Appalachian Hoard Jefferson War Nickels

android01

These war nickels started to make an appearance around the year 2000. They were allegedly found in rolls as part of an estate somewhere in the Appalachian mountains, hence the name. NGC slabbed some of them before it was deemed that they are artificially toned. The NGC cert #'s for these for these were in the 291239-xxx, 291240-xxx, 291279-xxx and 291281-xxx according to my research. Our hosts apparently crossed over a few of these before they too determined that these are artificially toned and stopped crossing them, or grading them for that matter. It appears that I have one of these nickels - except it's in a different cert range - 207335-xxx (1944-P MS66). It looks exactly like other pictures I've seen of these nickels, so I'm convinced it is from the Appalachian hoard. It also seems to have been slabbed by NGC in roughly the same time period as the documented ones.

Does anyone have an example of one of these that fall outside of the documented range mentioned above? I may have a new find, which would be exciting!

Here's a couple pics of mine, and no, the pictures aren't juiced!

Meltdown

Neat. Where'd you find it?

android01

@Meltdown said:
Neat. Where'd you find it?

A dealer friend of mine had it. He knew I was into toned stuff, so he sold it to me. He told me of the Appalachian hoard, and I've been researching it.

android01

@android01 said:

@Meltdown said:
Neat. Where'd you find it?

A dealer friend of mine had it. He knew I was into toned stuff, so he sold it to me. He told me of the Appalachian hoard, and I've been researching it.

There's still a debate (go figure) that these are NT.

yspsales

Even when I find them in mint packaging or albums, I am a skeptic... LOL

Interesting coin...

Hydrant

Natural or artificial toning, I would like to own one or two just for the pedigree.

davewesen

I am not sure what you have is one, unless the picture is not showing the yellow, pink and greens. Here is one selling at StacksBowers next month

johnny9434

cool pick up

TurtleCat

I have one possibly that I sent in today to cross. It’s 207281-040. It doesn’t look like yours, though, but is mostly green-yellow. Someone on the board gave it to me years ago. If I remember, I’ll let you know if it crosses in a month or so.

android01

@davewesen said:
I am not sure what you have is one, unless the picture is not showing the yellow, pink and greens. Here is one selling at StacksBowers next month

Mine doesn't have any green, but it certainly shows the pink/purple-yellow/gold. If the green is something that's generally found on them, mine probably isn't from the Appalachian hoard. Mine is also an MS66. Most of the hoard coins were MS67. Mine doesn't fall within NGC cert ranges for these coins either. It does look like many internet pictures I've seen of hoard coins though. The plot thickens! Also, as far as I know, PCGS never certified hoard coins except for a few that were crossed over from NGC before they were deemed AT. It would be interesting to know where the Pogue (Stacks Bowers) coin came from.

toyz4geo

Interesting. Personally not crazy about the toning but I appreciate the backstory.

android01

@TurtleCat said:
I have one possibly that I sent in today to cross. It’s 207281-040. It doesn’t look like yours, though, but is mostly green-yellow. Someone on the board gave it to me years ago. If I remember, I’ll let you know if it crosses in a month or so.

Yes! Please let me know if it crosses! The cert number on mine is 207335-001. Close to yours provided that NGC uses sequential cert numbers. I'm not sure if they do. Both of our coins could have been graded on the same day.

davewesen

threads from the past with some pics

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10978338#Comment_10978338

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10054512#Comment_10054512

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/6292262#Comment_6292262

crazyhounddog

Interesting story that I’m just now learning about reading this. I remember these nickels selling at a premium due to the toning they display.
Thank you for sharing 👌

TurtleCat

@android01 said:

@TurtleCat said:
I have one possibly that I sent in today to cross. It’s 207281-040. It doesn’t look like yours, though, but is mostly green-yellow. Someone on the board gave it to me years ago. If I remember, I’ll let you know if it crosses in a month or so.

Yes! Please let me know if it crosses! The cert number on mine is 207335-001. Close to yours provided that NGC uses sequential cert numbers. I'm not sure if they do. Both of our coins could have been graded on the same day.

What grade is yours? Mine is a 66*. I asked for crossover at current grade so hopefully it’ll either cross or return in NGC holder.

android01

@davewesen said:
threads from the past with some pics

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10978338#Comment_10978338

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/10054512#Comment_10054512

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/6292262#Comment_6292262

Thanks, @davewesen. Very Informative!

android01

@TurtleCat said:

@android01 said:

@TurtleCat said:
I have one possibly that I sent in today to cross. It’s 207281-040. It doesn’t look like yours, though, but is mostly green-yellow. Someone on the board gave it to me years ago. If I remember, I’ll let you know if it crosses in a month or so.

Yes! Please let me know if it crosses! The cert number on mine is 207335-001. Close to yours provided that NGC uses sequential cert numbers. I'm not sure if they do. Both of our coins could have been graded on the same day.

What grade is yours? Mine is a 66*. I asked for crossover at current grade so hopefully it’ll either cross or return in NGC holder.

Mine is MS66 (no star).

TurtleCat

Seems pretty typical. Mine isn’t splotchy at all but it is a color I haven’t seen before. It won’t be too sad if it doesn’t cross. I’ll only be out the grading fee since it was a gift from years ago.

keets

these were graded at a time when the coin market was rising steadily, toned coins seemed to be showing up with regularity and the Hoards were aplenty. this group came along on the heels of the MadMarty garage hoard of electric toned Proof Jefferson Nickels. although there were many toned coins at this time that collectors and the overall market deemed legitimate, the two Jefferson Nickel hoards have been widely debunked.

TurtleCat

I do remember those electric jeff proofs. I have one but it isn’t as electric as those he showed back then.

Jimnight

Real nice war nickels.

TurtleCat

@android01 said:

@TurtleCat said:

@android01 said:

@TurtleCat said:
I have one possibly that I sent in today to cross. It’s 207281-040. It doesn’t look like yours, though, but is mostly green-yellow. Someone on the board gave it to me years ago. If I remember, I’ll let you know if it crosses in a month or so.

Yes! Please let me know if it crosses! The cert number on mine is 207335-001. Close to yours provided that NGC uses sequential cert numbers. I'm not sure if they do. Both of our coins could have been graded on the same day.

What grade is yours? Mine is a 66*. I asked for crossover at current grade so hopefully it’ll either cross or return in NGC holder.

Mine is MS66 (no star).

Long time to follow up... But for the record it did not cross. I did specify cross at same grade so in theory it might have crossed in another grade but perhaps not.

Namvet69

So did an examination detect a trace of chemicals on the surface of the nickels? Inquiring minds want to know. Peace Roy

TurtleCat

I haven’t run across any extra info on this “hoard”. Although I am curious if the determination was made based on conjecture or if someone fessed up or the market decided it wasn’t acceptable.

TurtleCat

I finally got my failed crossover back. So here's the pics @android01 if you want to see. So far as I can tell, I haven't seen another "appalachian" one that looks like this.

android01

Thanks @TurtleCat! I haven't seen one like it either. I have a 4-5 of what I think belong to the hoard at PCGS for crossover from NGC right now. I'll let you know the results and will post pics (I ordered TV's) when the return.

Crypto

I have handled thousands of war nickels, I have never seen one that looked remotely like the examples posted that wasn't messed with.

That’s a lot of toning for 35% silver. Nickels are easy coins to tone. You know you are deep in the toning weeds when you find your self making up stories about how they could have ended up like they did and then arguing your imagination as if it was fact.

jmlanzaf

I'm intrigued at the number of people trying to cross these

TurtleCat

@jmlanzaf said:
I'm intrigued at the number of people trying to cross these

In my case it was for several reasons. I had been out of the hobby during the time when these were discussed a lot more so I wasn’t aware of any controversy. I also hadn’t seen one that looked quite like this one. All of the “hoard” ones I saw were very different so I thought it’s possible. Lastly, because I wanted to see if it would cross. Why not? I haven’t decided what I will do with it. I’ve had it for like 14-15 years or so.

jmlanzaf

@TurtleCat said:

@jmlanzaf said:
I'm intrigued at the number of people trying to cross these

In my case it was for several reasons. I had been out of the hobby during the time when these were discussed a lot more so I wasn’t aware of any controversy. I also hadn’t seen one that looked quite like this one. All of the “hoard” ones I saw were very different so I thought it’s possible. Lastly, because I wanted to see if it would cross. Why not? I haven’t decided what I will do with it. I’ve had it for like 14-15 years or so.

I'm not suggesting anyone do other than what their heart desires. But this is a weird thread that has half the posts talking AT and the other half talking about slabs and crossing them.

metalmeister

War nickles can can be found in old folders with beautiful toning and are 100% N.T. I bought sets back in the 1990's and put the best in air tite holders.

stockdude_

@metalmeister said:
War nickles can can be found in old folders with beautiful toning and are 100% N.T. I bought sets back in the 1990's and put the best in air tite holders.

Can you post a few pictures? War nickles are one of my interests

android01

Here are a couple I sent in to PCGS to cross, but they didn't. They are beautiful coins - much nicer than the pictures show. They are so unusually toned, I thought they might be part of the hoard mentioned in this thread.

TurtleCat

I guess neither of our war nickels are part of the hoard officially. Yours has a closer look to the hoard, though, than mine.

metalmeister

@stockdude_ said:

@metalmeister said:
War nickles can can be found in old folders with beautiful toning and are 100% N.T. I bought sets back in the 1990's and put the best in air tite holders.

Can you post a few pictures? War nickles are one of my interests

Stock

I need to photo nickels still. Still working on Quarters on my way down from $20 pieces.

Crypto

@toyz4geo said:
Interesting. Personally not crazy about the toning but I appreciate the backstory.

Wild toning always has a back story. People's undeterred endorsement even in the face of logic always confused me. I guess the desire to believe is greater than common sense. Applies to most faith based transactions.

davewesen

@android01 said:
Here are a couple I sent in to PCGS to cross, but they didn't. They are beautiful coins - much nicer than the pictures show. They are so unusually toned, I thought they might be part of the hoard mentioned in this thread.

those are nice coins but I see a couple things that PCGS does not like

1- purple on war nickels is frequently the result of heating
2- a couple places look like liquid 'pooling' that did not tone.

TPRC

OK, I'll say it....they all look AT to me, and pretty clearly so. Now, some of the ones in the referenced threads look pretty good.

TurtleCat

I’m not saying mine is unequivocally naturally toned (see pictures above in the thread) but it is a look I haven’t seen on any other nickel. It’s sitting on my bookcase right now. Haven’t decided what I’ll do with it yet.

leothelyon

Flooded basement toned album coins not properly,thoroughly dried out, left out to dry out slowly in album or 2x2's boxes once they're rescue/pulled from water. I has always tried my best to avoid such water stained appearing coins although I do have a few.....none I've ever taken the time to photograph.

Leo

Crypto

If coins looks like that from flooded basements I suspect there would be lots more.

If you were to AT a bunch of coins, would you not make up some BS story to try to explain them away? The only variable is home much the buyers want to believe

ElmerFusterpuck

That "hoard" seemed suspicious and I love toned coins. The war nickels definitely do tone and can be very nice. I had a set in an old capitol set holder, and almost all were toned in nice shades of gold with some blue. I submitted them all and all graded except for one, which had a scrape on the portrait.

android01

@davewesen said:

@android01 said:
Here are a couple I sent in to PCGS to cross, but they didn't. They are beautiful coins - much nicer than the pictures show. They are so unusually toned, I thought they might be part of the hoard mentioned in this thread.

those are nice coins but I see a couple things that PCGS does not like

1- purple on war nickels is frequently the result of heating
2- a couple places look like liquid 'pooling' that did not tone.

Thanks for the info on the purple color and the pooling. I learn something new every day!

crazyhounddog

Personally I love the way the 75% copper X 25% nickel alloy tones. I think it displays the most vibrant colors.

android01

@TurtleCat said:
I’m not saying mine is unequivocally naturally toned (see pictures above in the thread) but it is a look I haven’t seen on any other nickel. It’s sitting on my bookcase right now. Haven’t decided what I’ll do with it yet.

I'm not sure about mine being NT either. NGC didn't have a problem with mine, unless they used market grading. I don't think that they'd straight grade something that they knew for sure was AT.

Lehigh96

All of the Appalachians I have ever owned were from the NGC submission numbers that you have listed.

The only Jefferson I have ever found outside those submission numbers with toning similar to Appalachians and a submission number old enough to be from the hoard would be this coin.

l

TurtleCat

@Lehigh96, That last one is the closest one to mine I’ve seen. In fact it is 8 coins after mine. If you look at the top of the thread I put in the ID. 207281-040. How cool we posted two coins with somewhat similar looks from the same submission.

So that lends itself more to being part of the same submission batches but without a provenance or collection designation.