Help with lighting on my Rebel T6 and GTG

jesbroken

I've had a hell of a time with my new Rebel T6(mostly setup) and finally I pulled some Buffs out of inventory to try to get the light better than previous. I have improved but still need help. Also I would appreciate your GTG for these Buffs. I know the 35S is not much but still a GTG would help. These are all raw. Using a camera stand and 2 ott lites.
Thank you for your help
Jim

ChrisH821

As convenient as they are, I'm not really a fan of the Ott lights[Correction- I have the Jansjo lights, my memory can be terrible sometimes]. They are too point source and need to be diffused. I'm not sure what the best way to do that is, some people use ping pong balls cut in half, I think @dimeman suggested a white sock over them.
As for grades, I think 64ish on them.

TurtleCat

It depends on the Ott lights. Some are very nice. The ones I’m using already have some diffusion. Anyway, I think the problem is the lights are too far away and the camera’s meter is probably set to automatic. Put the camera in manual mode and lower the shutter speed to get the camera to not make it too dark.

jesbroken

Must be the setting TurtleCat, as my lights are within 2-3 inches of the coin setting. I am using 2 ott lights and I have another, but thought that might be too much. Setting is on macro. I'm not real sharp with cameras, so If I appear stupid, I might be. I have never used manual mode, so that may be an issue itself. I thank you for your help.
Jim

air4mdc

Are you using a true macro lens? If not, that could be an issue. It appears some images are not in 100 per cent focus. This could be because you are not using a macro lens, or not using a remote shutter or the computer is not getting a correct meter and autofocus in “ Auto “ mode. Try manual mode. You could try a white balance card as well. But most definitely, you need more light. I have a Canon 100mm macro L Series lens, a copy stand, Canon 70D and I used diffused halogen lighting, which requires a lot of adjusting to get the right shot. Adequate pictures for me but nothing like TrueViews.

jesbroken

@air4mdc
I'm using an 18-55mm macro with a wide angle lens with macro attached. I will have to read up and take a tutorial before trying manual mode. Thanks for your help. BTW, I have read on this forum many who use the ott light, are they not good?
Jim

Gluggo

I use the ott light they work great. At least I think that’s what they are in the pic. I usually keep my lights parallel with my lens pointing straight down on the smaller unslabed coins. So the light are positioned far away from the coins. I use the lens that come with my camera stand by Ray. I do not usually swap or change lens just use the one you see . With the large slabs my camera would be positioned almost all the way to the top of the rail. I would the offset the light that work best.
You will have to go through your Manuel to see how you access your settings and slowly figure out how to set the “ white Balance”. I got it once and left it alone after I found it. Probably would take me another hour to find it again. Nothing but time take your time and slowly learn. It’s a slow process. Good luck

http://www.macrocoins.com/

ChrisH821

@jesbroken said:
Must be the setting TurtleCat, as my lights are within 2-3 inches of the coin setting. I am using 2 ott lights and I have another, but thought that might be too much. Setting is on macro. I'm not real sharp with cameras, so If I appear stupid, I might be. I have never used manual mode, so that may be an issue itself. I thank you for your help.
Jim

I've posted this before somewhere, this guy does a good job explaining the various functions and whatnot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-cCxpTjsVo

TurtleCat

@jesbroken said:
Must be the setting TurtleCat, as my lights are within 2-3 inches of the coin setting. I am using 2 ott lights and I have another, but thought that might be too much. Setting is on macro. I'm not real sharp with cameras, so If I appear stupid, I might be. I have never used manual mode, so that may be an issue itself. I thank you for your help.
Jim

Don’t worry about manual mode then. What you need is to increase exposure compensation. That’s very easy to do. It’s probably in the tutorial mentioned above. In Av mode, you would find the +/- button and set it to +2.0 and see how you like it. I found one video that should explain it specifically. Just remember to reset it back to 0 when you’re not taking pics of coins with this setup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBOo1aOb3IE

Stork

Are you tethered to a screen for focusing? I can't tell from the picture, but suspect that is the cord coming out the side. Also, I fuss with my aperature (?sp) setting as a deeper depth of field can be helpful for some medals/coins, but at the expense of some focus clarity. But I am shooting (hah!) for good enough, not magazine quality...

edited to add, oops, that is Gluggo's set up photo'd, not yours. So, yes, are you tethered to a screen, this would help manual focusing tremendously. Also, I have 4 lights, and diffusers I can pop on/off depending on the coin.

robec

@Gluggo said:
I use the ott light they work great. At least I think that’s what they are in the pic. I usually keep my lights parallel with my lens pointing straight down on the smaller unslabed coins. So the light are positioned far away from the coins. I use the lens that come with my camera stand by Ray. I do not usually swap or change lens just use the one you see . With the large slabs my camera would be positioned almost all the way to the top of the rail. I would the offset the light that work best.
You will have to go through your Manuel to see how you access your settings and slowly figure out how to set the “ white Balance”. I got it once and left it alone after I found it. Probably would take me another hour to find it again. Nothing but time take your time and slowly learn. It’s a slow process. Good luck

http://www.macrocoins.com/

Your lights appear to be Jansjo LED lights, not OTT lights. The LED's have a color temp at around 3000˚K while the OTT's are around 5000˚K.

TurtleCat

If you do use Ott lights, my recommendation is the OttLite FlexNeck Table Lamp. It has 3 brightness levels and is plenty diffused out of the box. The color temperature of the light doesn’t really matter much if you do a proper (and easy) white balance calibration.

ChrisH821

@robec said:

@Gluggo said:
I use the ott light they work great. At least I think that’s what they are in the pic. I usually keep my lights parallel with my lens pointing straight down on the smaller unslabed coins. So the light are positioned far away from the coins. I use the lens that come with my camera stand by Ray. I do not usually swap or change lens just use the one you see . With the large slabs my camera would be positioned almost all the way to the top of the rail. I would the offset the light that work best.
You will have to go through your Manuel to see how you access your settings and slowly figure out how to set the “ white Balance”. I got it once and left it alone after I found it. Probably would take me another hour to find it again. Nothing but time take your time and slowly learn. It’s a slow process. Good luck

http://www.macrocoins.com/

Your lights appear to be Jansjo LED lights, not OTT lights. The LED's have a color temp at around 3000˚K while the OTT's are around 5000˚K.

You know what.. now that you mention it I also have the Jansjo ones, not the Ott lights.

robec

@ChrisH821 said:

@robec said:

@Gluggo said:
I use the ott light they work great. At least I think that’s what they are in the pic. I usually keep my lights parallel with my lens pointing straight down on the smaller unslabed coins. So the light are positioned far away from the coins. I use the lens that come with my camera stand by Ray. I do not usually swap or change lens just use the one you see . With the large slabs my camera would be positioned almost all the way to the top of the rail. I would the offset the light that work best.
You will have to go through your Manuel to see how you access your settings and slowly figure out how to set the “ white Balance”. I got it once and left it alone after I found it. Probably would take me another hour to find it again. Nothing but time take your time and slowly learn. It’s a slow process. Good luck

http://www.macrocoins.com/

Your lights appear to be Jansjo LED lights, not OTT lights. The LED's have a color temp at around 3000˚K while the OTT's are around 5000˚K.

You know what.. now that you mention it I also have the Jansjo ones, not the Ott lights.

Those definitely have to be diffused. They take a bit of practice, but I love the fact they stay cool to the touch.

Gluggo

Thanks Robec that’s the light brand, I am not good on remembering with my Diabetes, Dimentia, and Altimers I been developing but yes that’s the light!
It’s really bad as I mix up Izzy with Moe Moe all the time. I will call Moe Moe, Izzy and then call Izzy Moe Moe in the same sentence, and their 😡 pissed at me!

jesbroken

@Gluggo
Wow, that's a nice setup. My ott lights are cordless and separate from the camera stand(which is far simpler than yours).
I thank you all for your informative comments and the videos. I have about 20 videos I have downloaded and look forward to the hours of learning.
Jim

Gluggo

Jesbroken if you ever decide to get that set up Ray make a good deal. I think my setup was around $400 - 450.00. But man I love that camera stand. Like I hardly use the other lenses even though I bought a few for my T6i . I could of saved a few bucks but should I need the other lens I can swap them out thanks to Ray getting me and telling me what small specialized pieces I needed to make the change on the stand.

air4mdc

@jesbroken said:
@air4mdc
I'm using an 18-55mm macro with a wide angle lens with macro attached. I will have to read up and take a tutorial before trying manual mode. Thanks for your help. BTW, I have read on this forum many who use the ott light, are they not good?
Jim

There is nothing wrong with Ott lights. It comes down to personal preference achieved with the best results. You could try using what you have and add a small halogen to liven up the coin a little. Or another Ott. White balance is very important. They make white balance cards that make a huge difference. I would pursue manual mode and a remote shutter.
Your lens set up I believe is not the choice of a true macro photographer. And that totally is my own opinion.
Best of luck to you and Your just a click away from that perfect snapshot.

jesbroken

@air4mdc
I have a 3rd ott light and I also have a set of 3 Auto Focus Macro Extension Tube 13/21/31MM For Canon Camera EF EF-S Mount Lenses that a friend gave me, but I didn't even know what they were for until I watched a tutorial. If I removed the wide angle lens and used these "tubes" would that be better? I have a set of white balance cards, but will have to study how to use them. I also use a remote shutter. I will also try to utilize my EOS Utility and view the photos as I take them on screen.
Sorry to be so dumb, but I have always used professional photographers, many on this very board for my nicer coins until the postage/insurance fees and worry losing them became too great a concern. Just recently since my illness has taken over my movements and keeps me home most of the time, I thought I would try doing better myself. I will get there, but then I'm not trying to become a pro, just adept at taking pics of my own coins. Again, I truly appreciate your help and that of the others who responded to my request.
Jim

Jimnight

Something I just can not grasp. Good luck.

Gluggo

I was on Amazon looking at the Ott lights and I noticed there are many different types. Sorry to ask but what style Ott light are you using maybe you can post a picture of one. And would you know it I ended up buying another model light but as a desktop light for the laptop.

jesbroken

@Gluggo
Here's a pic of the OTT lights and my cheap cam stand setup and a pic of the obv/rev of the 1931 S Lincoln Cent I was photographing.
Jim

Gluggo

Thank you for the picture nice looking camera. I put a link to rays site earlier should you ever want to upgrade. One of the advantages is if Zi have a slab I can use the camera stand. That’s about my max size and the camera is positioned at its highest level. Or as small as a dime which puts it about half way down the rail. I never have it positioned that close. But when I only had my stock lens I had the same problems. I found it was difficult to shine the light on the coin when the lens was so close.
Plus your loosing being able to place the light directly down at 12;00 oclock position. Really makes to coin POP OUT!

Not sure about the T6 Cannon but I don’t think there is much difference. I bought a few good beginner training DVD,s that I can restrain myself when I have free time. But for me I have ZERO FREE time maybe on the weekend but even that time has been stolen by work. My dogs are pissed! When I have time I will share those training DVDs. That way you can study on your own time. 😉

jesbroken

@Gluggo
Thanks Gluggo, but I don't have the money to pour into such a nice setup. Would love to, but don't mean to mislead you.
Jim

Gluggo

Understand jes your not alone!

Stork

Agree with Ray as being a great set up. He does have several price points and can work with you depending on your goals. Mine is a bit pricier because I wanted to go from little coins to medals (65 mm max). Plus if you have the camera body already he might do the rest of it. Never hurts to as, plus he is a great resource if you have questions later.

As for which OTT light it can make a big difference. I could never get those oblong ones to work for me. The table top goosenecks are great--mine are daylight range but that is something you can compensate for. I used the IKEA Jansjos that Ray and many others like. But I ended up going with these:

https://products.ottlite.com/p-436-led-flexneck-desk-lamp-with-usb.aspx

And an example. I would be happy with the phone, but the camera (IMO) does better, particularly for anything much smaller than a 55 mm diameter. To get the smaller details, well honestly I haven't tried it with this phone, but was never satisfied before.

iPhone X vs. Ray (much older camera than yours, but Canon). Both these sets of pictures were taken under the same lighting condition. This medal is near the upper limit of my range (~65 mm) on my fancy set up, so I did some shots with the phone before going under the lens. 4x ott lights, but I only had 3 on IIRC. And diffused. I've used ping pong balls in the past as well as the translucent white plastic square coin rolls for 50 cent pieces.

I've used towels, cloth, and currently some fancy diffusion paper. Whatever is at hand, and really anything to break up the hot spots on a medal like this. Still was harder to get the look with the phone version. With the camera I was able to manipulate the lights around/use less of it.

Focus isn't great given the depth of detail, but okay enough. No focus stacking going on in this house.

iPhone: Too brown and darker. Did not manipulate the photos at all.

Camera set up: Color is closer. IIRC I tweaked the exposure/shadows afterwards. But was very close to the in hand look, closer than the iPhone.

Stork

And here is a screen shot of the seller's photos. He obviously does better (assuming this posts okay).

(edited to add, it looks okay. He has great photos BTW, @numismagram was the seller. If you have any interest in medals then check out his site.).

jesbroken

So Gluggo, just a quick question. Does your camera body attach to the bellows upper plate and your macro lens to the base plate of the bellows, allowing for separation of each when expanding the bellows? I've never seen a setup like this.
Thanks again, all for your help.
Jim

Gluggo

@jesbroken said:
So Gluggo, just a quick question. Does your camera body attach to the bellows upper plate and your macro lens to the base plate of the bellows, allowing for separation of each when expanding the bellows? I've never seen a setup like this.
Thanks again, all for your help.
Jim

Yes so I can manipulate any distance on the focus by separating the lens from the camera or by brining it up against the camera it will focus depending on the size of the item. Not my design but it was Rays design.