BBCE Low on 80's Inventory

miller777

It sure seems as if the selection of 1980's- 1987's baseball has dwindeled to a very small choice. The 70's inventory is even smaller. Think he is holding back? Perhaps for the National? While I have purchased my fair share through the board group buys and through Rick directly, I feel like I should of bought more. 1980 packs at $75? Holy cow! 1983 Topps Wax at $800!

ArtVandelay

I think the inventory is purposely low. Steve's been dealing with health issues so I believe they decided to pull stuff back until he's 100%.

miller777

Ya Steve, not Rick. Just had my 65th b'day, sorry.

grote15

He's had stuff lately but it flies off the shelf/site as soon as he lists it. The unopened market is white hot right now.

76collector

Agree with Tim. I just bought a little cache of 78-86 topps. Its a hot market right now.

blurryface

Insert any number of supply and demand ad nauseam here.

cougar701

My experience with unopened both personally and watching rips on Youtube, I don't see a good return on investment in it when you are going to open it. Basically, just a fun factor equation to me...is pack/box opening experience worth the $X asking price? If yes, buy it. If, no, pass. Same argument as the lottery.
However, investing and keeping it to turn it around later(years later) is a totally different story and not sure I have the correct data points to consider what if any unopened is a good investment.

For those investing only(not ripping) what do you consider when deciding on buying unopened?

jordangretzkyfan

@cougar701 said:

For those investing only(not ripping) what do you consider when deciding on buying unopened?

1) does the year/brand have an iconic rookie in it?
2) is the box clean and wrapped by BBCE?
3) is it the most appealing form (I.e. wax)?
4) will supply be perceived as limited in the future?

Those are the key factors I ask myself when buying unopened.

cougar701

@jordangretzkyfan

Based on the above thoughts... can you dive a little deeper and evaluate an example for me like 2008 Topps Updates & Highlights unopened box?

Kershaw & Scherzer - almost certainly future HoFers
Consider you're buying a factory sealed box of course, but not necessarily from BBCE

ndleo

BBCE had some nice deals on early 1990's FB Boxes. I'm talking Select, Zenith, Pacific, etc. It seems as if the prices have been at these levels FOREVER.

Just like the early 1990's basketball getting hot this year, it seems like every dog has its day in our hobby.

ReggieCleveland

@ndleo said:
BBCE had some nice deals on early 1990's FB Boxes. I'm talking Select, Zenith, Pacific, etc. It seems as if the prices have been at these levels FOREVER.

Just like the early 1990's basketball getting hot this year, it seems like every dog has its day in our hobby.

Every dog except 90s football. It is impervious to demand. I've been picking up cards for the same prices for years now. Manning rookies have seen a bump but even those were moderate and limited to certain brands. Nobody cares about 1990s football, and I'm fine with that.

Arthur

miller777

So everything I have been buying from BBCE over the last 10 years has been kept unopened, and I guess that is what has changed so much. The mid to late 80's topps is pretty much unavailable in bulk (box & case) form. Even like packs of 1980's topps that I paid $10-$12 for are now $75. Boxes of 1983 that I purchased over the years are 3 X the price. And those 75 minis are now going for serious cash. So when BBCE ships, they wrap in their tape and then put the shipping label over it. When I would receive these purchases, I would write the contents of the box on that box. My question is; are these purchases considered the same as BBCE wrapped/untampered with product? They are still sealed by BBCE and are considered unsearch. What do you think?

1957Braves

@miller777 said:
So everything I have been buying from BBCE over the last 10 years has been kept unopened, and I guess that is what has changed so much. The mid to late 80's topps is pretty much unavailable in bulk (box & case) form. Even like packs of 1980's topps that I paid $10-$12 for are now $75. Boxes of 1983 that I purchased over the years are 3 X the price. And those 75 minis are now going for serious cash. So when BBCE ships, they wrap in their tape and then put the shipping label over it. When I would receive these purchases, I would write the contents of the box on that box. My question is; are these purchases considered the same as BBCE wrapped/untampered with product? They are still sealed by BBCE and are considered unsearch. What do you think?

Not quite. While I’m sure you’re writing the correct contents, it would be hard for someone to take your word for it on the contents without seeing them. A box of 1991 Score easily becomes a box of 1986 Fleer basketball with some writing in the box.

grote15

@miller777 said:
So everything I have been buying from BBCE over the last 10 years has been kept unopened, and I guess that is what has changed so much. The mid to late 80's topps is pretty much unavailable in bulk (box & case) form. Even like packs of 1980's topps that I paid $10-$12 for are now $75. Boxes of 1983 that I purchased over the years are 3 X the price. And those 75 minis are now going for serious cash. So when BBCE ships, they wrap in their tape and then put the shipping label over it. When I would receive these purchases, I would write the contents of the box on that box. My question is; are these purchases considered the same as BBCE wrapped/untampered with product? They are still sealed by BBCE and are considered unsearch. What do you think?

No, because anyone can switch out the packs, unless you are selling the sealed BBCE box with its contents inside.

1957Braves

With this dramatic run up, I’m concerned about scammers getting their own fake BBCE wrap and putting out fake boxes as most boxes are going to stay untouched.

For rack boxes, can any of us tell the difference between a 1978 and a 1984 box just from the outside?

A sticker label can also be printed that can be very carefully put over the existing label, making it FASC or whatever.

grote15

@1957Braves said:
With this dramatic run up, I’m concerned about scammers getting their own fake BBCE wrap and putting out fake boxes as most boxes are going to stay untouched.

For rack boxes, can any of us tell the difference between a 1978 and a 1984 box just from the outside?

A sticker label can also be printed that can be very carefully put over the existing label, making it FASC or whatever.

1978 and 1984, yes, because Topps used 1978 rack boxes from 1977 through 1979.

1957Braves

I meant except for you, Tim. The less enlightened of may not be able to tell the difference, or not do erase history before an expensive purchase trusting that the BBCE wrap and label are correct.

I have no evidence this is happening, but I’m sure it’s cooking in someone’s brain.

grote15

@1957Braves said:
I meant except for you, Tim. The less enlightened of may not be able to tell the difference, or not do erase history before an expensive purchase trusting that the BBCE wrap and label are correct.

I have no evidence this is happening, but I’m sure it’s cooking in someone’s brain.

I have actually seen BBCE labels on which FASC was forged~in the early days when BBCE wrapped only their own inventory, they often left that second line blank~but it is fairly easy to spot as the BBCE handwriting is pretty distinct over the years.

I think as the BBCE authentication process continues to evolve over time~we've come a long way from plain shrinkwrap with a simple business card underneath~you will continue to see Steve implement measures to keep the crooks and scammers at bay.

cougar701

Hey All - Is the factory shrink wrap with the 'Topps' print on the plastic for example not a good indicator of authentic anymore? What are the latest challenges on this?

ReggieCleveland

@cougar701 said:
Hey All - Is the factory shrink wrap with the 'Topps' print on the plastic for example not a good indicator of authentic anymore? What are the latest challenges on this?

You're talking about newer product. BBCE will wrap the older stuff that didn't come sealed from Topps.

But you should still be aware of what you're buying. I've spent the last few years collecting 2000-2018 unopened and it's important to know what the branding pattern, branding size, and seal placements should be on some of the more expensive Trout stuff. I've seen resealed product (especially retail) on the expensive years.

Who wants retail, right? Well, if there's a hierarchy, Target Red is at the top.

Also, for a very long time the unsold retail product would get purchased by a third party and rewrapped for discount sales. It's important to know when this took place and what those third-party wrappings look and feel like. Most will have the original Topps branding but it's more art than science.

Arthur

cougar701

Thanks, Arthur. Yes, I was speaking to the newer stuff that would naturally help a typically buyer who may not want to always go through BBCE per se. I've been looking at some 80's Topps traded sets where the very old tape is still in one piece and clearly still holding tight and unbroken. I don't feel like there is much point to having those BBCE authenticated or paying extra when its very easily apparent its still unopened. When buying the 1952 Topps unopened packs...you bet your arse, I'm going through someone like BBCE/PSA and paying a premium for their expertise. Same thing one would do when buying an exotic sports car - always pay for a pre-purchase inspection through an authorized dealer or 3rd party equivalent.

softparade

What grote said, he can't keep desirable stuff on the shelves. It disappears within hours every time. Even as he continues to raise prices. There has to be a evening out on prices sooner than later but this stuff isn't going to sit on his shelves regardless.

miller777

@grote15 said:

@miller777 said:
So everything I have been buying from BBCE over the last 10 years has been kept unopened, and I guess that is what has changed so much. The mid to late 80's topps is pretty much unavailable in bulk (box & case) form. Even like packs of 1980's topps that I paid $10-$12 for are now $75. Boxes of 1983 that I purchased over the years are 3 X the price. And those 75 minis are now going for serious cash. So when BBCE ships, they wrap in their tape and then put the shipping label over it. When I would receive these purchases, I would write the contents of the box on that box. My question is; are these purchases considered the same as BBCE wrapped/untampered with product? They are still sealed by BBCE and are considered unsearch. What do you think?

No, because anyone can switch out the packs, unless you are selling the sealed BBCE box with its contents inside.

That's what I am talking about. The contents inside the sealed box are not wrapped, but the shipping box is wrapped and the original shipping label is on top of the tape. I know that means the contents must be sold as a whole lot. Once I open, then it is not certified as BBCE material. But would you purchase say an unopened box of 1981 & 1983 Topps from me if these products were still shipped in the sealed shipping box? I suppose you would want to open it as BBCE sealed and you could not open and individually sell at that point. But is this box considered BBCE verified and wrapped at this point?

jordangretzkyfan

@miller777 said:

That's what I am talking about. The contents inside the sealed box are not wrapped, but the shipping box is wrapped and the original shipping label is on top of the tape. I know that means the contents must be sold as a whole lot. Once I open, then it is not certified as BBCE material. But would you purchase say an unopened box of 1981 & 1983 Topps from me if these products were still shipped in the sealed shipping box? I suppose you would want to open it as BBCE sealed and you could not open and individually sell at that point. But is this box considered BBCE verified and wrapped at this point?

I would ship your packages back to Steve still sealed and ask if he can wrap them for you. There is no way for a buyer to verify what you say is in the shipping box is actually in there without opening the shipping box. Therefore, I don’t think your potential buyers are likely to pay a premium for them, since they will be opening the shipping case and be left with unwrapped boxes.

grote15

Steve cannot wrap individual packs due to his contract with PSA. He can wrap boxes (and racks and trays) but if you have full boxes in these shipping boxes, then it shouldn't matter anyway as those boxes are likely already wrapped and authenticated by BBCE inside the box anyway.

miller777

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input.