Home U.S. Coin Forum

Will PCGS follow NGC and issue a Details population census?

Would enjoy seeing these numbers.

Comments

  • alefzeroalefzero Posts: 863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are indispensable for early American coins. We really need them at least for those.

  • Yes! I am keen to know them for Draped Bust silver.

    Flowing Hair, Draped Bust for starts. Capped Bust--the numbers start getting large though I would still want to know.

  • I am curious. Has PCGS ever issued an official statement on the question?

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2022 1:12PM

    i am just now perusing this and was unaware of its existence.

    i do like the idea but it would seem even though ive asked about its usefulness (as have others ) in theory previously, how accurate or what benefit can come from this not knowing how may crackouts may occur which would have to be significantly higher than even the regular pops which are also skewed if not plagued by crackouts and non-updated info from lack of cert turn-ins?

    edited to add CCG - NGC

    "Census / Population Reports only reflect the quantities and types of collectibles previously graded by the CCG Companies, and are not an indicator of value or rarity. This Report is provided as a resource for hobbyists’ informational use only and should not be relied upon for the purpose of making a purchase or an investment. The CCG Companies make no representation or warranty concerning the accuracy or reliability of the information contained herein."

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • I am happy to see a response. We know there are already crack outs between PCGS and NGC grading services and indeed within them.

    With early American, there are many details coins out there which once slabbed remain so.

    The relative rates? I am not sure.

    Perhaps the best place to start an accurate accounting is with early American, say flowing hair/Liberty cap through Draped Bust.

    With true view and such crack outs need not get double counted.

    Details coins should be examined as pieces of American history.

    And there is, I think, a helpful set of standards for Details coins beyond grad assignments.

    First tier: Ancient cleanings tend to fade over time and were probably innocent enough. Holes were part of culture. Scratches are often accidents.

    Second Tier: Then is environmental damage and bent and dinged coins. Minimal survivors.

    Third Tier: Artifact Coins: Then you get graffiti and punches.

    Debatable Tier: restored coins. there are modern cleaning, tooled or repaired coins which can range from art restoration to outright fraud.

    But Details coins abound in early American and are an interesting first coins of patriotic collectors who cannot as easily afford graded early American coins. To know they hold a rare piece of American history—to which a population census helps— is what coin collecting badly needs in this era of slabbed-at-birth special strikes which has generated a fair share of disappointed buyers of coins coming back as MS-69!

    Moreover, we know with early American, mint notes on coins struck do not correspond to the reported numbers of dates on coins. A population census would be essential.

    By getting the two grading services to work on this database is beyond numismatics. Its an account of what remains of early American monetary history.

    Beyond these years, as the fledging country was clear to survive, coinage numbers soar. If the early American effort is successful, perhaps they can try the capped bust era and its equivalent in the coppers. But starting with standardized Seated Liberty series, a Details census has little meaning.

    Thanks for reading through this. Cheers.

  • jt88jt88 Posts: 2,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like to see that happens.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2022 2:10AM

    I haven't read about this, but it would be nice for details grades to be incorporated into the existing census and pops.

    It would be cumbersome to have to look up 2 pops for each coin to add them up. I have to do PCGS and NGC as is. Having to do 2 for each just multiplies the lookups.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,589 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can't wait for the top pop registries of UNC DETAILS... lol

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TurtleCat said:
    Can't wait for the top pop registries of UNC DETAILS... lol

    You have to have a registry for each type of details...cleaned, scratched, Corroded, etc! ;)

  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    More data is always useful including details coins. They are widely collected and every early US coin in a no reserve auction will get multiple bidders. For early die marriages, there is currently not enough data for rarity estimates because most do not pay the attribution fee.

    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • OmegaraptorOmegaraptor Posts: 527 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Indispensable for early coinage especially early half cents and large cents. Also would be very useful for certain Seated dates.

    I believe there exists a Liberty Head gold issue in which the only surviving UNC is a "details" coin. I'd need a refresher on which one it is, but I know there is one.

    "You can't get just one gun." "You can't get just one tattoo." "You can't get just one 1796 Draped Bust Large Cent."

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    I haven't read about this, but it would be nice for details grades to be incorporated into the existing census and pops.

    It would be cumbersome to have to look up 2 pops for each coin to add them up. I have to do PCGS and NGC as is. Having to do 2 for each just multiplies the lookups.

    .
    if they just implemented them into the (+) like a variety, it would be easy but i'm not sure how that feels/looks from a marketing standpoint.

    there are times in life where little implementations like this set us up or crush us. so i imagine they'd proceed exceedingly carefully IF they did this.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file