eBay Returns

NGS428

I have a buyer asking to return an item. Item was sold as “no returns”. I know that doesn’t mean much on eBay. Buyer states that they simply “changed their mind”. Due to the reason they chose and the fact I had no returns, eBay is not requiring me to accept the return. Low dollar item $30 sold as free shipping.

It looks like I can request the buyer to pay return shipping.

I have since been listing my items with a shipping cost (so I don’t have to refund the total price they paid, just the item price), 30 day returns and buyer pays return shipping. That seems like the best route, but maybe I am wrong.

At least they were honest and didn’t just choose not as described, which would have forced the return.

Do you typically always accept returns, no matter what?

JoeBanzai

@NGS428 said:
I have a buyer asking to return an item. Item was sold as “no returns”. I know that doesn’t mean much on eBay. Buyer states that they simply “changed their mind”. Due to the reason they chose and the fact I had no returns, eBay is not requiring me to accept the return. Low dollar item $30 sold as free shipping.

It looks like I can request the buyer to pay return shipping.

I have since been listing my items with a shipping cost (so I don’t have to refund the total price they paid, just the item price), 30 day returns and buyer pays return shipping. That seems like the best route, but maybe I am wrong.

At least they were honest and didn’t just choose not as described, which would have forced the return.

Do you typically always accept returns, no matter what?

You don't have a choice. Accept the return, block them from bidding on any of your future auctions and PLEASE post their ebay bidder ID so we can block him/her.

Ebay has decided to TOTALLY screw the seller. The only recourse (that I can think of) is what is posted above.

NGS428

@dustinspeaks said:
Why is accepting a return such a big deal?

Not a big deal if the return is legitimate, but as @JoeBanzai stated, eBay is very pro buyer. Not everything should always fall in the seller.

JoeBanzai

@dustinspeaks said:
Yeah, eBay is completely pro buyer. Because they're the ones with the money.

I look at the rule and think it's totally easy for the seller to get scammed. The seller has 100 percent of the risk.

But, nearly every store I go in will take back something that I want to return. In your case you don't have to accept the return. Your listing says no returns and the buyer clicked changed mind. You can say no. You're not getting scammed. There isn't any problem or foul play here.

No one is claiming a scam in this case.

Without sellers, the people with the money won't have any collectibles.

Sellers have no choice but to accept the rules regarding returns.

erikthredd

If your listing said no returns and the buyer started a return process because they "changed their mind" as the reason then you definitely have a legit chance at winning your case. Earlier this year I was in the same situation (no returns, buyer changed their mind) on a $350+ sale and after talking with an ebay rep they closed the return in my favor because the buyer had Buyer's Remorse. Once your buyer chooses "Changed their mind" they can't change it to an "item not as described" or item arrived damaged" which in both cases you'd probably lose.

From ebay:
You can choose whether to accept returns if a buyer changes their mind about a purchase. However, if an item arrives damaged, doesn't match the listing description, or if the buyer receives the wrong item, they’re always entitled to return it to you, even if you don’t offer returns.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115

What it really comes down to is do you want to fight over a $30 item?

JoeBanzai

@dustinspeaks said:
If you're not saying there is a problem why are you saying the guys username should be distributed and blocked?

I didn't say there was a problem. I was answering the OP's question regarding returns.

Are you a troll?

In the (doubtful) case you aren't, I'll answer your question;

I buy and sell on ebay. It's almost always fun, sometimes it's profitable.

I honor my purchases and I would expect others to do so if they buy from me and they get the item as described and in a timely manner.

Just as any "brick and mortar" store can refuse to do business with a customer, I can choose to refuse to sell to someone who causes me to lose money (and time) on something simply because they changed their mind.

@erikthredd said:
If your listing said no returns and the buyer started a return process because they "changed their mind" as the reason then you definitely have a legit chance at winning your case. Earlier this year I was in the same situation (no returns, buyer changed their mind) on a $350+ sale and after talking with an ebay rep they closed the return in my favor because the buyer had Buyer's Remorse. Once your buyer chooses "Changed their mind" they can't change it to an "item not as described" or item arrived damaged" which in both cases you'd probably lose.

From ebay:
You can choose whether to accept returns if a buyer changes their mind about a purchase. However, if an item arrives damaged, doesn't match the listing description, or if the buyer receives the wrong item, they’re always entitled to return it to you, even if you don’t offer returns.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115

What it really comes down to is do you want to fight over a $30 item?

Very glad to hear that! Unfortunately (for sellers) ebay is getting more unfriendly.

Their game their rules.

80sOPC

In a world where you can buy patio furniture at Costco, use it for 18 months and return it. Or where HD takes returns without receipts, Amazon takes anything back at their cost for any reason, I don’t find eBays return policies that crazy.

The issue is buyers, and the crazy swings in card prices. Just wait until the bottom falls out on card prices and that card you sold for 500 is now selling for 250 thirty days later. Returns will be epic when the sneaker boi investors decide to exit.

NGS428

Thanks for all the feedback on this topic. This was not a sports card, it was a small electronic device (MS Surface Pen), so the buyer in question is not in the card market (tech repair company). I was more concerned on the subject at hand, not necessarily the specific item.

I am going to see if eBay actually sides with me on this one. I declined the return and they stated the return is closed.

Maybe the buyer will hit me with negative feedback (not sure if they can and don’t really care).

As I stated in my initial post, I have since been listing my items with a shipping cost (so I don’t have to refund the total price they paid, just the item price), 30 day returns and buyer pays return shipping. Hopefully that is the best way to get some “protection”, as little as it is, as a seller.

NGS428

@80sOPC said:
In a world where you can buy patio furniture at Costco, use it for 18 months and return it. Or where HD takes returns without receipts, Amazon takes anything back at their cost for any reason, I don’t find eBays return policies that crazy.

The issue is buyers, and the crazy swings in card prices. Just wait until the bottom falls out on card prices and that card you sold for 500 is now selling for 250 thirty days later. Returns will be epic when the sneaker boi investors decide to exit.

That is a good point on the card price swings. Always has been an issue and if the bottom drops it could be a real issue.

rexvos

I am trying to stop selling on eBay altogether. July was the first month in probably a decade in which I was successful. I am now doing shows (when possible). Sell on myslabs.com (1% seller fees, and no returns) for higher end graded, raw cards I sell on sportlots and low end graded on sportlots auctions, forums and facebook. Yes you do not get the traffic, but you also do not get the hassle. Especially with them trying to push managed payments down sellers throats, I am out. They are trying to be Amazon. There are reasons why most card sellers are not using amazon and this is one of them. Returns for any reason thrust upon the seller all at the seller's expense.

miwlvrn

@erikthredd said:
If your listing said no returns and the buyer started a return process because they "changed their mind" as the reason then you definitely have a legit chance at winning your case. Earlier this year I was in the same situation (no returns, buyer changed their mind) on a $350+ sale and after talking with an ebay rep they closed the return in my favor because the buyer had Buyer's Remorse. Once your buyer chooses "Changed their mind" they can't change it to an "item not as described" or item arrived damaged" which in both cases you'd probably lose.

From ebay:
You can choose whether to accept returns if a buyer changes their mind about a purchase. However, if an item arrives damaged, doesn't match the listing description, or if the buyer receives the wrong item, they’re always entitled to return it to you, even if you don’t offer returns.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115

What it really comes down to is do you want to fight over a $30 item?

The existence of "not as described" means every seller will have to take refunds regardless of their policy. If buyers want to abuse the system, the method is there for the taking. Sellers just need to play the odds that most people won't take advantage when not warranted. Once the return request is filed though, there is no way to enforce returning of the same purchased item in the same condition. The buyer could send an empty envelope, a completely different item, another one of the same item but in worse condition than the one the seller sent such that they get a free upgrade, or, send back the purchased item after they the buyer damaged it in some way.

For the speculation investor who buys cards, it is a lot safer than stocks. If you buy stocks and they reduce in value within 180 days, you certainly don't have the option to return the purchase for a full refund. Like has been said in other posts above here, some of the cards experiencing great sales values may very well come down quite a bit in a few months, which means if an investment item is returned, the seller ends up reselling the same item outside/after peak market value instead of during the peak.

There are of course plenty of positive points to be made about selling items on ebay too, but I think we all know those.

As a side note, I have noticed that my relatively higher priced items, say over $1,000 or so, have lately been shipping to PWCC vault boxes rather than to collectors at their addresses. Sometimes these buyers are from other countries, especially Hong Kong, and I guess it can't be sure if they are using the vault purely for investment purposes, or if they don't have reliable or reasonable shipping across the globe and the vault is a work-around. Either way, it will be interesting to see if any of these investment purchases ask for returns within the 180 day window, since the way I see it, shipping to a PWCC vault is primarily for the purpose of holding for later/eventual flip on PWCC auction at a later date. Therefore, a return request for an item sent to a vault box would seem disingenuous.

erikthredd

@miwlvrn said:

@erikthredd said:
If your listing said no returns and the buyer started a return process because they "changed their mind" as the reason then you definitely have a legit chance at winning your case. Earlier this year I was in the same situation (no returns, buyer changed their mind) on a $350+ sale and after talking with an ebay rep they closed the return in my favor because the buyer had Buyer's Remorse. Once your buyer chooses "Changed their mind" they can't change it to an "item not as described" or item arrived damaged" which in both cases you'd probably lose.

From ebay:
You can choose whether to accept returns if a buyer changes their mind about a purchase. However, if an item arrives damaged, doesn't match the listing description, or if the buyer receives the wrong item, they’re always entitled to return it to you, even if you don’t offer returns.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115

What it really comes down to is do you want to fight over a $30 item?

The existence of "not as described" means every seller will have to take refunds regardless of their policy. If buyers want to abuse the system, the method is there for the taking. Sellers just need to play the odds that most people won't take advantage when not warranted. Once the return request is filed though, there is no way to enforce returning of the same purchased item in the same condition. The buyer could send an empty envelope, a completely different item, another one of the same item but in worse condition than the one the seller sent such that they get a free upgrade, or, send back the purchased item after they the buyer damaged it in some way.

For the speculation investor who buys cards, it is a lot safer than stocks. If you buy stocks and they reduce in value within 180 days, you certainly don't have the option to return the purchase for a full refund. Like has been said in other posts above here, some of the cards experiencing great sales values may very well come down quite a bit in a few months, which means if an investment item is returned, the seller ends up reselling the same item outside/after peak market value instead of during the peak.

There are of course plenty of positive points to be made about selling items on ebay too, but I think we all know those.

As a side note, I have noticed that my relatively higher priced items, say over $1,000 or so, have lately been shipping to PWCC vault boxes rather than to collectors at their addresses. Sometimes these buyers are from other countries, especially Hong Kong, and I guess it can't be sure if they are using the vault purely for investment purposes, or if they don't have reliable or reasonable shipping across the globe and the vault is a work-around. Either way, it will be interesting to see if any of these investment purchases ask for returns within the 180 day window, since the way I see it, shipping to a PWCC vault is primarily for the purpose of holding for later/eventual flip on PWCC auction at a later date. Therefore, a return request for an item sent to a vault box would seem disingenuous.

I think the one main thing that would be in NGS428's favor though in this situation is once his buyer chooses "changed their mind" as their reason for a return if he loses he can't open a second return attempt as INAD,as far as ebay is concerned. I know that they could then attempt a return on Paypal or with their credit card then though. I was just pointing out to him that,yes, he can refuse the return if he wants and its not always a guaranteed win for the buyer in these situations.
I get your point about cards possibly losing their value and getting returned at a later date. I think most sports card sellers on ebay at one point or another worry about this happening to them,I know I have. I tend to take a little less of recent market value on many of my sales,occasionally throw in some extra freebies and ship a well protected package as quick as possible to leave my buyer's feeling they got an overall very positive transaction. I know that even doing all of that doesn't guarantee that you won't get some loser trying to game the system.
As for your last part,I actually just shipped two Jordan PSA 10 cards to a the PWCC Vault a couple weeks ago and thought of some of the pitfalls you just pointed out. Another one to add is when do these buyers leave ebay feedback on items shipped to the Vault? Would they even leave feedback for an item that they might not ever even hold? I'm sure many of these buyers probably don't even care in this situation its only all about the money in the end.

thedutymon11

Afternoon,

1. Not as Described, One Buyer, 9 items, will not answer my E-Bay messages (Scum knew what he was doing)
2. On day 3, E-Bay Lets Buyer print 9 Shipping Labels (Flat Rate Envelopes $7 per) on my dime, taken out of my PayPal
3. Envelopes return, open one it is empty, stop my Postal Girl, get pictures of her opening 5 of them with me in Uniform
4. Post pictures to my E-bay case and send to E-bay Customer Service, no return Communication
5. Call E-Bay, service Rep acknowledges Pictures of Empty Envelopes are of opening with pictures of Buyers info on them with Postal Employee
6. Day 7 after return, E-Bay refunds $400 to Buyer with no communication to me, out of my PayPal Account, had less than $400 in PayPal, so took rest from my Bank Account
7. With Flat Rate Envelopes Postage Out $463

Moral of the Story...With E-Bay, as a Seller, Your F&%$Ked!!

YeeHah!

Neil

coinpalice

it's just like people who return stuff at retail stores with no problems, about 2 percent of the population has buyers remorse and will return everything

blurryface

@dustinspeaks said:
I have gotten mad at eBay many times and have wanted to move away from it. There really isn't a good option though. Amazon is the only thing similar with similar traffic.

Now there is Instagram. I have heard that people move stuff through there often. There is no sales history. No rules. That setup is great for sellers. No protection for buyers. Facebook forums, same thing. No buyer protection. The lack of buyer protection would lead me to believe sales number would be very low.

I've been selling on eBay for like 18 years. Not high volume. But, I've probably only ever had 10 things returned. The biggest hit I've ever taken was selling internationally outside of the Global Shipping Program. eBay refunded their money and there was no way for me to get them a return shipping label at any reasonable price. So they got to keep my amplifier and their money. Now I only sell internationally using that program.

Primarily buy off instagram and plenty of protection using Paypal goods. Please be careful about spreading false information especially when so many people are attempting to move away from ebay.

blurryface

And OP, there is a 14 day return option. Probably not available when you make a listing. Just scour ebay until you find one, then hit the "sell similar" tab and then create your listing. Then save as a draft or just keep hitting create similar.

craig44

I don't really understand all the wailing and knashing of teeth surrounding selling on ebay. We all know the policy regarding returns. It's just part of doing business on the biggest card marketplace in the world. There is a good reason ebay (and most other big business) has such buyer friendly returns, to drive the most eyes to the site without fear of purchasing. I for one love the amount of people who buy on the bay. If it was not for such traffic, our cards would be selling for much much less. It's not all bad.

Selling before ebay was going to the lcs where you were lucky to get 50% for your cards. Now, we are all dealers.

NGS428

@blurryface said:
And OP, there is a 14 day return option. Probably not available when you make a listing. Just scour ebay until you find one, then hit the "sell similar" tab and then create your listing. Then save as a draft or just keep hitting create similar.

Interesting. I will take a look at that.

ndleo

Ebay should be treated as just another venue to sell like COMC, Sportslots, Beckett, CU. All of the anti-seller changes ebay started rolling out a few years ago motivated me to look at other methods of selling. I should thank them for being so short-sighted.

galaxy27

i've made purchases on ebay for 20+ years, thus i know what's to be expected from a garden-variety seller. so when it comes time to try and move items on there, i make a concerted effort to do things for buyers that i rarely, if ever, experience myself. i'm always thinking outside the box, always trying to go above and beyond. i'm convinced that if you can leave a buyer with a "man, no one ever does that" taste in their mouth, you make it very, very difficult for them to f you over. sure, it's inevitable that you'll eventually cross paths with someone who is devoid of a conscience, but this approach has, for the most part, kept me unscathed for as long as i can remember.

JoeBanzai

@craig44 said:
I don't really understand all the wailing and knashing of teeth surrounding selling on ebay. We all know the policy regarding returns. It's just part of doing business on the biggest card marketplace in the world. There is a good reason ebay (and most other big business) has such buyer friendly returns, to drive the most eyes to the site without fear of purchasing. I for one love the amount of people who buy on the bay. If it was not for such traffic, our cards would be selling for much much less. It's not all bad.

Selling before ebay was going to the lcs where you were lucky to get 50% for your cards. Now, we are all dealers.

Have you read the posts?

When you have buyers remorse at a brick and mortar, you have to return the item to get your refund. Sometimes they require a receipt and sometimes they give you store credit. Sometimes they refuse to do anything.

With ebays rules, buyers get their refund as soon as you get the package delivered to you, even if the package is empty!

Do you understand now why someone might be "wailing and gnashing" their teeth?

Personally I have had good luck selling on ebay. It's the best option.

I would worry if I had a big ticket item to sell though. Ebay's return policy really puts the sellers at risk.

blurryface

@dustinspeaks said:

@blurryface said:

Primarily buy off instagram and plenty of protection using Paypal goods. Please be careful about spreading false information especially when so many people are attempting to move away from ebay.

That's PayPal providing you protection. Not Instagram. I have never read PayPal's buyer protection information.Nearly everybody I see selling asks for PayPal friends and family. Which will completely screw the buyer if there is a problem.

Paypal goods and services provides the same protection across any platform. Scammers dont last long on insta, no longer than they would here on the B/S/T. And just like here or anywhere, if you cheap out and use FNF to shave a couple dollars off, then you are giving up that protection. However, to simply shout out that there is no protection and it's the wild wild west and give the impression to those thinking about making the jump is wrong and irresponsible. Even more so, when you havent purchased anything yourself, havent been scammed personally & using heresay.

BTW; Insta has a pretty good way of policing itself should you ever actually try using it. It's extremely easy to get the word out "insta"ntly and forever simply by making a hashtag for that person. Scammers dont last long there. Trust someone thats spent 6 figs there w/ 30+ folks just in the last month or so.

Ebay is very aware of sites like Facebook Marketplace, Mercari, Insta, Letgo and other competition. They are rolling out incentives, free lisiting & fvf fees by linking your listings to social media. They actually provided $200 credit to anyone willing to fill out an insanely long survey to those who answered a 1 question blast email if they ever used one of the aforementioned selling outlets. I got about 3 pages deep before it became very clear just how worried they are about the future. Theyve alreay pissed off sellers w/ returns ease, buyers are clearing back after the implementation of tax on the SD vs Wayfair decision and now w/ ebay's breakaway of paypal and implementation of "managed payments" it could very well be the beginning of the (significant) end to ebay. My spending has all but halted there. Getting ready to start a majority of my selling listings elsewhere soon. I blame PWCC though. Had they not done what they did all my stuff would still be getting boxed up and sent there for ease.

stevek

<<< Do you typically always accept returns, no matter what? >>>

Yes.

coolstanley

Funny I just got a message from a buyer on ebay 2 DAYS AGO with 46 feedback wanting a refund for a card I sold him 2 1/2 years ago. He said in his message he wants a refund for the card and the refund for the grading fee LOL.

doubledragon

@coolstanley said:
Funny I just got a message from a buyer on ebay 2 DAYS AGO with 46 feedback wanting a refund for a card I sold him 2 1/2 years ago. He said in his message he wants a refund for the card and the refund for the grading fee LOL.

😂 I would ask him, who are you?

DeutscherGeist

@galaxy27 said:
i've made purchases on ebay for 20+ years, thus i know what's to be expected from a garden-variety seller. so when it comes time to try and move items on there, i make a concerted effort to do things for buyers that i rarely, if ever, experience myself. i'm always thinking outside the box, always trying to go above and beyond. i'm convinced that if you can leave a buyer with a "man, no one ever does that" taste in their mouth, you make it very, very difficult for them to f you over. sure, it's inevitable that you'll eventually cross paths with someone who is devoid of a conscience, but this approach has, for the most part, kept me unscathed for as long as i can remember.

I found this post to be intriguing. Would you like to share what little things and attention to detail help build buyer satisfaction besides having clear pictures and descriptions of the selling item? I have had a few sellers go beyond the normal routine in my 20+ years of buying on ebay. Some have put in extra items they thought I might like based on my purchase, for example. I recall buying a Wade Boggs rookie card and the seller included another Wade Boggs card from one of his playing years as a gift (the seller left a note saying that he did not make it to the post office sooner than he intended and wanted to kind of make it up). I am not a stickler on shipping as long as the item arrives safely and the description was accurate. The rookie card was graded, so expectations are more easily managed in what one is getting, but I thought the extra card was a nice gesture. I still have it in my collection.

DeutscherGeist

I understand that there is good buyer protection on eBay, but I am in the middle of a case where I returned an item that was slightly damaged (shipping label provided by seller), but now the seller refuses to refund unless I close the PayPal case. However, if I close now, I no longer have any kind of protection that I would even get the money. The seller claims that as long as the case is open, they cannot refund or would incur extra fees. This does not sound true as PayPal does not charge sellers issuing a refund to a buyer (or am I missing something?). I escalated the case before the deadline so PayPal could help me. I just hope I get my money back in full. Do they normally return the item price, taxes and shipping I paid upon initially ordering the item? I fear not getting all of it back.

miwlvrn

One way to protect yourself as a seller is making sure to add all your cert numbers into your registry account. Do not delete them when you put the items up for sale, or after they have been paid for. Only delete them after they have been delivered to the buyer (this requires staying on top of checking your shipment tracking progress). If a purchased item is claimed as not received, then file a report with PSA (and if the value is high enough, with the police dept. as well) specifying the item associated with the cert as stolen. If the buyer, or someone else, tries to add the cert to their registry, you will receive an automatic email from PSA saying someone else is trying to add a cert you have registered, and then they will have to provide photos to PSA, thus proving their possession of a stolen item. This does not prevent scammers from cracking the card out and re-subbing it, but it does offer at least one step of protection.

dontippet

@DeutscherGeist said:
I understand that there is good buyer protection on eBay, but I am in the middle of a case where I returned an item that was slightly damaged (shipping label provided by seller), but now the seller refuses to refund unless I close the PayPal case. However, if I close now, I no longer have any kind of protection that I would even get the money. The seller claims that as long as the case is open, they cannot refund or would incur extra fees. This does not sound true as PayPal does not charge sellers issuing a refund to a buyer (or am I missing something?). I escalated the case before the deadline so PayPal could help me. I just hope I get my money back in full. Do they normally return the item price, taxes and shipping I paid upon initially ordering the item? I fear not getting all of it back.

Keep the Paypal case open. The seller has a deadline to reply. If they don't, then Paypal will decide and almost always it will be in your favor. I've had dozens of Paypal cases as a buyer due to returns or not receiving items and have never lost the case. I can almost guarantee you will get all of your monies back. If you are concerned, you could call Paypal and get their insight.

craig44

@JoeBanzai said:

@craig44 said:
I don't really understand all the wailing and knashing of teeth surrounding selling on ebay. We all know the policy regarding returns. It's just part of doing business on the biggest card marketplace in the world. There is a good reason ebay (and most other big business) has such buyer friendly returns, to drive the most eyes to the site without fear of purchasing. I for one love the amount of people who buy on the bay. If it was not for such traffic, our cards would be selling for much much less. It's not all bad.

Selling before ebay was going to the lcs where you were lucky to get 50% for your cards. Now, we are all dealers.

Have you read the posts?

When you have buyers remorse at a brick and mortar, you have to return the item to get your refund. Sometimes they require a receipt and sometimes they give you store credit. Sometimes they refuse to do anything.

With ebays rules, buyers get their refund as soon as you get the package delivered to you, even if the package is empty!

Do you understand now why someone might be "wailing and gnashing" their teeth?

Personally I have had good luck selling on ebay. It's the best option.

I would worry if I had a big ticket item to sell though. Ebay's return policy really puts the sellers at risk.

joe, what i am saying is that we all know what we are getting into before we sell. if not, shame on the person who doesnt research a seller platform before selling. if you dont agree with the policy, dont sell.

yes, returns stink, but that is part of selling sports cards on the biggest marketplace on the internet for sports cards. if ebay did not keep up with other online marketplaces like amazon, buyers would have no confidence and sale prices for sellers would go down.

JoeBanzai

You are correct. As I have agreed, ebay is the best way to buy and sell sports cards and memorabilia.

I have had great luck selling my "nickel and dime" stuff.

I still don't like where it was before, or where it's going with returns, even though I have not been "burned".

If I had a $500 (or more) card to sell, I would be worried that a buyer could easily get his refund and keep the card. It just seems too easy. Thankfully most people are honest.

Bid retractions are another thing I would eliminate. When there are obvious (to me) major flaws in the system, I wonder why they aren't addressed.

Ebay gets their fees regardless, don't they?

DeutscherGeist

@dustinspeaks said:
On eBay you can't force someone to pay. So why wouldn't you let them retract their bid? You can't even give negative feedback to a buyer. The buyer side is all honor system.

Bid retraction is actually a good feature on ebay. A buyer can remove themselves from the bidding so the seller does not have to deal with a possible return later. I understand that if the bid retraction is too close to the auction end, it can be disruptive to the whole auction, but eBay has rules against that. Sometimes a buyer mistakenly bids or bids the wrong amount and immediately removes the bid with 4 days or so remaining. I also wonder what is the harm in that?

JoeBanzai

@DeutscherGeist said:

@dustinspeaks said:
On eBay you can't force someone to pay. So why wouldn't you let them retract their bid? You can't even give negative feedback to a buyer. The buyer side is all honor system.

Bid retraction is actually a good feature on ebay. A buyer can remove themselves from the bidding so the seller does not have to deal with a possible return later. I understand that if the bid retraction is too close to the auction end, it can be disruptive to the whole auction, but eBay has rules against that. Sometimes a buyer mistakenly bids or bids the wrong amount and immediately removes the bid with 4 days or so remaining. I also wonder what is the harm in that?

Really, are you drunk? You don't seem to have a basic comprehension of how auctions work. I'll explain it to you. You have a bid of $50.00 in on an item you want, the item is at $20.00. Another guy bids a few times. Now it's at $45.00. He outbids you and then retracts. THIS IS BAD!

How many times do you bid on something mistakenly? People retract their bids to find out how much the actual bid is or the reserve. Since they have no intention of actually buying the item they won't be returning it right?

In any "real" auction, you must honor any bid you place or you are banned. The same thing should happen with ebay. But that would COST them fees.

@dustinspeaks said:
There are rules about when you can retract. I don't know what the are. I know you cant just do it any time though.

Yes there are some rules.

DeutscherGeist

@JoeBanzai said:
Really, are you drunk? You don't seem to have a basic comprehension of how auctions work. I'll explain it to you. You have a bid of $50.00 in on an item you want, the item is at $20.00. Another guy bids a few times. Now it's at $45.00. He outbids you and then retracts. THIS IS BAD!

How many times do you bid on something mistakenly? People retract their bids to find out how much the actual bid is or the reserve. Since they have no intention of actually buying the item they won't be returning it right?

In any "real" auction, you must honor any bid you place or you are banned. The same thing should happen with ebay. But that would COST them fees.

In the case where the guy that outbids another participant and then retracts, the auction goes back to as if the person never existed. In your example, the auction would go back to $20, not stay at $45. So, the scenario that you describe is incomplete. If it would stay at $45, then that is a big problem, but it does not.

erikthredd

@DeutscherGeist said:

@JoeBanzai said:
Really, are you drunk? You don't seem to have a basic comprehension of how auctions work. I'll explain it to you. You have a bid of $50.00 in on an item you want, the item is at $20.00. Another guy bids a few times. Now it's at $45.00. He outbids you and then retracts. THIS IS BAD!

How many times do you bid on something mistakenly? People retract their bids to find out how much the actual bid is or the reserve. Since they have no intention of actually buying the item they won't be returning it right?

In any "real" auction, you must honor any bid you place or you are banned. The same thing should happen with ebay. But that would COST them fees.

In the case where the guy that outbids another participant and then retracts, the auction goes back to as if the person never existed. In your example, the auction would go back to $20, not stay at $45. So, the scenario that you describe is incomplete. If it would stay at $45, then that is a big problem, but it does not.

Not if the retractor bids in $5 increments until he surpasses your $50 bid,sees that he's now the highest bidder then retracts that last $5 bid putting him back in 2nd place at $45. That scenario happens all of the time and these guys retracting get away with it.

thedutymon11

@dustinspeaks said:
.

When I was a kid I used a bid board in a shop once. I posted some stuff. Someone bid a low amount and nobody fought over it. The store owner ended up bidding to save me. Similar. Shady? YES !!!!!! I don't know. I was glad he saved.

Just WOW! If your item is going to close low. You can always phone a friend and have them save for the price of the FVF. Shady? Hard to say. Extremely YES!!!

I don't always bid to win. Sometimes I bid to lose. Nothing shady about it. Not my item. Just something I think is more valuable than the bids reflect.

So Glad you're there, to be the Moral Police on what an item should cost Me!! Unbelieveable you'd admit this even if it is true!!!!!

I see that you have had a Lifelong Challenge with Honesty and Integrity!

Note to Self: Self don't do any Business with this member as he has the Morals and Integrity of a ....well you know what!!!

YeeHah!

Neil

Mickey71

I just read that bid retractions are actually good. OMG. When I thought I've actually heard it all- I haven't. I needed a very good afternoon laugh. We should do a POLL of all members with no bid retractions. The list would be very short.

DeutscherGeist

@erikthredd said:

@DeutscherGeist said:

@JoeBanzai said:
Really, are you drunk? You don't seem to have a basic comprehension of how auctions work. I'll explain it to you. You have a bid of $50.00 in on an item you want, the item is at $20.00. Another guy bids a few times. Now it's at $45.00. He outbids you and then retracts. THIS IS BAD!

How many times do you bid on something mistakenly? People retract their bids to find out how much the actual bid is or the reserve. Since they have no intention of actually buying the item they won't be returning it right?

In any "real" auction, you must honor any bid you place or you are banned. The same thing should happen with ebay. But that would COST them fees.

In the case where the guy that outbids another participant and then retracts, the auction goes back to as if the person never existed. In your example, the auction would go back to $20, not stay at $45. So, the scenario that you describe is incomplete. If it would stay at $45, then that is a big problem, but it does not.

Not if the retractor bids in $5 increments until he surpasses your $50 bid,sees that he's now the highest bidder then retracts that last $5 bid putting him back in 2nd place at $45. That scenario happens all of the time and these guys retracting get away with it.

OK, that last scenario is gaming the system for selfish reasons. That is plain wrong! I am only referring to a scenario where a bid is made in error or the wrong amount is entered and the individual immediately retracts the bid and makes the correct one soon after. I am not referring to bidding incrementally to see what the reserve is and all that stuff.

thedutymon11

@dustinspeaks said:
I didn't say bid retractions were good. So I hope you're not talking about my comment.

If I see something I think is worth 200 dollars and it's sitting at 20 dollars why wouldn't I bid 80 bucks? It helps out the seller, right? It helps out the market, right? My bid is the same as yours. If I win under 80 bucks great. But, I know I probably won't. And I'm not going to fight over the item. This is bidding to not win. If I were bidding to win I'd bid a lot closer to or more than what I think the item is worth. Do you bid what you think the item is worth? Or do you bid low? Has nothing to do with integrity. STILL SO MUCH BS I can't even formulate a comeback! The Rational behind this tells someone all about your strength of Character, Oh excuse me, mispoke, Lack thereof is what I meant!

I don't do the phone a friend thing. I'm just saying everybody on earth has that option. No way around it. I nearly never run auctions. When I post I post Buy It Now. When I do list auctions it's usually cheaper stuff.

In the case of the store owner bidding to save my item. He made me offers on some of the stuff he saved after the bids came down. I don't see the issue with him bidding. And, he did a nice thing by not making me honor his bid and instead making me an offer.

The Sound of Backpedaling becomes a Roar!!!

YeeHah!

Neil

erikthredd

@DeutscherGeist said:

@erikthredd said:

@DeutscherGeist said:

@JoeBanzai said:
Really, are you drunk? You don't seem to have a basic comprehension of how auctions work. I'll explain it to you. You have a bid of $50.00 in on an item you want, the item is at $20.00. Another guy bids a few times. Now it's at $45.00. He outbids you and then retracts. THIS IS BAD!

How many times do you bid on something mistakenly? People retract their bids to find out how much the actual bid is or the reserve. Since they have no intention of actually buying the item they won't be returning it right?

In any "real" auction, you must honor any bid you place or you are banned. The same thing should happen with ebay. But that would COST them fees.

In the case where the guy that outbids another participant and then retracts, the auction goes back to as if the person never existed. In your example, the auction would go back to $20, not stay at $45. So, the scenario that you describe is incomplete. If it would stay at $45, then that is a big problem, but it does not.

Not if the retractor bids in $5 increments until he surpasses your $50 bid,sees that he's now the highest bidder then retracts that last $5 bid putting him back in 2nd place at $45. That scenario happens all of the time and these guys retracting get away with it.

OK, that last scenario is gaming the system for selfish reasons. That is plain wrong! I am only referring to a scenario where a bid is made in error or the wrong amount is entered and the individual immediately retracts the bid and makes the correct one soon after. I am not referring to bidding incrementally to see what the reserve is and all that stuff.

Saw this mentioned elsewhere, this buyer has 1700+ retractions over the past 6 months. This guy should be kicked off ebay but it will never happen.
https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&amp;mode=1&amp;item=383655751871&amp;bidtid=1107774749025&amp;_trksid=p2471758.m4792&amp;ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5335829740%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Foffer.ebay.com%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewBidderProfile%2526mode%253D1%2526item%253D383655751871%2526bidtid%253D1107774749025%2526_trksid%253Dp2471758.m4792%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2549115294807%26rvr_ts%3Dd55e8e411730a99b9e4207e8ffbbdc90

Horse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4

72Collector

Saw this mentioned elsewhere, this buyer has 1700+ retractions over the past 6 months. This guy should be kicked off ebay but it will never happen.
https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&amp;mode=1&amp;item=383655751871&amp;bidtid=1107774749025&amp;_trksid=p2471758.m4792&amp;ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5335829740%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Foffer.ebay.com%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewBidderProfile%2526mode%253D1%2526item%253D383655751871%2526bidtid%253D1107774749025%2526_trksid%253Dp2471758.m4792%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2549115294807%26rvr_ts%3Dd55e8e411730a99b9e4207e8ffbbdc90

47% of the retractions are for Probstein auctions which could mean that he's a huge consigner who shill bids on his own auctions.

NGS428

All the more reason to set what your max is and snipe it. Never understood bidding any other way.

daltex

@72Collector said:

Saw this mentioned elsewhere, this buyer has 1700+ retractions over the past 6 months. This guy should be kicked off ebay but it will never happen.
https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&amp;mode=1&amp;item=383655751871&amp;bidtid=1107774749025&amp;_trksid=p2471758.m4792&amp;ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5335829740%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Foffer.ebay.com%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewBidderProfile%2526mode%253D1%2526item%253D383655751871%2526bidtid%253D1107774749025%2526_trksid%253Dp2471758.m4792%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2549115294807%26rvr_ts%3Dd55e8e411730a99b9e4207e8ffbbdc90

47% of the retractions are for Probstein auctions which could mean that he's a huge consigner who shill bids on his own auctions.

53% of 1700 auctions is an awful lot of non-Probstein retractions.

erikthredd

@daltex said:

@72Collector said:

Saw this mentioned elsewhere, this buyer has 1700+ retractions over the past 6 months. This guy should be kicked off ebay but it will never happen.
https://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&amp;mode=1&amp;item=383655751871&amp;bidtid=1107774749025&amp;_trksid=p2471758.m4792&amp;ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-53200-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5335829740%26toolid%3D10001%26mpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Foffer.ebay.com%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewBidderProfile%2526mode%253D1%2526item%253D383655751871%2526bidtid%253D1107774749025%2526_trksid%253Dp2471758.m4792%26srcrot%3D711-53200-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2549115294807%26rvr_ts%3Dd55e8e411730a99b9e4207e8ffbbdc90

47% of the retractions are for Probstein auctions which could mean that he's a huge consigner who shill bids on his own auctions.

53% of 1700 auctions is an awful lot of non-Probstein retractions.

That 53% goes towards his PWCC consigned auctions lol.

JoeBanzai

@erikthredd said:

@DeutscherGeist said:

@JoeBanzai said:
Really, are you drunk? You don't seem to have a basic comprehension of how auctions work. I'll explain it to you. You have a bid of $50.00 in on an item you want, the item is at $20.00. Another guy bids a few times. Now it's at $45.00. He outbids you and then retracts. THIS IS BAD!

How many times do you bid on something mistakenly? People retract their bids to find out how much the actual bid is or the reserve. Since they have no intention of actually buying the item they won't be returning it right?

In any "real" auction, you must honor any bid you place or you are banned. The same thing should happen with ebay. But that would COST them fees.

In the case where the guy that outbids another participant and then retracts, the auction goes back to as if the person never existed. In your example, the auction would go back to $20, not stay at $45. So, the scenario that you describe is incomplete. If it would stay at $45, then that is a big problem, but it does not.

Not if the retractor bids in $5 increments until he surpasses your $50 bid,sees that he's now the highest bidder then retracts that last $5 bid putting him back in 2nd place at $45. That scenario happens all of the time and these guys retracting get away with it.

EXACTLY!!!!!

JoeBanzai

@DeutscherGeist said:

@erikthredd said:

@DeutscherGeist said:

@JoeBanzai said:
Really, are you drunk? You don't seem to have a basic comprehension of how auctions work. I'll explain it to you. You have a bid of $50.00 in on an item you want, the item is at $20.00. Another guy bids a few times. Now it's at $45.00. He outbids you and then retracts. THIS IS BAD!

How many times do you bid on something mistakenly? People retract their bids to find out how much the actual bid is or the reserve. Since they have no intention of actually buying the item they won't be returning it right?

In any "real" auction, you must honor any bid you place or you are banned. The same thing should happen with ebay. But that would COST them fees.

In the case where the guy that outbids another participant and then retracts, the auction goes back to as if the person never existed. In your example, the auction would go back to $20, not stay at $45. So, the scenario that you describe is incomplete. If it would stay at $45, then that is a big problem, but it does not.

Not if the retractor bids in $5 increments until he surpasses your $50 bid,sees that he's now the highest bidder then retracts that last $5 bid putting him back in 2nd place at $45. That scenario happens all of the time and these guys retracting get away with it.

OK, that last scenario is gaming the system for selfish reasons. That is plain wrong! I am only referring to a scenario where a bid is made in error or the wrong amount is entered and the individual immediately retracts the bid and makes the correct one soon after. I am not referring to bidding incrementally to see what the reserve is and all that stuff.

If a person is too stupid or obsessed with auctions and can't comprehend that he/she is confirming their bid they should not be bidding in the first place.

There's no legitimate reason for retractions.