, graded as a Near Mint card with no OC qualifier by the top dog grading company in the industry.
Show us the card. Lots of experienced submitters here.
There is a reason PSA in most cases sells for more. The market knows what’s up.
I'll use a Mario situation I'm considering as an example.
This is the BGS 7.5:
Versus the PSA 7:
I don't consider the PSA 7 to be superior in any way in terms of eye appeal. I'm pretty much dead-even on preference for my PC. But hypothetically if I was to sell this in say, 20 years, I would of course want the one that would bring the higher return. These are available at essentially the same price. I like the idea of having a 7.5 more than a 7 (in a general sense naturally) but that becomes moot if PSA's reputation carries such a premium over BGS's to the extent that the half-grade BGS advantage provides no added value.
Thoughts?
One of the things that people like about BGS is you generally have a higher number on the slab. It feels good to see a higher number. That said I personally believe that PSA is the the premier card grading company and so I would rather own cards like this for the long term in their holders. I looked through completed sales and it is clear at higher grades that PSA sells for more but as you point out in this grade it looks fairly close even with the 1/2 point higher grade. If I were you I would just make sure you buy the best centered copy you can at this level. I see there are some fairly OC 7's and I think from and investment standpoint you want the higher quality eye appeal card. I have shown friends over the years cards who are not collectors and discussed grading with them and the natural reaction is to like the card with the most even boarders. I also think there will be demand at this tier of grade for crack out cards to get signed and centering plays a huge role there too. In these two examples the PSA copy is better centered so I would have chosen that one had you blanked out the company who had graded each. Good luck.
I think overall the centering is about even. The BGS is better T/B, but the PSA is better L/R (and maybe a slight tilt to the card). In this case I think the BGS should cross to at least a 7, with the possibility of 7.5 and longshot at an 8. BGS gave that a 7 for centering, but I have some BGS cards that have a better centering grade but look worse than this one (in terms of centering only).
Maybe it is the case but I feel like that left border is fatter on the BGS copy.
In the case of the Lemieux I think the corners are sharper on the BGS than on the PSA. I prefer the BGS out of the two.
I think both are properly graded. the PSA top right corner and the toning or color is not as sharp as the BGS. The BGS probably would cross as a 7 , not 7.5 because of the centering. If the first thing you notice about a card is negative that will knock it down some. The first thing I noticed about the BGS was the left to right centering. The PSA takes a little longer observation.
I agree it would probably cross to a 7. If you think the BGS wins on corners and toning, then Centering should not hold it back from a possible 7.5. Look at the centering on these PSA 8's
I agree with much of what is said here with the exception of looking for/counting on a .5. PSA doesn't seem to use it much.
Generally speaking, if you don't think a card makes the "8" figure on a 7 not a 7.5. IMO
I've also seen PSA 8 Lemieux RCs with that kind of centering. An interesting thing I've noticed with this card is that high-grade PSAs (i.e. 8 or above) usually tend to have a real vibrancy in terms of their color. This is best illustrated in the PSA 8 on the right in your scans. The yellow on Lemieux's jersey and in the Penguins logo seems to be more colorful and pop more than the yellow in the PSA 7 that I sent in my earlier picture (and the PSA 8 on the left above for that matter). I actually neither like it nor dislike it, but it seems the higher-rated PSA Lemieux's mostly have this. It sort of looks like when you turn up the color or contrast setting on your TV and the color becomes almost too colorful.
Anyway, I could have just been looking at too many Lemieux RCs the past few days and I'm overthinking it, but I seem to have noticed that when I see a PSA 8 or 9 that doesn't really look better than a PSA 7 and has less than ideal centering, that bright, almost cartoony yellow color is usually detectable. Many well-known cards have certain specific features that people look for/like. It looks like that's one of the things that helps gets this particular card in a PSA 8+ holder versus a PSA 7 holder.
As a hockey collector:
My opinion on the 1985 OPC/Topps Hockey Set definitely leans towards centering
The corners look soft on the PSA-7 but the centering on the BGS-7.5 seems too much to ignore
Either would be nice for your PC, I will agree with the others that the PSA may hold better value in the future
Good Luck
I would go with the PSA card
What about this one? Could it cross to PSA 8?
Probably not
Top/Bottom Centering and Lower Right Corner looks off
Lower Right Corner definitely a concern. Centering though may be forgiven based on DotStore's scans of the PSA 8's.
This one ended up selling for $397 US ($521 CDN) on eBay.
Bottom right will keep it from an 8.
Agree that it seems unlikely to get the 8. I feel like if you're grabbing a BGS 7.5, you need at least two 9+ subgrades to have a hope of crossing over to PSA 8. Even if you're cracking out of the case and resubmitting (as one would in most cases), the card probably needs to be a "strong" BGS 7.5 in terms of subgrades. Corners are very important to PSA so a 7 subgrade on corners seems to eliminate any hope of this card crossing over to PSA 8.
exactly what I was thinking. and that's also why I thought the first BGS you posted had a slim chance at an 8 because the corners were 7.5, and I think BGS blew it on the centering grade of 7. That BGS card is centered better than either of the two PSA 8's I posted...
Does this card look overgraded to anyone else like it does to me? PSA 8.5? Really?
I think it looks ok. Put another way, if I saw that in a PSA 8 holder, I would say it looks really nice for a PSA 8.
btw, if you blocked out the serial number,, then you should also block out the barcode as you can just scan the barcode to get the serial number (and also sales history...)
Done. Thanks for the heads up.
probably should be an 8. Corners (bottom right and top right )i
Hey all, just wanted to get your thoughts on what you think this one grades if crossed over to PSA?
I currently have around 10 BGS crack outs waiting at PSA for new grades. My rule of thumb is that I will only attempt to cross them over via crack out if all 4 subgrades are at least the same as the overall grade. For instance, I won't try crossing over a BGS 8.5 if any of the subgrades are 8.
I seek out strong BGS's to send to PSA. One that I'm waiting on is a 1989 UD Griffey, which was a BGS 8.5 with 2 8.5 and 2 9 subgrades. One of the 8.5's was centering, which still falls in PSA 9 range.
I was going to bring up the Lemieux rookies. Price wise on sales the two grading companies yield a similar price on a same grade.
Gretzky,Ripken, and Sandberg collection. Still trying to complete 1975 Topps baseball set from when I was a kid.
That makes sense, appreciate the thoughts here! I think for my specific situation, the current prices for a Leo Messi Megacracks PSA 7 (and even a PSA 6) are still higher than what I was able to snag this BGS 7.5 for. Prices have definitely been softening a bit overall for this card which seems to be a trend in sports cards at the moment, so things may change in a matter of 1-3 months from now...
Maybe. I'm not that confident with that surface subgrade. Not sure how low one has to be to suggest "sheet cut", but that would be something I'd be concerned with.