Joe Carter ~ does he eventually get into the MLB HOF?
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Joe Carter had a penchant for huge game winning hits in big spots like the WS..... he drove in 98 runs or more 11 years in his career.... had a 200 hit season and was one of the biggest stars in his generation...... Does he get in ever?
Joe Carter ~ does he eventually get into the MLB HOF?
This is a public poll: others will see what you voted for.
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Comments
We have yet to see the impact of the Harold Baines induction lowering the bar ... so it’s a definite possibility for Joe.
I don’t think he makes the HOF despite some iconic moments in his career. That 1984D PSA 10 is sick though. Great and very challenging card!
Personally I think Carter was a better player than Baines, but he still doesn't get in.
I've lost faith in the Baseball Hall of Fame anyway. They keep Fred McGriff out? It's a joke.
I hit the "yes" button..... looked at his stats .... he compares to so many in the HOF on that lower tier... Orlando Cepeda-ish.....
MLB does reward those iconic moments as well..... WS winner being a feather for sure. Bill Mazeroski was not HOF IMO....and there are quite a few.... the lowering of the "bar" didn't just happen with Harold Baines.
This is how the inside of the Hall of Fame building should look.
Depends - does Tony La Russa like Joe Carter?
I'm a Carter fan, but I really doubt he ever gets in.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
he needs help from his former teammates that are in the hall of fame to get his name on the modern or todays game ballot to get his name on the list to vote in. I also agree that it is a shame that fred McGriff is not in the hall of fame.
Mcgriff will get in....
He’s in the same category at McGriff and Delgado. Each of which I think was better than Carter. I wouldn’t mind seeing all 3 get in though. Definitely wouldn’t upset me.
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Nowhere near as good as Cepeda and didn't have the extended career like Baines.
I don't see why he would get serious consideration. Kind of a short career. Needed a few more years like 1986 imo.
Mcgriff and Delgado merit strong consideration. I wouldn't quite put Carter in the same category, but he was a nice player SLG a little low.
Delgado looks pretty good and doesn't get talked about too much. Solid BA, OBP and SLG. almost a 300-400-500 guy. GREAT SLG. Only 13 full seasons prolly hurts him.
Not in my opinion but that's a great 84 Donruss
He is not a HOF player.
WAR isn't my favorite statistic but he had a career 17.1 WAR.
Delgado falling off after one season is one of the most surprising things ever.
No way. That would be even a little worse than Baines.
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Carter wasn't anywhere near the player Baines was.
Only having 13 full seasons almost makes it more impressive for me with Delgado. He had 457 homeruns and 1454 rbi in those 13 seasons. Thats averaging 35 homeruns and 112 rbi per season for over a decade. Pretty solid.
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This isn't a Baines Vs. Carter thread. The two are vastly different players.
Carter had more power and far more speed than Baines.
Baines was a much better OBP and OPS player.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
As noted, the induction of Harold Baines means virtually anything is now possible; I've got my hopes up for Gene Tenace.
Consider the people in the HOF solely as hitters (i.e., forget Ozzie, Maz, Maranville, and all the old-time catchers and virtually every middle infielder. Here is the OPS+ of the one's mentioned so far in this thread:
Delgado: 138 (minus even a rudimentary ability to field a baseball)
McGriff: 134 (no pluses or minuses)
Cepeda: 133 (plus a ROY and an MVP)
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Baines: 121 (exactly the same as Chili Davis who was every bit as good as Baines)
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I'll pause on my way down here to say I'm fine with Cepeda being in the HOF, but I consider him to be where I would set the floor. An OPS+ of 133 is pretty low to qualify as "great", but the ROY and the MVP (both deserved, or at least not undeserved) boost his HOF credentials. Delgado and McGriff were slightly better hitters, but since they couldn't actually play baseball - they could only play the hitting part of the game - I think Cepeda is far more deserving of the HOF than either of them.
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I'll pause again on my way down to the cellar to note Dave Kingman and Ron Fairly each had an OPS+ of 117
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One last pause to note George Highpockets Kelly and his OPS+ of 109. Kelly is pretty much universally acknowledged as the worst hitter in the HOF (leaving aside the small group only in the HOF for their fielding). Entire books have been written about what a travesty it was when Kelly was inducted into the HOF.
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Joe freaking Carter: 105
Joe Carter, also lacking even a rudimentary ability to field a baseball and never coming close to winning (or deserving) any awards, was not even a "good" hitter. In addition to his mediocre 105 OPS+, his win probability added for his entire career was 2.1. The difference between having Joe Carter on your team vs. a random collection of average hitters who also couldn't field was 2.1 wins out of 2,189 games played. Find an average hitter who can actually field, and he's better than Carter.
The answer to the OP question is "yes", Carter will eventually make the HOF, because eventually someone who likes him as much as LaRussa likes Baines will put him in. And when that day comes, the HOF will have a new worst player, and a bar so low that it will be very hard to lower it any further.
I doubt it. He's loathed by sabermetrically inclined voters who make up a larger and larger part of the pool every year. If he makes it, it will be via the Vets Committee.
No
Tony Fernandez has a higher WAR than Carlos Delgado. There are many excellent players who go unappreciated. Carter's WAR is off the charts terrible though, even the undeserving Harold Baines has more than double the WAR of Joe Carter. I do remember one summer when Joe Carter was the best hitter in baseball so he kind of has that in common with Delgado.
One of my absolute favorite baseball cards though!
saucywombat@hotmail.com
WAR is often a HORRIBLE way to compare players, as it is in the Delgado/Fernandez comparison.
From Wikipedia: "WAR value also depends on what position a player plays, with more value going to weaker hitting positions like catcher than positions with strong hitting such as first base."
One could come back with a MVP comparison; Delgado came in 2nd, 4th, 6th and 9th during his career. Fernandez had one top 10 finish at #8. Delgado is listed at 153rd Career Shares and Fernandez at 704th.
I must agree that Fernandez is unappreciated. He did win 4 GG and was a pretty good hitting SS.
What stands out to me is Delgado, at a sluggers position (maybe THE sluggers position) comes in at #10 ALL TIME.
His OPS is one point higher than Albert Puhols. Of course over a much shorter time.
There needs to be an "I really hope the bar doesn't get lowered that far, but it's possible" option.
He was mediocre for a longer period of time than some who are in, but Harold Baines, not to mention Chili Davis, was a LOT better than Joe Carter. Which is to say, if and when Carter gets in, he will be the worst hitter in the HOF by a country mile, at least among those in the HOF for their hitting. Any player responsible for winning fewer games with his bat than Lee Lacy really should never be mentioned in the same breath as the HOF.
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saucywombat@hotmail.com
it's possible but very unlikely.
I would like to see Dale Murphy make the hall before Carter.
I would like to see Tuffy Rhodes make the hall before Carter.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Carter did have some mediocre years, but also 10 years of 100+ RBI’s, far more than Davis or Baines. He also had more post season success and a clutch homer in the W.S. His career BA was lower than I thought, but I think he is a tad better than Baines was and better than Davis overall. Carter was also in the top 20 MVP ballot 8 times while Davis was in 3 times, plus Carter was an All Star 5 times, Davis 3.
My top 10 most deserving of HoF consideration
Dave Parker was one of the best players in baseball for a 5 year period. Some real good players in this group.
that's a good list of players.
Where's Dwight Evans? He was arguably better than all those guys.
Yep, great list. I'd add Evans and Dale Murphy.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
I like his list as well. Agree that Murphy should also be included.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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That is a nice top 10 list and is likely a few of them will get inducted in the next few years.
In my opinion, I think Dick Allen is the best of the bunch, but ranking him #3 is reasonable.
McGriff should eventually make it, but from a psychological viewpoint, missing 500 home runs by 7 is just nerve wracking to see.
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Tell that to Mitch Williams lol
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I agree. Carter had some awesome moments in the spotlight, but I think Baines had a longer stretch of consistency in his game.
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Dale Murphy has to be in the top 10 not in.
I don’t see the argument that Baines was WAY above Carter. It’s a fair comparison. And I’d say Carters apex was higher.
Joe Carter is to RBIs what Dave Kingman was to HRs
saucywombat@hotmail.com
It's the "but also" that I'm taking exception to here. Carter had some years in which he was both less than mediocre and happened to drive in more than 100 runs. There's lots of ways to approach this, but consider this:
Over the course of their careers, Carter drove in 16.7% of the runners on base ahead of him, Baines drove in 17.3%. Carter had more seasons of 100+ RBI than Baines because, and only because, Carter had more people on base to drive in than Baines did. Have them switch places, and it's Baines with 10 or 11 100+ RBI seasons, and Carter with 1 or 2; and it would still be the case that neither one of them was close to a HOF level player.
Carter was mediocre in 1987 and drove in 106; he was bad in 1990 and drove in 115; he was absolutely putrid in 1997 and drove in 102. Whatever you are looking at that tells you Joe Carter was better than Dave Kingman, stop looking at it; Kingman was better, and Kingman wasn't very good.
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I'll go with
One player I havn't heard much about on these boards at all and I always wondered why they didn't get more consideration for the HOF, is Bill Freehan. I personally don't know a ton about him, but looking at his bio he was an 11 time all star including 10 in a row and won 5 gold gloves. His offensive stats don't blow you away, but he is 15th all time in WAR among catchers. The only catchers ahead of him that are not in are Mauer (who will get in), Tenace and Munson. Only 6 catchers in the history of the game made more all star game appearances (Bench, Rodriguez, Piazza, Carter, Dickey and Fisk).
Does anyone have any info as to why he only got 0.5% of votes and dropped off on the first ballot?
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He has been discussed here, and many of us feel that Freehan would be a very nice addition the the HOF. You could make a case for him winning an MVP award in 1968.
He retired right around the time Killebrew did. Those voters didn't vote Killebrew in until 1984. No one knows what those idiots were doing, but Freehan should have gotten more attention.
I think Freehan should go in before Mauer. Mauer was a better hitter, but Freehan had an additional 657 games played at catcher and 12 years behind the plate compared to Mauer's 6 years.
Great thread here and as others are going OT with their own personal favourite players, I have to put in a plug for Dave Stieb.
I am also fascinated by players like Mattingly, Mark Grace, Will Clark, and Tommy John. Big players in their eras, good, long careers, Mattingly cut short by his back. Probably none of them get into the HOF, but for their era, they were a big deal.
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