Toned Peace Dollars
DRUNNER
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Brought about by the other contemporary thread on toning and my question at the end. We have hashed it out before, and discussions of rinsing techniques, storage methods, planchet prep, and others came to light. In time, when we get out again, I'll get this True-Viewed as my camera won't pick up the colors in the set-up I have now. The iridescent rainbows. particularly on the reverse, are certainly original, and somewhat impressive (yup . . . . . I remember we had a supposed quote from David Hall that there were NO originally toned Peace Dollars).
Presented for your inspection. Bad pix, but you can get an idea perhaps . . .
I have seen and coveted other Peace toners here on the Boards. If you are Coronabored, or otherwise interested, please of course, entertain us!
Drunner
Comments
To be fair, David Hall did not say that there are no originally toned Peace dollars. He said “...indeed any Peace dollar...that has any rainbow colors (blue, red, green, etc.) is absolutely artificially toned”.
For the record, I strongly disagree with his overly broad statement.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I like that toning and IMO it's natural.
Looks natural to me!
Here's a few toned Peace dollars in my collection. I believe all to be NT.
PCGS MS64
PCGS MS64
PCGS MS64
Here's a couple of my hundred or so toned peace dollars:
This is one of my favorite coins:
And while not nearly as colorful, considering its strike, good lustre, and toning, I'm a big fan of this high relief:
I struggle to capture the actual in-hand look. I had two nice NGC 64 toners - sold the lesser for the $330 on ebay a few years ago. Still sitting on the other one, in part because I like it and in part because I just can't seem to get a good pic to show its true colors...
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Maybe HRH was right, no rainbow toned Peace Dollars are real. But he exclaimed such a statement over 30 years ago! If you place a blast peace dollar in an envelope in 1990, and it is now beautifully rainbow toned, it possess real color. Those are my thoughts.
It looks like he stated it a lot more recently than 30 years ago - in 2009: https://www.pcgs.com/news/coinfacts-any-peace-dollar-with-rainbow-colors-is-artificially-toned
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld Cancel my comment. But I am in agreement with you, he was wrong.. about a lot of things.
Pretty peace dollar @DRUNNER !
U.S. Type Set
Hickoryridge has posted the peace dollar that Mr Hall. commented on. He said , if I remember correctly that most toned peace dollars in this post with toning are questionable but that IMO the toning on Toneddollars peace dolor is original
Rainbow Stars
I'd suggest a crack and dip, nothing the Weimans can't handle. Rid the nasty and make her beautiful again. Congrats!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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It's an interesting question with lots of theories and not much science. There are obviously huge differences in storage conditions, length of storage, and such.
A more interesting comparison to me is to consider Peace dollars and 1921 Morgans. Those Morgans don't really look like the Morgans of the 1880s, for instance. Even so, 1921 Morgans don't really tone like 1921 Peace dollars, and the planchets should have been identical.
Die prep, surface texture, "basining" of Morgan dies, relief of the design, and microscopic differences in metal flow, strain rates (strain hardening), and therefore surface "hardness" would be potential differences too. This could also account for why some coins tone nicely and others really don't. This is really evident in the classic commem series. I was discussing this with Larry Shepherd at the Long Beach show. He referred to some as "hard surface" coins that are qualitatively different in terms of luster and how they tone. I don't know if his comments were referencing actual metallurgical properties or just the subjective "look" of the coin, but most of us can conceptualize this.
So, in conclusion, I don't know...... there are differences and the why remains somewhat mysterious.
I never heard that before. What year did he say this as that is very important to know. I never saw toned peace dollars either and my father was a collector from the 1950's. He was of the same opinion. But a lot of time has gone past so perhaps with a little help...
BTW, when I was cleaning some of his collection, I left a peace dollar in some used MS-70 and the next day it was vividly toned an orange and deep blue. I realize that is not the same as a light rainbow.
He said it in 2009, as best I can tell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
ksuscott's dollar is insane. That's worth a large fortune.
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My set has some toners. The link should take you to my digital album.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/dollars/peace-dollars-circulation-strikes-1921-1935/album/176391
That gives the majority of peace dollars about ten years to become rainbow toned. While growing up, I never met a collector who liked toned coins of any kind. You just didn't see them. I guess most of the toned coins were in old collections of famous numismatists.
Didn’t toned Peace dollars make a strong appearance within the last two years? There were a couple of monster toners up for sale and I recall hearing reports of some appearing at shows? I do recall an article about a reference “to no evidence of NT Peace dollars.” That brings a question of “putting a Peace dollar in an envelope and putting it a drawer or window ledge for ten years”, isn’t that considered AT( helping it along)?
I would very much like to add some NT Peace dollars to my collection but I am leery due to what I have read, whether true or not.
FYI, the toned peace dollar hickoryridge posted can be traced back to the nineties.
Rainbow Stars
From where I sit, and I would like to think most, the answer is no. You may be setting up favorable settings but you aren’t predicting the result and you’re letting time do the work. You’re not accelerating the process or controlling the result. And it may not work at all.
The people who AT wouldn’t wait that long and they use more extreme methods that accomplish their intended result quickly.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
(yup . . . . . I remember we had a supposed quote from David Hall that there were NO originally toned Peace Dollars.)
Mark beat me to it, but HRH is often mis-quoted about this and other things. part of that is his fault in how he presents his knowledge but in this instance we each need to infer a little from our knowledge. what he was stating was given in the context and meant as comparison between toned Peace Dollars and toned Morgan Dollars, specifically the bag-toned Morgans with arcs and overall color that sometimes just glows.
in that regard he is pretty much 100% correct.
while there may be differences in terms of what BryceM posted, the most important factor is clearly the storage method, the contaminants involved and the length of exposure. Morgan Dollars were just stored in a more contaminant laden bag under enclosed condiditons for a longer period of time than Peace Dollars. that's pretty simple to understand.
This quote from David Hall gets regurgitated on these forums every year or so.
It's quite the generalization, with little supporting evidence besides "I never saw them before!".
Have posted before but will add it here too.
Collector, occasional seller
Nice coins Android01!
Thanks!
Great coin! Not as impressice as your morgan dollar. But your Peace is indeed pretty!
Just saw this one in the Regency 38 catalog. PCGS and CAC approved, but the toning seems somewhat unique to me. Any thoughts on how it would have toned this way?
Reminiscing about my old Peace set. One I used to own:
You are Toneddollars
Here's one with colors you dont see often
Hi Guys
Im pretty interested in your opinion about this 1923 liberty dollar coin I own:
--> AT or NT?
--> General condition?
--> Value?
--> Possibility to get rated at PCGS?
Thanks guys!
Welcome to the forum. My take on your coin is cleaned and AT.
I agree with this, there are a few AT, messed with or at best environmentally impacted Peace dollars so far on this thread but none as slam dunk not market acceptable as the 23 posted above. It is worth about 40s on ebay to a toning fan minus fees. PCGS might not even holder it let alone give it a grade.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
>
Unquestionably AT. Value would be roughly melt, sorry if that sounds harsh.
Collector, occasional seller
Thank you for your reply.
I see regarding AT is pretty obvious, but how you spot the cleaning?
I can't see the indications for this coin is cleaned
Any comments to the general preservation of the coin?
The high points of the devices have a somewhat burnished appearance to me. Also, the fields look a bit granular. I could be wrong, just giving my take. Generally, if someone is going to artificially tone a coin they will start with a lower value coin so as to minimize their potential loss should the effort come out badly. Why pay for a straight graded ms 65 dollar to tone when you can get a ms details coin for a steep discount? If the toning won’t sell the coin, you are out less. Just an opinion. Thanks
Edited for typo.
I like toned Peace Dollars that look like this
Some of the ones posted look bad to me because the colors don’t go with the overall design of the coin and they distract rather than enhance the design. The original post one looks ok on the reverse of the coin though because the coloration is so light it doesn’t distract from the design but the obverse I don’t like. Hopefully that makes sense. If all I want is to look at pretty coloration on silver I can look at a silver round or even a silver spoon, but toning on a coin isn’t nice unless it somehow enhances the design, which on many coins it sometimes does. But for peace dollars when they tone they tend to make libertys hair look somewhat Medusa like and make her portrait look freakish in a bad way. But probably I’m in the minority on this, it’s just my opinion
Mr_Spud