Will they move the National?
TheCrisser
Posts: 36 ✭
Think it has to be strongly considered. Or cancellation of it.
0
TheCrisser
Posts: 36 ✭
Comments
make it virtual....LOL
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
Of course they will
I doubt we see a National this year, especially considering the location. If you were an athlete, would you want to sit at a table all day signing autos?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Will be canceled this year.
No way does it run.Can't see a baseball season either, and probably any other sport until there is a cure and a vaccine.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
IMO baseball season starts in early to mid June without fans as the virus is far along the downslope (of this outbreak) per modeling.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Think you boys are right. I guess there’s a chance they could move it to another state. West coast, baby!
Really can't see it for 2020. They moved the 2020 summer Olympics to 2021 and the same decision will likely be made by the NSCC. Interesting to see if Atlantic City is the host city or Chicago (original location for 2021).
Since we are in a pandemic, moving it wouldn't make a difference. The whole point is to avoid congregating. See you all in Chicago, 2021.
The problem with all of this is that even if it is on a down slope in June-July, it is going to ramp up again in the fall, just like the flu. Unless we get a vaccine.
Even if we get a vaccine they have to manufacture 100s of millions of doses. This year’s National is toast - let’s hope next year’s will be doable.
definitely no NSCC this year.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Now that the Atlantic City Convention Center is a COVID-19 field hospital, I would say that there will be no National this year
https://6abc.com/health/covid-19-field-hospital-coming-to-atlantic-city-convention-center/6047704/
Kingnascar's PSA Sets
Kingnascar's PSADNA Sets
Move it........no
Cancel it......yes
Let's be positive:
https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections
Now if people have the disposable income for the National this year, that's another story....
That curve assumes full social distancing. we know that ain't happening.
Actually, lets all try and stay "negative"
If they move it to Greenland, nobody will catch the virus.
I would say they are unwilling to move the national under any circumstance known to man. Moving it during the Coronavirus would not make sense. Moving the National under normal circumstances- there are no collectors at all, not 1 West of the Mississippi. CA has no collectors at all...Seattle has never heard of baseball cards...Vegas has no money to buy cards.... I think they need new minds to think outside the box with all of this National stuff. Crazy that there are only like 3 venues used for this event. Lets call California.. Atlantic City and lets call Atlantic City... California. Either way they are both on the opposite borders of the US. I could write all night on this. There are literally thousands of West Coast collectors. RANT OVER FOR THE DAY.
Mickey71
CNN said we need close down everything for 18 months. There you go.
CNN doesn't say anything.
Heard the NJ Governor on tv last night. That state is in bad shape. The Natty is toast this year.
For those who are delusional:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
I know it's been a while since the National has been in California - and things could be different the next time - but hardly anyone from Southern California showed up in 2000 and 2006. I will bet more people were from out of state than from CA. Attendance sucked. I guess those thousands of collectors you referred to all had something else better to do, even though the date should've been circled on the calendar for months. That is all the reason I need not to endorse a West Coast National ever again.
I know it's costly for the East Coast dealers to make the cross country trip, not to mention the extra days of travel, but if collectors showed up in droves, is make the effort. Hell, in 2006, I did a three week cross-country buying trip ending up in SoCal, and our National booth consisted of all the things I bought. I was psyched for the show! Then hardly anyone showed up.
Cancel it.
Reed,
Hello. I hope you are doing well during this crazy time. The time 2000 and 2006 might as well have BC after it. That was a million years ago in regards to the collecting world. I think the right venue at the right time of year would work. I'm not saying CHI is not good....I'm just saying that there can be other choices. How about Indianapolis?? They hold every major sporting event that I can think of. How about St. Louis? Crap....Seattle holds Comic-Con and that is no chump change event. Seattle has held a Worlds Fair...Final Four...Copa tournament etc. I just would like to see a West Coast National again at some point.
Why not have two Nationals each year? The West Coast and East Coast. The more notoriety the better for the Hobby/Investors. February for the West coast and August for the East Coast. Plus more dealers can get involved.
Olb31....don't dare think outside the box. You might get into trouble. Lol. Good suggestion.
Folks thought the Wright Brothers were crazy........
I vote for Charlotte.
I'm doing well, but going crazy sitting at home. I like buying deals, I like traveling around the country, I like working - it energizes me. I'm guessing this blows past April and eats up May and June as well, so I'll just do the best I can for now. Boring stuff - prepare PSA submissions, find cards to list on COMC, sort through the lower dollar stuff - it's a good think I'm allowed to bring product home to work on.
I know the last post came off a little angry, so I'll try to do this one a bit calmer. Because I have been friends with all the National guys (John Broggi, Mike Berkus and the Berkus family, and previously Bob Wilke) for years, and you've read some of the reasons for their decisions here and on other message boards, I think I can get as close to the truth on some of these issues. I've been to every National since 1998, so I've seen what works and doesn't work.
Most cities don't want us because of the following:
We are too small - simply put, we don't sell enough hotel rooms. It doesn't help things when people are willing to stay a half hour away to save money; the convention center needs to sell the rooms that are next door to it, not in the next county. In addition, the convention center doesn't get the additional revenue from major corporations paying to set up and break down their booths. An average dealer isn't going to pay a dime to have someone else set up their booth. When all the vendors are multi-million dollar companies, the revenue generated by the expo center is unbelievable.
We need lead time - most convention centers don't want to guarantee us a space a few years out. Why not? I'm guessing if we take a prime summer week three years out, we might be blocking out a bigger and more profitable event that can put together their plan in a year.
Indianapolis - they have GenCon right about the same time we have the National; it's been that way for years. I also think their center is more of a series of rooms, rather than one giant hall like Rosemont, the I-X Center, AC, etc. With multiple rooms, which dealers want to get shafted by being in the auxillary hall?
St. Louis - I think it was there in '95. Not sure why it hasn't been considered again, but I bet there's a somewhat valid reason. Someone who attended that one might be able to chime in.
Vegas - I really hope this location never gets brought up again. Vegas is a great place to have a convention where nothing is bought/sold; just a show to display new products, take orders, or network. So many collector's budgets will be cut into by the allure of the casinos. So many dealers will show up late every day because they were gambling all night long. So many collectors won't show up at all because they lost all their money in the casino. It might make for a great buying show for someone like me! I just took my wife and her kids to Vegas for a couple days in February - it is not kid friendly either.
West coast - I think it would work, but as previously noted, we as in "the dealers", have been burned twice already. Yes, 2000 and 2006 seem like a lifetime ago, but there are some real obstacles even in current times. This isn't some convention where everyone just flies in and out; the expense of getting product to the show is real. Can you imagine what it was like for some of the dealers in the Northeast (and there are a lot of them) making the four day drive each way to do the show? The costs of hotels and food for not just one week, but two weeks? The interruption of business for not one week, but two weeks? All the gas plus many will have to rent trucks? If the dealers aren't happy, they aren't going to vote for it. Finally, convincing all the collectors who drive to a Chicago or Cleveland National to fly to the west coast for a change is an impossible task. By the time they make it out west, they will have hundreds of not thousands of dollars less to spend at the show.
I get it, it sucks to be shunned out on the West Coast or the South. You all know where I'm originally from; I know all about it. Why don't we have the National in Honolulu? They have an acceptable convention center, lots of flights, lots of hotel rooms, nice weather, family friendly, lots of sightseeing, I can think of one local card shop there you could visit, and tons of good looking women.
I'm biased but I will definitely vote for Honolulu
Reed,
What do West Coast dealers say about bringing all of there stuff to Atlantic City?? I just mentioned Indy just for the heck of it. Also, the National seems set in stone on the date....why? I just think the National is set in their ways and will never change. How about TX, Nashville...etc. I also think we agree on most stuff; but the relevance of past data I believe is useless as 2000 and 2006 was a billion years ago. Let's look at PSA 2000....let's look at PSA 2020- they have so many cards to grade and so busy that it is downright unbelievable. They opened a NJ office....they opened an office in Tokyo. The hobby can certainly expand the National. Steve Jobs was developing the Atari game Combat in the mid 1970s......look at where we are now.
Phoenix, Austin, San Antonio, Denver. I'd take any of those over Cali.
LarkinCollector,
Yes, I just would like to see the event rotated. I think at a certain point it may not move at all the way it's going. Sounds like many only want CHI Town as the epicenter of cards.
I don't really see much difference between AC and Vegas for the reasons mentioned either, Philly would be a much better location for those flying in and the dealers/attendees avoiding the gambling temptation.
I think one thing is overlooked - how much the promoters stand to make at each location. Rotating cities to them isn't as important as their bottom line. Case in point...the Berkus family is based in Southern California; shouldn't they be pressing for a National in their own backyard? It's been rumored that the use of the I-X Center and the AC Convention Center is free; the convention center makes their money on vendor services, the food court, etc., while the city and county get to sell rooms, food, etc for which the collect tax revenue on. If this is true, it should be pointed out the cost of the vendor booths are the same in Chicago as it is in Cleveland as it is in Atlantic City. Chicago may have a wildly successful show, but AC might make the promoters more money.
The West Coast dealers I know definitely complain about how far they have to travel. Still, they are outnumbered by the East Coast dealers. When dealers vote for where they want to have the show (and I'm not sure who counts the votes, but the results are blind), it's unlikely the West Coast will ever win again, let alone be a finalist.
The National hasn't always been the same weekend, but for the most part it has been quite consistent as the last week of July/first week in August. I think the rationale is just about everyone is on break from school (not sure why that matters when grown adults are the target audience) but more importantly, the dates are close to Baseball and Football HOF weekend. Knowing that a lot of the autograph guests are available for travel that weekend helps? IIRC, the 2000 National was in late June?
Also, we can all agree baseball card dealers in general are a lazy bunch - even the successful ones. Do you really think we as a group are going to put in the extra effort involved to go somewhere relatively new? I also just remembered something very important about what is known as "priority."
Every National dealer has a priority number, and that number represents how many Nationals they have set up at. Those with the highest priority get to choose their booth location first. Ever wonder why the oldest dealers are at the front of the room? They get to choose first. You maintain your priority number as long as you keep setting up at the show, but every so many years, you are allowed a skip year, and you maintain your number instead of re-setting back to zero. (I think I understand and explained this correctly.) What I am sure of is quite a few dealers - if told the National will be out west - will choose to skip it. My company won't skip it, the manufacturers won't skip it, but a lot of dealers you're used to seeing just might. Sure, that will open things up for new blood to come in and make the show more exciting (let's be honest - the dealers who would skip aren't exactly trying when it comes to display, new inventory, or customer service), but when the show goes back east, those same boring dealers have their booths again, and the new blood is screwed again and be forced to split a 10x10 booth with six other "dealers."
Damn, I'm gonna miss doing the National this year. It's still on - same place, same dates - but we all know by now that it's just not going to happen.
It's been 14 years and a lot of us 40-somethings and 30-somethings are back in the hobby. I'm sure if the dollars made sense to promote the show here and they try it, it would be well attended by us West Coasters.
How about San Diego.... BaseballCardCon...CardCon...
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/pdub1819/othersets/6204
I will admit that I do enjoy looking through display cases and boxes, as opposed to endless virtual scanning online, something I have unfortunately done very little of in a long time.
However, with ebay exploding in popularity in the last 2 decades, along with COMC and other newer online card venues, I have a hard time seeing how large shows even exist anymore. I am guessing many of the dealers who attend these shows also have online stores or use auction houses or sites like ebay. I am guessing this filters down to most of the retail shops that have managed to survive as well. They can't really live on walk-in traffic alone anymore, can they?
It's hard to say as a long time collector who started with mail-order catalogs from ads in Baseball Digest and Sport, along with grocery stores for packs, but the convenience of online buying has made in person shopping nearly obsolete for me and I don't mind that. I remember the days of searching through boxes and driving from shop to shop to find those last few cards you needed for a set that nobody seemed to have. Now you type in the card and a dozen or more pop up for sale for pennies and nickles.
Not to mention that all but the most scarce and rare of items are often flooding the online market, giving buyers a wide array of choices, yet you can count on many retail shops and long time show dealers to have a lot of those same items with decade old price tags on their yellowed toploaders at sometimes 10-100X what many will sell online. Frankly, I got tired of seeing the same stuff at inflated pricing over and over, although these were small shows or shops in "dried up, collector-unfriendly" Seattle. I will also say though that I am sick of $3-5 for shipping of every card I want to buy online. COMC seemed to look like the longterm answer to that, but more and more it is becoming home to many of those yellowing toploader type dealers who think a 25 cent card will actually sell for $2.
If ever there was a National that was convenient for me to attend, I would love to check it out. However, no way in hell I am going to get my family to agree to spend valuable and limited vacation time so I can go to a card show, nor would I be willing to spend the money to travel to and stay in a city hosting a show. I am not a fan of paying a show fee either, so there is that too. I would not expect a show of this size to cater to my needs/wants, as it needs to be profitable to those involved. The National does not need the kind of low dollar sales a collector like me might bring (I can't see me spending much more than $500 anyways, as I assume anything I really want would have shown up online already anyway), I know this, but there could be 1000s of these types of collectors willing to spend a smaller amount of money if it didn't involve spending that or more just to get to the show.
Charlotte, Atlanta, Northern VA, Nashville would be some good southern locations.
St. louis, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, LA, San Diego, Would be some good midwest, west locations.
Had seriously considered attending, but with such a close proximity to the NYC hot spot of the virus, the virus would have to be totally eradicated by then. That may not be accomplished by then. Not worth the risk.
What’s your prediction? I’ll take the opposite of that.
At least if I’m going to die, it’ll be in the best place on earth... I hope by then everything will be ok!
COLLECTING: 2020 Topps 206 ⚾️
facebook.com/groups/Topps206
Hearing they will put off a decision until the end of May, but the state of New Jersey will make the decision for them. It is not going to happen.
Let’s just do it at that guys house who posted pics of all the unopened.
But Only if we get to Rip!
YeeHah
Neil
If the National was smart they would have two shows per year. Best thing to do is have one in Orlando in early March to coincide with spring training. Warm weather, everyone would travel to Florida, plenty of signers due to the number of players already there for ST, families would travel there for parks as well as card show, and not waiting 12 months between shows. Makes too much sense plus a huge convention center to hold it at.