How to price toned coins? CAC vs non CAC
AlanSki
Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've never really sold much of what I have but I have a few things that I just don't have any connection with. I like the color and all but not a fan of the grade. What's a decent selling price on this?
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I don’t think there is any particular formula. Usually I’ll do some research and find what similarly toned coins of the same general type sell for and go from there. But unless your coin catches the imagination of more than one customer who is willing to bid up you’ll probably not realize anything close to moon money. I love an eye appealing toned coin but even I’ll generally stop at a max of 2-3 times generic value (depending upon base price). But it has to be really nice for me to do that. Most toners I see are maybe a 10-20% premium from grade max as far as what I’ll bid.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
I don’t think this particular coins merits a toning premium. It has neutral eye appeal at best to those who collect toners. Vivid Morgan toners literally grow on trees
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'd rate the color as decent, but well short of spectacular. I don't really play with Morgans anymore, but my gut says you might get 2-3x the price of a white coin. What someone may be willing to pay for a given toner is almost impossible to predict in advance.
One reason I think this coin will fetch a premium is because common date MS63s are pretty cheap to begin with.
Hypothetically this one... cellphone vs dslr and led lights
@Justacommeman also knows quite a bit about the market and coins in general. It would probably be wise to listen up if he offers some advice or his opinion.
It's fairly rare that I disagree with someone named Mark. But I feel that the coin deserves a nice toning premium - perhaps 5X or more the price of a generic example.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I'd say a 2x-3X toning premium. Regular 63's are currently around $60-$65.
The number that popped in my head was $150-200ish so we're in agreement.
I think between $80 and $100, many times people looking at toners do not look at "book value" they just want the coin. Who knows in a auction setting maybe 2 people gotta have it and it goes for more.
Al
Combine BST with OBO and you'll know for sure.
I guess we need to define "Premium." When I hear that word I think WAY over book value. All due respect, I like the looks of your Morgan too, but I wouldn't pay large for it. Yes you'll most certainly do well but how well is the question. I don't know of anyway to determine the value of a toned coin with the exception of how much it appeals to me and what I might pay for it. This will always vary from one person to another. In this case, Mark isn't thrilled with the toning, while others are. So for that reason I have never seen a formula nor do I think one exists.
Good luck with your auction.
"Premium" = "a sum added to an ordinary price or charge". A premium can range anywhere from negative to humongous on the plus side.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I agree with @MFeld here. I would value the coin around $200-$250. I could easily see more if the luster is good and the left side isn’t terminal. I don’t think the pics are doing this coin any favors.
Yes you will be able to get more than book to the right buyer. I don’t associate 40% splotchy yellow and a 50% obverse that I interpret as near terminal as premium worthy. And yes my interpretation of premium is not as literal as some.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=You+got+me+from+Breaking+bad&docid=607989183875842062&mid=0CCFC060B18004D3EB730CCFC060B18004D3EB73&view=detail&FORM=VIRE
Are we talking about the 84o
Could be both... I think everyone stuck to the 84-O though.
84 O $150 - $200
04 O $225 -$325
What do I know......dogs are colorblind.
Personally I was only talking about the 84-0. I didn’t even see the 1904-0. The latter coin obviously merits a toning premium albeit a lot of toned buyers will pass as it’s an acquired taste.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I agree with the 150 range.
Agreed.
Nice piece -
Now get it beaned, and I can see $250-350 , plus a solid chance this goes to over 100 comments if you add that 3 letter code word to subject line, an emotional trigger to some.
Regarding the 1884-O - I figure it at $200 plus, easily, another poster figured it at $200 plus and a colleague of mine values it at $300+. Odds are excellent that the three of us aren’t the top three potential buyer/bidders for the coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Nice toning!
hmmm...it's getting to be time to put my chemistry degree (and lab) to good use.
Someone always says that but not one has come back and shared results that were even remotely similar to market acceptable toners.
I think the OP coin has nice color but the grade isn't high enough. if this coin was in higher grade, like MS66, with a clean cheek, fields and luster the toned guys would be drooling.
If I'm successful, I won't show you either. I will just be quietly submitting and cashing the checks. LOL.
It's really not that hard to tone silver in a relatively controlled fashion. Copper is trickier, although MS-70 will give you the controversial blue color more often than Rick Snow cares to admit.
I hear that too. The ones that are most adamant are usually the ones that produce the worst AT or keep making the same claim in the future without even doing the experiment. If you could replicate market acceptable toning, then you wouldn't have commented at all.
I've only seen one coin that I'd call an attractive AT coin.
What the market will bear. There are apparently a good number of new collectors who have been told that toned coins are good and deserve premiums. Put your up for sale with accurate photos and description and take what the market brings.
Personally, I wouldn't pay any premium for the toning on your coin. I just don't buy into the toning premium craze.
Toners are a wildcard, a preference. Not everybody likes them. Many if not most prefer brilliant / PQ with super cartwheel luster. Not much of a toner hobbyist. If you pay too much your the end user. Pricing can be subjective and what they realize vary. The ones I have won off GC or bought from wholesaler at show just priced cost plus if above bid in them. Some moved fast some not. As far as formula that is subjective and based on experience. Brilliant coins with lite peripheral toning like russet or gold with a really PQ look sell quickly and well. Toners spotted look like they run over by truck, dark splotchy areas - a tarnished joke, forget it. Tarnish only gets worse with time.
You can buy some toners to test the water mark them up keystone see what happens.
The 1904-O MS64 CAC $ has toner premium Potential but YMMV and it takes that special buyer. Nice attractive coin. His sticker indicates it’s an A or B coin beyond that it’s what it will trade for on the bourse. It’s a high pop issue in 64 with 56k plus. CF MV $75 but w toner premium pass to buyer / seller.
That 04-O may surprise everyone, the 00-04 morgans aren't easy to find with color like that. If you want to sell both of those I'd send them to Great Collections which seem to fetch strong prices for toned morgans.
My name isn't Mark, however, so feel free to discount my 2 cents to 70% of price guide.
I'm not sure what your point is. I said it's time to put my chemistry degree to use. I didn't say I had produced any fake toners yet.
But you're an idiot if you think there aren't already dozens of people out there who have been doing it. I know a guy who has done it. We've had threads here devoted to large dealers with consecutive True Views that are all suspect toners but are MA because they are in holders.
To be clear, I've never bothered to even try with silver. I did some work with copper but for a different reason. But I'm quite sure it can be done. And we both know that it already has been done, so I'm not sure why you seem to be implying that it can't be done.
“I’ll break out my chemistry set” has become a coin cliche.
I upped that to my $2 million chemistry lab. LOL
I’m implying that people like you that come on these forums and tell us how easy it is are very often wrong.
The dozens of TruViews you referenced are often coins that were gassed and sent to be reholdered. Most of those were very obvious and the only reason they passed is that the reholdering process has a flaw where the coins were never viewed by the graders.
People, like you, who spew what they don’t know often end up regurgitating speculation and false rumors.
What does “terminal” mean?
Black spectrum of the toning progression scale.
Interesting...
I made the joke that (based on the absurd premium on some of these coins) it was time to "break out my chemistry" degree. You then pretty much inferred the rest.
I made no claim of having ever even tried to tone coins myself. I do know someone who does it all the time with about a 25-50% success rate in getting them into holders. But, I have not done it myself.
I get it. You don't like me. I'll try not to lose any sleep over it. LOL
[Personally, I'm not so sure that 84-O is all that natural. Note the splotches. Also the odd boundary line to the toning near "Pluri" and then "Unum". Now, it may not have been done intentionally, but that coin came into contact with a chemical solution. Could have been something that dripped on a canvas bag. Could have been damp leather. Don't know for sure. Could have even been something that was on the planchet before striking, I suppose. But AT or NT is really all in how you define them, isn't it?]
P.S. Kind of funny that after 13,000 posts, I'm one of those people that "come on these forums and tell us how easy it is". I think it would be more accurate to say that I'm a forum fixture that doesn't think it is that hard to tone silver. If you wanted, you could lay it down monolayer by monolayer, although I doubt it is worth that much time and expense.
It would be kind of surprising given all the fancy materials and biomaterials that are manufactured in incredibly controlled manners that the hardest thing on the planet to make is a rainbow on a silver dollar.
This is at the point where the toning layer starts to become impacted (a sort of 'tone-burn'). You cannot really dip the toning off at this point--a gray layer will remain, even after a long dip.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
I've found that PCGS TrueView pictures really help get more for toned coins. Its often hard to tell from pictures what the toning is going to look like. different dealers and auction houses take their own pictures, but i think to get the most out of a toned coin it needs a pcgs trueview along with a green bean
First coin should sell for $100+, second coin is at least a $400 coin but could fetch far more in the right setting.
Great Collections?
I don't dislike you or anyone here. I dislike the random nonsense that you and some others spew. Quite a few of your 13,000+ posts are reasonable but some come out of left field. And those that talk about no premium for this coin are also ignoring the market. It's fine to not like toners but it's fairly easy to learn that these sell for a premium. It's the same with people who talk about how easy it is to recreate the well known toning patterns. It is not easy and if some actually tried the experiments on their own, they would see that.
I have come to the conclusion that there should be 3 ways to describe toned coins, AT, NT, MA there will always be disagreements on NT or AT but MA kinda says it all
A "premium" could also be a gizmo in a box of cereal.
I don't think any Morgans are in boxes of cereal.
yet
Being highly opinionated doesn’t make you right.
The 84-O is absolutely NT.
I have barely over 4000 posts in 16 years but I probably don’t know what I’m taking about based on that metric.