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2014 Gold Kennedy Proof - Copper Spotted

MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 23, 2020 6:36PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I released a Gold Kennedy I purchased from the Mint in 2014 from it’s sealed box, thankfully, today and noticed on the reverse there is “copper” spotting. Red. Bright red. Really red.
I don’t see any reason to keep it given the condition. What would you do??
Sell it on the BST as “ugly toning”?
Keep it in the capsule?
Pocket coin?
Your thoughts are appreciated.

Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
«1

Comments

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s still 3/4 of an ounce of gold! It’ll always be worth something

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And the display box is impressive!

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • JTHawaiiJTHawaii Posts: 107 ✭✭✭

    Its a nice coin with an odd weight. I'd keep it or sell it to finance the purchase of a better example if you can't live with the spotting. Mine's in a slab and thankfully does not have any spots yet. I had to go check just now to be sure.

    Successful BST Transactions With: AUandAG, SurfinxHI, tightbudget, dmarks, jfoot13, jimineez1, PerryHall, rte592, cucamongacoin, Flackthat, robkool, Walkerguy21D, pruebas, KJB, LukeMarshall, 1630Boston, chumley, privatecoin, Histman, SullyFan2, al410, mcarney1173, Coinflip, mbogoman, dm679864, commoncents05, scooter25

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes when I opened it today I was excited (obverse) and then very disappointed. I really can’t stand red spotting on gold. I am glad to hear your graded version is OK
    I accept it on the Pandas as it’s often a given.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • privatecoinprivatecoin Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For sure someone would buy it for their album set.

    Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you don't like it or the spots just bug you ... your probably better off selling it . And like @kiyote said it's 3/4 of an ounce of gold ... people want gold! ... Either way good luck with your decision.

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That’s good to hear that someone may want it for their album set or otherwise.
    I would’ve felt terrible having sold it sealed.

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • rln_14rln_14 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭✭

    I have not looked at mine in a long time, hope it is ok, it remains and will most likely remain the most expensive coin I have ever purchased or will ever purchase

  • air4mdcair4mdc Posts: 916 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had one that developed a nasty red spot about a year after it was graded/slabbed. Disappointed to say the least.

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,245 ✭✭✭✭✭

    'uniquely toned'

  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MilesWaits said:
    .... noticed on the reverse there is “copper” spotting. Red. Bright red. Really red.

    Some spots are super cool...Can you post a picture?

    There was a low grade saint I saw once that had a bunch of little spots on the olive branch only.
    Kicking myself for not buying it.

    My Saint Set

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is a real disappointment.... copper spots can be very distracting, and most people avoid coins in that condition. I am sure it would sell on the BST though... As stated, it is gold and it would be ok in an album. Good luck, Cheers, RickO

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would sell on the BST as bullion which is what it now is.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2020 6:48AM

    I go mine out the other day. It has no problems. Knock on wood.

    I have a French Statue of Liberty gold piece that did that. It's definately disappointing.

    If it really bugs you, now would be a good time to sell given the price gold. I don't think that it's going stay at $1,700 + an ounce after this mess is over.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • PedzolaPedzola Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is one heck of a spot. How does that even happen? Isnt this supposed to be .999 gold and not an alloy?

    Instagram

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pedzola said:
    That is one heck of a spot. How does that even happen? Isnt this supposed to be .999 gold and not an alloy?

    It's actually 9999 fine or four nines. You wouldn't think a coin of almost pure gold could spot like that. If that were my coin, I'd dip it. It sure couldn't hurt it any more than that large spot already does.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you were to sell it as is, what would you ask?
    And if you dip it, it doesn’t damage the proof finish?

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That should come out in moderate acidic solution, even dip, or vinegar (acetic acid), or ye olde hot water plus baking soda plus aluminum foil - that sounds like witchcraft but is a legit means of correcting these spots. I have to pull my Kennedy out as it has one as well.
    Probably locked in over the weekend I will give it a roll. I have some other bullion with red spots - Libertads and Isle of Man like to do this a lot as well....

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • KliaoKliao Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Doesn’t heat help remove the copper spot?

    Collector
    75 Positive BST transactions buying and selling with 45 members and counting!
    instagram.com/klnumismatics

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You should either sell it or sell it. ;)

    That spot will come back even if you camouflage it.

  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've sold spotted gold on Ebay. Just prominently describe it and display it as such. I did straight auctions with $.99 starts, and still got better than spot.


    Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...



  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24, 2020 8:53AM

    Make a coin ring out of it? Or even a pendant if you can find a bezel for it.

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I vote for pocket piece. That would be a heck of a pocket piece, and probably one of a kind! But yeah, it's still worth at least melt.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's mine: red spot in obverse field to right of bust:
    Before -

    After treatment just now(see remedy below):

    I know I'm not the best photographer, but no tricks. I took a porcelain cereal bowl, put tap water plus a bunch of baking soda in it, nuked the solution for 2:30 at high in microwave, put aluminum foil in and then sat coin on top of the foil for about 3 minutes....

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow!!!!!

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I can, I am going to do a couple of other coins like the IOM and will post results. I just didn't like the responses above so did the "experiment" that I knew would work & cost about five cents to do...

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 5,375 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well done, professor!

    Now riding the swell in PM's and surf.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just now soaked a rare.9999 gold proof medal that had a big red spot with a pencil lead sized darker grey center in straight Tarn-X tarnish remover as mentioned to try in another recent thread post by Dan Carr. I let it sit about 15 minutes in straight, new solution, while carefully dabbing the spot lightly with a Q-tip every so often to see how it changed. Basically the entire spot just slowly dissolved away.

    I then rinsed it well under tap water and soaked it in distilled water and used a hairdryer to blow dry. I was amazed that it worked so well. My wife couldn't even see it anymore. LOL

    I have tried other things, but this really worked.

    Thanks, to @dcarr my medal really looks better.

    My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, that was the type of acid solution I spoke of in my first post, and may work with a couple of caveats:

    1 - it is a bit harder to get a hold of than aluminum foil and baking soda
    2 - a bit more toxic for kids, pets, etc. - contains thiourea and nonylphenol that has been judged to be carcinogenic & associated with reproductive & fetal abnormalities....
    3 - may have undesired affects on lower gold percentage alloys (ie < 14k/ .585 fine) as the alloyed material may be oxidized as well

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • air4mdcair4mdc Posts: 916 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    Here's mine: red spot in obverse field to right of bust:
    Before -

    After treatment just now(see remedy below):

    I know I'm not the best photographer, but no tricks. I took a porcelain cereal bowl, put tap water plus a bunch of baking soda in it, nuked the solution for 2:30 at high in microwave, put aluminum foil in and then sat coin on top of the foil for about 3 minutes....

    That’s about the same location and same size spot on my Kennedy.

  • spotthedogspotthedog Posts: 313 ✭✭✭

    Pcgs can do a conservation on it can't they? I sent a couple of coins to them that had red haze on them. They came back fine.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,026 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I just had a Mr. Wizard flashback! It's amazing that such a small amount of off metal can bloom on a gold surface. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • Mike59Mike59 Posts: 319 ✭✭✭

    I just got my coin out. Its in a NGC holder and luckily there are no copper spots.

    MIKE B.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is another example I just did in the last 10 minutes:

    Anguilla 1969 Ten Dollars Gold 0.900 fine, copper alloy

    Before:

    After:

    Here is a couple of pics of the "procedure"

    Picture of bowl plus Sodium Bicarbonate plus aluminum foil, and with coin in solution


    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    7Jaguar your Anguilla looks like it enhance the marks in the field after your process. Is that only the angle of the light cause I am not liking the way your after picture came out. Not that my opinion matters. Just wondering. TYIA :)

  • JTHawaiiJTHawaii Posts: 107 ✭✭✭

    Very nice, I’ve only done this with silver, good to know this works on gold too.

    Successful BST Transactions With: AUandAG, SurfinxHI, tightbudget, dmarks, jfoot13, jimineez1, PerryHall, rte592, cucamongacoin, Flackthat, robkool, Walkerguy21D, pruebas, KJB, LukeMarshall, 1630Boston, chumley, privatecoin, Histman, SullyFan2, al410, mcarney1173, Coinflip, mbogoman, dm679864, commoncents05, scooter25

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 26, 2020 6:22PM

    I will try another picture of the after - I'm terrible at iPhone photos.It actually look very nice in hand, and is fairly small so all apparent marks are blown up in size....

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've used TarnX for copper spots on gold on occasion. I can't stand copper spots on gold that is supposed to be .999. I had success on some 2008-W Gold Buffalos that developed some light to moderate copper spots. The spots were removed and because the copper wasn't too deep, there was no trace, maybe just a faint divot, but very small.

    On other occasions, I used TarnX on some D Carr gold with varying degrees of success, from acceptable to un-acceptable results. When the copper spot was either too large or too deep, the Tarn-X sometimes made the spot look scorched, When the spot is neither too large nor too deep, the Tarn-X seems to do a decent job getting the copper out.

    I don't think I'd try TarnX on a gold alloy coin, it would probably change the color of the coin. 7Jaguars's approach looks good to me also.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I looked at my Isle of Man viking coins and see they have black/grey spots, not red. I will try later today and record. Those are 22kt I believe. Will throw in a Singapore dragon one ounce that is .999.
    When I tried electrolysis with a battery source on some .925 British Vicky silver I had variable results. The "voltage" on this is a lot less and quite safe. Maybe throw in some silver at some point...

    BTW, Tarn-X has some known carcinogens and some that attack the reproductive tract - I will pass on that....

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BTW, Tarn-X has some known carcinogens and some that attack the reproductive tract - I will pass on that....

    Yes, gloves and good ventilation are highly recommended.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    Here's mine: red spot in obverse field to right of bust:
    Before -

    That could have been on eBay as Kennedy's blood spot and sold for a zillion bucks. >:)

    Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More before and after pictures, first the most successful and then to be fair some not as much:

    Singapore 0.999 fine gold 1988 100 Singold, before

    After:

    Here is a 1987 Britannia 100 pounds 0.9167 fine gold, before
    There is a spot in the second curl row above ear

    After

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Isle of Man 1975 Sovereign and 1977 5 Sovereigns, both allegedly same alloy 0.9167 fine gold
    Before:

    After:

    I am almost wondering if there is some other metal in the alloy that is being oxidized.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2020 6:18AM

    One question : Where did copper get mixed into 24 karat gold ?
    I haven't wrapped my mind around this, yet. And I've had a few pure gold coins that got these red spots.

    Currently have 2016 gold Mercury dime being returned (Ebay ) , due to spot. ( still in OGP)

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that even at 0.999 that surface impurities come into play, and it is these that oxidize. The simple red-orange ones are pretty easy to take care of, but if they turn blackish they may be a bit deeper.
    You saw the Kennedy I did and it turned out very well. I kept it in OGP because I like it that way and just popped that sucker back in there.
    Too bad you are not in the Washington DC area or I'd do it for you. Don't be scared of them.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Some other IOM Viking coins, love the design & sorry if they are "Darkside":

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am almost wondering if there is some other metal in the alloy that is being oxidized.

    I think that this is the case. Consider antimony, zinc, manganese - some of these may be present and might not clean up as well as Cu++

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have some questions about the sodium bicarbonate dissolved in hot water with the aluminum foil method of removing spots on gold. Do you put the side of the coin with the spot against the foil or the side without the spot against the foil or does it matter? How long does it take?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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