Bumps on a China Fat Man Silver Dollar--Authenticity Issue?

airplanenut

It's been a long time since I handled one of these, and thinking back to when I had them frequently, I can't remember (but could be mistaken) seeing this bump effect. On the obverse, look in front of the nose, behind the neck, and above the most forward part of the chest. On the reverse, look at the tip of the leaf around 5:00 at the periphery. These don't appear to be damage since there's nothing on the opposite side. That would mean there were a bunch of depressions in the die to make bumps on the coin.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Jeremy

coinkat

Start by weighing the coin. Not trying to invent work, but you may also consider posting a picture of another example of the same date.

Namvet69

If it is authentic and not magnetic, could this be an example of an improper alloy mix? Peace Roy

YQQ

jeremy,
if you look long enough, there are also some bumps on the other side. Just not as pronounced.
I think it is a planchet issue.. perhaps uneven ???

Swampboy

I can't shed any light. When did counterfeits of the is coin first appear. Were they contemporary?
The condition of the coin in that fantastic photo hints to very old toning.
Looks like there's also graffiti dead center reverse.

airplanenut

@Swampboy said:
I can't shed any light. When did counterfeits of the is coin first appear. Were they contemporary?
The condition of the coin in that fantastic photo hints to very old toning.
Looks like there's also graffiti dead center reverse.

I agree that it has the right look (the toning may have been helped by a light wipe, but yes, it has the old, long-term look to it). I'm not sure when counterfeits first came out, but some of the recent ones are definitely well-made, and they have been getting better at making coins look aged (rather than just shiny, uncirculated examples). That said, among the circulated counterfeits I've seen, color has usually been limited to shades of grey.

@coinkat said:
Start by weighing the coin. Not trying to invent work, but you may also consider posting a picture of another example of the same date.

The weight checks out. I haven't been able to see a similar effect on another photo, but that's where the question of die issue vs. planchet issue vs. something else comes into play.

@YQQ said:
jeremy,
if you look long enough, there are also some bumps on the other side. Just not as pronounced.
I think it is a planchet issue.. perhaps uneven ???

That could well be. I'm still trying to think how a bump in the planchet wouldn't have gotten flattened during striking, but some of those do line up better than I thought on the first look.

YQQ

Jeremy,
think about a very minute bump being amplified perhaps by the light frequeny u uses togatehr with the Macro lens.
Is it actually visible with just eyes?

airplanenut

@YQQ said:
Jeremy,
think about a very minute bump being amplified perhaps by the light frequeny u uses togatehr with the Macro lens.
Is it actually visible with just eyes?

Very visible--I took the photos to show here because I saw the bumps when just holding the coin.

TurboSnail

you can always post at the link below and ask the collectors in Hong Kong. (most of them do understand English)
https://www.discuss.com.hk/forumdisplay.php?fid=785&page=1

or here and straight to the source, with a little help with google translation.
http://bbs.shouxi.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=17466&extra=page=1

Timbuk3

Yuan Shih Kai 1859-1916, looks good to me !!!

7Jaguars

Heat can sometimes contribute.....