Would you Touch a $100K Pack that was Unauthenticated?
thedutymon11
Posts: 668 ✭✭✭✭
Good Morning,
There is a gentlemen on the Vintage Non Sports Forums who claims to have some pretty Rare and Unseen Wax packs. The Highlight being the 1962 Topps Mars Attacks. Now I am not in any way questioning the veracity of this guys packs, but a rough estimate of the Mars Attacks pack alone would bring 100K to perhaps a Million $$$$! To not have it Graded and Authenticated would seem to me at least to be Leaving major money on the table! Or perhaps these are just his way of showing off with no real intention to sell? He says it is one of only two that exist, Don't know, have never even seen one (Although there have been Rumors of one for years), have never even seen a Real Wrapper!
He claims to have the following list which can be viewed at the National at his Booth in Dec. He also states that:
NOTE that until the grading of unopened wax packs is perfected (if ever that occurs), I choose to continue to keep all of my packs raw and ungraded. You can review all of my remaining packs at this year’s National Sports Collectors Convention (Dec. 12-16, 2020) in Atlantic City , or should that event be cancelled, next summer in Chicago at the next National.
Would you Touch a UnAuthenticated Wax Pack like these? I know I wouldn't!
1- 1948 Bowman Basketball (First year Bowman)
2- 1950 Bowman Football
3- 1952 Bowman Football
4- 1953 Bowman Football
5- 1954 Bowman Football
6- 1954/55 Topps Hockey (First year Topps)
7- 1957 Topps Baseball
8- 1959 Topps 3 Stooges
9- 1961/62 Topps Hockey
10- 1961 Topps Football
11- 1962 Topps Mars Attacks (One of two known) (Holy Grail)
12- 1962/63 Parkhurst Hockey
13- 1962/63 Parkhurst Hockey
14- 1962 Topps Baseball
15- 1964 Topps Football
16- 1964 Topps Football
17- 1964 Topps Outer Limits
18- 1965 Topps Football
19- 1965 Topps Baseball (Fifth series)
20- 1966 Topps Football
21- 1966 Topps Football
22- 1965/66 Topps Hockey
23- 1966/67 Topps Hockey
24- 1966/67 Topps Hockey
25- 1967 Leaf Star Trek (One of four known)
26- 1967 Topps Wacky Packages (Cracked Animals back) One of one known (Holy Grail)
27- 1968 Topps Baseball (Second series – Nolan Ryan?)
28- 1968/69 Topps Hockey
29- 1968/69 OPeeChee Hockey
30- 1969/70 OPeeChee Hockey
31- 1969/70 OPeeChee Hockey Series 2
Thanks
YeeHah!
Neil
Comments
If they're at the National, couldn't one just pay Steve to come over and check them out before a purchase?
I also saw a guy with packs like you described last year at the national. With ones like 1953 Bowman Baseball and all the others. All fake. Steve was like 50 yards away as well. No clue if same guy. But there is a guy with a lot of super rare packs. Some won’t grade because of the gum as an excuses as well. Like broken but still looked fake as well.
I am going to assume this is the same guy? And they were all fakes? I which way, has the technology of counterfeiting gotten to the point where the Wrappers can be forged as well?
YeeHah!
Neil
No wrappers looked legit. He just took his time finding high grade wrappers I guess. And you can find gum from non sports packs for cheap
No. I'm not an expert by any means, but I think the first sealed boxes came out in 1989.
that is an impressive list of packs.
Sounds like the seller with SS initials.
That why I asked, a 1962 Mars Attacks (Real) wrapper I have heard would be in the $50K-$250K alone, so I would have reservations that it wasn't a Fake wrapper, aged! Seems at those prices we are Looking at like Art Forgery, worth the investment to be able to Forge a Wrapper! Whereas the 1967 Star Trek Leaf Wrappers can be had all day for $100-$150 on Fee-Bay!
YeeHah!
Neil
For those, like me, who were wondering:
Sounds like same guy at the National. Had like 41 Playball or 49 Leaf and 55 Bowman or something just nuts like that. All was garbage
No , But I have a few friends in the printing industry and they say by Old Standards, Meaning pre 2000, it would take an investment in machinery ect. Or at least access to the same. By todays standard....who knows? Could probably fake a Wrapper so easy it would surprise you, just get the right Paper stock and Viola...... Faked Wrapper! Has anyone ever seen an actual case of Wrappers being Faked?
And Detroitfan2....is Provenance a better word to use?
Before you have to look it up
Provenance:
The place of origin or earliest known history of something.
‘an orange rug of Iranian provenance’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1The beginning of something's existence; something's origin.
‘they try to understand the whole universe, its provenance and fate’
More example sentences
1.2A record of ownership of a work of art or an antique, used as a guide to authenticity or quality.
‘the manuscript has a distinguished provenance’
YeeHah!
Neil
Id touch it. With something. 😀
depends on the meaning of “sealed”.
tape, stickers. etc would definitely push that back a few more years.
granted easy to bypass today bc of age and breakdown, but those tiffany stickers were a pretty good seal back in the day and very easy to show tampering when they were fresh.
https://allvintagecards.com/collecting-vintage-wax-packs/
i wouldnt touch a pack like that without steves approval
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
If the same guy, I talked to him at National. Asked him why not authenticated. He said we didn't need a 3rd party to tell him the packs were real. whatever.
Morning,
I was there (At the National) the year I watched them march several Dealers out in Handcuffs. Why wouldn't this kind of Pond Scum be treated the same?
YeeHah!
Neil
i have a few packs of 69T BBK tall boy packs, I guess they are as good as gold too?
I sure would love to open a 1966 Topps Football again. Last time I opened one I paid a nickel for it.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
No
Join the Rookie stars on top PSA registry today:
1980-1989 Cello Packs - Rookies
Must be the same guy that was at the National. Been bounced from a few facebook groups. IMO those packs are completely fake. I looked at them at the National and was shocked the promoters would allow them to be offered.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
It's nice to know that scammers in the hobby are appropriately dealt with.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Not often enough
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Jenny has some really nice cards available on the forum!
Make sure you wash your hands really good with hot water and soap after.
Interesting post. Forgive me for not responding sooner, but I just read this. If you really think that I have the patience to open and reseal packs to make money at age 71, then I challenge you to bring over an expert to investigate my packs at any National. I would be open to having anyone but BBCE to do that as long as that person is not in anyway a competitor; that person should have no interest in selling packs ever, and there is no proof whatsoever that the chosen individual has ever sold packs. I would also want to know in advance who you are bringing over so I can investigate their credentials. I would want to be able to record that investigation and would want all parties to agree to do that.
"Asked him why not authenticated. He said we didn't need a 3rd party to tell him the packs were real. whatever." I have just never said that and what I have said is that PSA ruins packs by stuffing them into their holders. That is why I don't grade my packs. I have also said that if there were a grading service that takes human involvement out of the equation then I become interested.
I also request that GRIFFINS come to my booth in Chicago, identify himself and show me what makes him think my packs are fake. I will take the time away from other customers and be open to his comments and suggestions. I have looked at his impressive display of packs and boxes in the past and would also like to point out that many of his packs were graded by GAI; need I say more about how suspicious those packs are and I would advise getting them regraded or left raw.
Not that it matters but I have sold a large quantity of packs to long time customers, investors and pack breakers, and I have only had one pack that ever went to PSA identified as being "suspect" and that was almost ten years ago, and my pack connection was not around at that time. It actually came from an unopened box that I had bought many years earlier, and all of the other packs from that box had been graded by collectors and were fine.
What else can I do? You guys have convicted and hung me before even giving me a chance to prove my innocence. In fact, I am almost 100% certain that some of you will dissect my post, point out things that you object to, and post your own cute comments and just throw more fuel to the fire.
Steve -- Dynamictwo@aol.com