@coolstanley said:
THIS is why Terry Bradshaw is in the Hall. Top 50 NFL player of all time.
Bradshaw currently holds two Super Bowl records.... Game Yds/Pass Att - 14.7 and Career Yds/Pass Att - 11.1
He is 3rd in all time career SB touchdown passes - 9
He is 3rd all time in SB game passing touchdowns - 4
He is fourth all-time in Super Bowl passer rating - 112.8
And sixth all time in SB passing yds - 932
The question put to you is to identify something - anything - about Bradshaw that shows him to be a great QB separate from the deserving HOFers that surrounded him. Now, I understand that passing stats by their nature are not individual stats, and allocating credit among the QB, receivers and O-line is very subjective. You could try to do that, but you didn't. You went straight to Super Bowl stats, and nothing but Super Bowl stats. I can think of nothing more indicative that a QB is playing for a great team than career Super Bowl records. Nothing. You have selected the stats that are absolutely the MOST dependent on Bradshaw's teammates.
Either you get that, but answered this way anyway because it's all you've got, or you don't get that and discussing this further will lead to nothing but frustration. Either way, I've reached the end of this discussion.
I'm sorry that Big game records dont impress you. But in reality, thats what fans remember. The player that stepped up his game in The big game. And thats the reason why Bradshaw is one of the most popular quarterbacks in NFL history. Last time i checked, its the QB that gets the most credit for wins. Thats why they make the big bucks. But go ahead and keep spewing out your nonsense.
@perkdog said:
Personally I dont think he is a Troll I just think he is way off with Bradshaw lol
I like to give credit where credit is due. Bradshaw really improved his game after 1977 when the league started to give QB's some protection.
He had a good year in 1978, but dropped off 79-80. Was not in the top 15 in completion % in any of his last 4 years. I ignored 1983.
Disagree about 79. The Steelers had the #2 passing offense in the NFL.
He was the 8th rated QB and 15th in completion %.
AVERAGE QB..............GREAT WR's
Edited to add; too many interceptions that year, he was about the 5th best QB that year. If this is one of his best years, he certainly does not merit HOF.
Nah, great receivers arn't borderline HOF. Many people dont think Stallworth and Swann deserve to be in the HOF. Bradshaw was selected to the pro bowl, and was selected SPORTS ILLUSTRATED Sportsman of the year award in 79. Not too shabby of a year. Average QB lol.
@coolstanley said:
During his career Mike Kruczek never threw a touchdown pass in a regular season game and currently holds the league record for career pass attempts, 154, without a touchdown.
Yep he was as good as Bradshaw LOL.
And yet Pittsburgh went 6-1 in his starts. Kinda tells you that the QB didn't matter much for them, eh?
Nah, not really. Sooner or later the opposing teams will figure out their opponents weaknesses.
What weaknesses did the Steelers 70’s Super Bowl teams have? They were loaded at the skill positions on Offense, and even more loaded on Defense. Im curious what opponents “figured out” with them lol
1975 he did a little better with 190 net passing yards and a bomb to Swann, but completed less than 50% of his passes. The defense picked off Staubach 3 times and sacked him 7 times. Defense does it again.
>
You forgot to mention Bradshaw accounted for both Steelers Touchdowns in that game. And threw zero Interceptions with a 122.5 passer rating. So it was both offense and defense.
1975 he did a little better with 190 net passing yards and a bomb to Swann, but completed less than 50% of his passes. The defense picked off Staubach 3 times and sacked him 7 times. Defense does it again.
>
You forgot to mention Bradshaw accounted for both Steelers Touchdowns in that game. And threw zero Interceptions with a 122.5 passer rating. So it was both offense and defense.
I mentioned the relevant facts, including the long TD pass to Swann. He was a game manager here, completing only 9 of 19 passes. 9 completions.
It's OBVIOUS that Swann was the big factor in the game with Harris accounting for over 100 total yards.
The DEFENSE won that game. Bradshaw simply didn't screw it up.
@perkdog said:
Personally I dont think he is a Troll I just think he is way off with Bradshaw lol
I like to give credit where credit is due. Bradshaw really improved his game after 1977 when the league started to give QB's some protection.
He had a good year in 1978, but dropped off 79-80. Was not in the top 15 in completion % in any of his last 4 years. I ignored 1983.
Disagree about 79. The Steelers had the #2 passing offense in the NFL.
He was the 8th rated QB and 15th in completion %.
AVERAGE QB..............GREAT WR's
Edited to add; too many interceptions that year, he was about the 5th best QB that year. If this is one of his best years, he certainly does not merit HOF.
Nah, great receivers arn't borderline HOF. Many people dont think Stallworth and Swann deserve to be in the HOF. Bradshaw was selected to the pro bowl, and was selected SPORTS ILLUSTRATED Sportsman of the year award in 79. Not too shabby of a year. Average QB lol.
Stauback, Theismann, Fouts , Anderson and Stabler were ALL better than he was in 1979, he was equal to Zorn, Grogan and Jaworski, right where he belonged.
The facts here are obvious to everyone but you.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Haters can list any stat to make their case. Defense didnt throw a bomb that traveled 70 yrds in the air. Thanks to Bradshaw's strong arm. You have to score points to win games usually.
If you combine regular and post-season, Bradshaw was the best QB in 79. He won the biggest games as the teams leader. Staubach laid an egg in the playoffs 13 for 28 attempts against the rams. And Fouts laid an egg 0 td's, 5 interceptions, against the oilers. Two teams that Bradshaw wiped the floor with in the playoffs.
Not a hater at all. Why is it you trolls always have to accuse people of being "haters"?
Trolls say ridiculous things that are simply untrue (70 yards in the air), mixing them in with their own stats to make their case.
First two SB victories were won by the defense, Bradshaw played well in the third victory, but three interceptions in one game in the fourth just proves the point that Bradshaw was a VERY SMALL part of his teams success.
OBVIOUS to everyone here but you.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@coolstanley said:
During his career Mike Kruczek never threw a touchdown pass in a regular season game and currently holds the league record for career pass attempts, 154, without a touchdown.
Yep he was as good as Bradshaw LOL.
And yet Pittsburgh went 6-1 in his starts. Kinda tells you that the QB didn't matter much for them, eh?
Actually he went undefeated for the Steelers, his loss was when he was with Washington.
@coolstanley said:
During his career Mike Kruczek never threw a touchdown pass in a regular season game and currently holds the league record for career pass attempts, 154, without a touchdown.
Yep he was as good as Bradshaw LOL.
And yet Pittsburgh went 6-1 in his starts. Kinda tells you that the QB didn't matter much for them, eh?
Actually he went undefeated for the Steelers, his loss was when he was with Washington.
Quit confusing me with facts.
Sorry
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@coolstanley said:
Haters can list any stat to make their case. Defense didnt throw a bomb that traveled 70 yrds in the air. Thanks to Bradshaw's strong arm. You have to score points to win games usually.
If you combine regular and post-season, Bradshaw was the best QB in 79. He won the biggest games as the teams leader. Staubach laid an egg in the playoffs 13 for 28 attempts against the rams. And Fouts laid an egg 0 td's, 5 interceptions, against the oilers. Two teams that Bradshaw wiped the floor with in the playoffs.
Have to disagree with you on the 79 SB. Dallas wins that game if Jackie Smith doesn't throw the game. I could have caught that pass 100 out of 100 times!!!
@JoeBanzai said:
Not a hater at all. Why is it you trolls always have to accuse people of being "haters"?
Trolls say ridiculous things that are simply untrue (70 yards in the air), mixing them in with their own stats to make their case.
First two SB victories were won by the defense, Bradshaw played well in the third victory, but three interceptions in one game in the fourth just proves the point that Bradshaw was a VERY SMALL part of his teams success.
OBVIOUS to everyone here but you.
Most people agree with me. Just go on youtube and look at all the comments from his highlight films. Steelers are one of the most hated teams in pro sports. So, Bradshaw is a easy target for you haters.
Plenty of HOF qb's threw alot of interceptions. And if you actually know anything about football, you would know that not all interceptions are the QB's fault. And the same goes true for Super Bowl XIV.
Bradshaw is the last player to win back to back Super Bowl MVP's.
The winning TD pass to Swann in Super Bowl X was voted the greatest throw of all-time by NFL films.
@coolstanley said:
Most people agree with me. Just go on youtube and look at all the comments from his highlight films.
LOL! Yes, people who spend the time to search out, watch, and comment on Terry Bradshaw highlight films are definitely a random cross-section of the country. You got us there! I think you have to cop to being a troll with that comment, because the only alternative is unimaginable ignorance.
Steelers are one of the most hated teams in pro sports. So, Bradshaw is a easy target for you haters.
I don't hate the Steelers, or Bradshaw. In fact, Terry Bradshaw is one of the people I'd most like to hang out with - he's a great person. He just wasn't a great QB.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
For the record The Patriots and Astros are the most hated teams, the Steelers have always had a faithful following from lots of people outside that city.
@coolstanley said:
Bradshaw voted top 50 player in NFL history - NFL Network
I win
What coolstanley is neglecting to mention is that the vote was taken in Pittsburgh senior living communities, and that Bradshaw still finished behind Mike Kruczek.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
People that say Bradshaw only won SB's because of their defense make me laugh. Pittsburgh had to score points to get 2 of their games I know. Especially in 79 when it took 35 to beat Dallas. The knock on Bradshaw is crazy. Sure they had a good team, but he had to do his part to and he did. I wish he hadn't but he did..
@DIMEMAN said:
People that say Bradshaw only won SB's because of their defense make me laugh. Pittsburgh had to score points to get 2 of their games I know. Especially in 79 when it took 35 to beat Dallas. The knock on Bradshaw is crazy. Sure they had a good team, but he had to do his part to and he did. I wish he hadn't but he did..
There is no denying that the Steelers defense in those years might have been the best defensive group of players ever assembled; 2 defensive lineman in the HOF and a third that should be in, 2 linebackers that are in HOF, a cornerback and a safety also in the HOF. Their kicker and another DB were all-pro a couple of times too.
What people, including me, are saying is that Bradshaw was one part of a team LOADED with HOFers and near HOFers.
He gets MUCH more credit than he "deserves". Franco Harris was as, if not more, important to the offense and having two HOF receivers was also a huge advantage.
Bradshaw did have a strong (inaccurate) arm, and was a pretty good to very good athlete.
In the regular season when the team was horrible, so was he. When the team was great, he was in the top 10 as far as QBs go and maybe even top 5 a couple of years. NEVER the best QB in any year.
He had one very good SB, other than that, his team won the other 3.
In the first SB win against my Vikings he did next to NOTHING, that game was won by Harris and the "Steel Curtain".
In the second SB win, it was again the defense that beat your Cowboys, sacking Roger SEVEN times and intercepting him THREE times. They held the Cowboys to 10 points until the last 2 minutes. Swan was the star of the game. Bradshaw was good, not great, completing just 9 passes.
In win number three Bradshaw finally was as good as one or two of you think he was, the defense also held the Cowboys down until the last 3 minutes when Roger threw 2 TDs, making the game appear closer than it actually was. But there's no denying that Terry had a great game.
In win number four it was good and bad for Bradshaw, he completed two long passes for TDs, but was picked of three times. The defense TOTALLY shut down the Rams running game except for one 39 yard Wendel Tyler run, sacking Ferragamo 4 times and intercepting him once.
He was an OK quarterback with a really strong arm who happened to play for a team full of HOF players.
Oh, he was a fast runner too. Great television personality as well.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@coolstanley said:
Bradshaw voted top 50 player in NFL history - NFL Network
I win
As was said in a movie; You LOSE! You get NOTHING! Good day sir!
MIndnumbingly idiotic ranking! Same people who voted Koufax the greatest pitcher ever.
He's barely in the top 25 QBs.
MAYBE top 100 players.
Off subject, but who do you think was better.......Koufax or Maddox?
Neither, both over rated.
To answer the question; Maddux. Better fielder, longer career.
Koufax; too short of a career. Other than 1 season, an average pitcher on the road. Great at home for 4-5 years. GREAT fastball/curve. Could be the most over rated player (except Bradshaw of course) in all of sports.
Maddux; somehow was able to get consistent strike calls on pitches 4-5 inches low AND outside to righthanded batters.
Never will understand the reasoning behind that. He was very accurate..........at putting the ball 4-5 inches low and outside to RH batters. I don't think that means he should get the call. TOTALLY destroys the hitters ability to do his job.
Further on that line of thought; I have never understand the umpires entire thinking process here. If a pitcher has bad control, his strikezone shrinks and if a guy has good control, it expands. Isn't the strike zone supposed to be the same size?
Juan Marichal was MUCH MUCH better than either. He should never have hit Roseboro with a bat though.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@coolstanley said:
Bradshaw voted top 50 player in NFL history - NFL Network
I win
As was said in a movie; You LOSE! You get NOTHING! Good day sir!
MIndnumbingly idiotic ranking! Same people who voted Koufax the greatest pitcher ever.
He's barely in the top 25 QBs.
MAYBE top 100 players.
Off subject, but who do you think was better.......Koufax or Maddox?
Neither, both over rated.
To answer the question; Maddux. Better fielder, longer career.
Koufax; too short of a career. Other than 1 season, an average pitcher on the road. Great at home for 4-5 years. GREAT fastball/curve. Could be the most over rated player (except Bradshaw of course) in all of sports.
Maddux; somehow was able to get consistent strike calls on pitches 4-5 inches low AND outside to righthanded batters.
Never will understand the reasoning behind that. He was very accurate..........at putting the ball 4-5 inches low and outside to RH batters. I don't think that means he should get the call. TOTALLY destroys the hitters ability to do his job.
Further on that line of thought; I have never understand the umpires entire thinking process here. If a pitcher has bad control, his strikezone shrinks and if a guy has good control, it expands. Isn't the strike zone supposed to be the same size?
Juan Marichal was MUCH MUCH better than either. He should never have hit Roseboro with a bat though.
Totally agree with your question on the strike zone. They use to give Tudor on STL a good 6 inches on the outside....I swear! They would show it from above and it was as clear as day! Another thing I could NEVER understand is how umpires can be fooled by catchers framing the pitch!! It either went across the plate or it didn't.
@coolstanley said:
Bradshaw voted top 50 player in NFL history - NFL Network
I win
As was said in a movie; You LOSE! You get NOTHING! Good day sir!
MIndnumbingly idiotic ranking! Same people who voted Koufax the greatest pitcher ever.
He's barely in the top 25 QBs.
MAYBE top 100 players.
Off subject, but who do you think was better.......Koufax or Maddox?
Neither, both over rated.
To answer the question; Maddux. Better fielder, longer career.
Koufax; too short of a career. Other than 1 season, an average pitcher on the road. Great at home for 4-5 years. GREAT fastball/curve. Could be the most over rated player (except Bradshaw of course) in all of sports.
Maddux; somehow was able to get consistent strike calls on pitches 4-5 inches low AND outside to righthanded batters.
Never will understand the reasoning behind that. He was very accurate..........at putting the ball 4-5 inches low and outside to RH batters. I don't think that means he should get the call. TOTALLY destroys the hitters ability to do his job.
Further on that line of thought; I have never understand the umpires entire thinking process here. If a pitcher has bad control, his strikezone shrinks and if a guy has good control, it expands. Isn't the strike zone supposed to be the same size?
Juan Marichal was MUCH MUCH better than either. He should never have hit Roseboro with a bat though.
Totally agree with your question on the strike zone. They use to give Tudor on STL a good 6 inches on the outside....I swear! They would show it from above and it was as clear as day! Another thing I could NEVER understand is how umpires can be fooled by catchers framing the pitch!! It either went across the plate or it didn't.
Go on ebay and buy the book "The Umpire Strikes Back", by ex MLB Umpire Ron Luciano, one of the best baseball books ever written!
One thing he didn't like is when the catcher would pull the glove quickly into the zone.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
There is no denying that the Steelers defense in those years might have been the best defensive group of players ever assembled; 2 defensive lineman in the HOF and a third that should be in, 2 linebackers that are in HOF, a cornerback and a safety also in the HOF. Their kicker and another DB were all-pro a couple of times too.
Who is the other defensive lineman besides Greene in the hall?
There is no denying that the Steelers defense in those years might have been the best defensive group of players ever assembled; 2 defensive lineman in the HOF and a third that should be in, 2 linebackers that are in HOF, a cornerback and a safety also in the HOF. Their kicker and another DB were all-pro a couple of times too.
Who is the other defensive lineman besides Greene in the hall?
My mistake. I was certain Greenwood, who made 6 Pro Bowls was in.
Point remains that the defense was among the best to ever take the field.
@JoeBanzai said:
Griese was all-pro 8 times Joe 2 times. Joe also got a late start to his career.
Maybe so, but Theismann was still a better QB. Griese only threw a total of 11 passes in Super Bowl VII. That's not a misprint - 11 passes.
And Griese was hurt for most of the 1972 season. I believe he only started 5 games before the playoffs. Earl Morrall was the starting QB for the Dolphins almost the entire 1972 season.
@coolstanley said:
THIS is why Terry Bradshaw is in the Hall. Top 50 NFL player of all time.
Bradshaw currently holds two Super Bowl records.... Game Yds/Pass Att - 14.7 and Career Yds/Pass Att - 11.1
He is 3rd in all time career SB touchdown passes - 9
He is 3rd all time in SB game passing touchdowns - 4
He is fourth all-time in Super Bowl passer rating - 112.8
And sixth all time in SB passing yds - 932
The question put to you is to identify something - anything - about Bradshaw that shows him to be a great QB separate from the deserving HOFers that surrounded him. Now, I understand that passing stats by their nature are not individual stats, and allocating credit among the QB, receivers and O-line is very subjective. You could try to do that, but you didn't. You went straight to Super Bowl stats, and nothing but Super Bowl stats. I can think of nothing more indicative that a QB is playing for a great team than career Super Bowl records. Nothing. You have selected the stats that are absolutely the MOST dependent on Bradshaw's teammates.
Either you get that, but answered this way anyway because it's all you've got, or you don't get that and discussing this further will lead to nothing but frustration. Either way, I've reached the end of this discussion.
Bradshaw threw almost as many INTs as touchdowns during his career. If it wasn't for the 4 Super Bowl victories, Bradshaw definitely wouldn't be worthy of Hall Of Fame consideration. He was not as good as some other QBs from the 1970s, such as Roger Staubach. I don't believe Bradshaw was as good as Joe Theismann, either.
@perkdog said:
Because Griese has two Super Bowls and had the undefeated Season.
Greise only threw 11 passes in Super Bowl VII. That's not a misprint -- 11 passes. All that team did was run, run, run.
And Greise only started 5 regular season games during the 1972 season, due to injuries. Earl Morrall was the starting QB for Miami for the other 9 regular season games that year.
@coolstanley said:
His career stats are very similar to Bob Griese. And Joe has a season MVP award.
Joe Theismann is definitely worthy of the Hall Of Fame. He is the only QB with a Super Bowl win (1982) and an NFL MVP award (1983) who is not in the HOF.
Theismann was only a starter for 7 - 8 seasons, but he had more passing yards than Roger Staubach and almost as many passing yards as Terry Bradshaw. And Theismann had a better TD/INT ratio than Bradshaw, which is one of the most important stats for a QB. Theismann also has one of the best winning percentages as a starting QB all-time.
The 1982 and 1983 Washington Redskins teams were extremely dominant. The 1983 Redskins are still ranked 9th all-time in points scored in one season. The 1983 Redskins are the only team prior to the 1990s that still ranks in the top 10 in most points scored during a season, which tells you how dominant their offense was with Theismann as QB.
Theismann was a great QB and he should be in the Hall Of Fame.
@perkdog said:
Personally I dont think he is a Troll I just think he is way off with Bradshaw lol
I like to give credit where credit is due. Bradshaw really improved his game after 1977 when the league started to give QB's some protection.
He had a good year in 1978, but dropped off 79-80. Was not in the top 15 in completion % in any of his last 4 years. I ignored 1983.
That is incorrect. 1979 was one of Theismann's best seasons. 1980 was a drop off. And Theismann had extremely good years from 1981 - 1984, especially 1983.
@coolstanley said:
Aikman's career completion % is higher than Dan Marino. I dont think you're giving these guys enough credit, Dallas.
Aikman was a better QB than Marino. I don't know how anybody could possibly put Marino ahead of Aikman. Passing yards are such an overrated stat for QBs.
@perkdog said:
Because Griese has two Super Bowls and had the undefeated Season.
He does have the two Super Bowls - as do, of course, all of his teammates - but whatever credit we're giving the QB for the undefeated season mostly goes to Earl Morrall. Earl won 9 regular season games (Griese won 5), and both playoff games, and led the league in passer rating that year. That team was built on defense and the running game; who they slotted in at QB was of relatively minor importance.
In the other SB year, the Dolphins ran for 2,500 yards (3rd in the league) and threw for 1,700 (21st); the QB was even less important than in the undefeated season.
Griese was a fine QB but the only thing that separated him from a dozen other similar QBs was that Griese's team had better defense. That won him a couple of Super Bowls, but it's a very silly reason to put him in the HOF.
So you are saying Griese should not be in...….maybe, maybe not. But because he's in, we should put Theisman in because he has similar stats? I'm confused.
Theismann should be in because he was better than Greise. And he was also much better than Ken Stabler, who threw way too many INTs.
@perkdog said:
Because Griese has two Super Bowls and had the undefeated Season.
Greise only threw 11 passes in Super Bowl VII. That's not a misprint -- 11 passes. All that team did was run, run, run.
And Greise only started 5 regular season games during the 1972 season, due to injuries. Earl Morrall was the starting QB for Miami for the other 9 regular season games that year.
I think I was referring to the fact that those are the reasons Griese gets more love than Thiesman. I would take Thiesman over Griese anytime
@coolstanley said:
Aikman's career completion % is higher than Dan Marino. I dont think you're giving these guys enough credit, Dallas.
It just makes me LOL when these guys say Aikman & Bradshaw weren't that good!! LOL LOL LOL!!!!! They were both great and in the HOF where they belong.
I agree that Aikman was great. Bradshaw threw almost as many INTs during his career as TDs. However, Bradshaw did play well in the 4 Super Bowls, there is no denying that.
@jnhutchi said:
Among retired QBs who played during the last 50 years who are not in the Hall Of Fame, these are the 5 QBs who I think are most deserving:
1) Joe Theismann
2) Phil Simms
3) Ken Anderson
4) Boomer Esiason
5) Eli Manning
I believe Peyton Manning will be getting inducted this year.
Your going to get blown up with that list by @dallasactuary, he LOVES Ken Anderson!
@jnhutchi said:
Among retired QBs who played during the last 50 years who are not in the Hall Of Fame, these are the 5 QBs who I think are most deserving:
1) Joe Theismann
2) Phil Simms
3) Ken Anderson
4) Boomer Esiason
5) Eli Manning
I believe Peyton Manning will be getting inducted this year.
Your going to get blown up with that list by @dallasactuary, he LOVES Ken Anderson!
Anderson was great. He should be in the HOF. If his Bengals teams had a little more playoff success in the 1970s, he would probably be in the HOF. And I would definitely take Anderson over Bradshaw, Griese, and Stabler.
@perkdog said:
Personally I dont think he is a Troll I just think he is way off with Bradshaw lol
I like to give credit where credit is due. Bradshaw really improved his game after 1977 when the league started to give QB's some protection.
He had a good year in 1978, but dropped off 79-80. Was not in the top 15 in completion % in any of his last 4 years. I ignored 1983.
That is incorrect. 1979 was one of Theismann's best seasons. 1980 was a drop off. And Theismann had extremely good years from 1981 - 1984, especially 1983.
Please read more carefully. I was talking about Bradshaw, not Theismann!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
did you recently buy a mitch trubisky bobblehead doll by chance?
Too funny
Aikman is maybe the 15 QB all-time.
Marino is for sure top 10.
Both great.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
did you recently buy a mitch trubisky bobblehead doll by chance?
Too funny
Aikman is maybe the 15 QB all-time.
Marino is for sure top 10.
Both great.
m
What makes Marino better than Aikman? Aikman won when it counted and he had a higher completion percentage.
Marino's career playoff record was 8 - 10, in the much weaker AFC. The NFC was much better than AFC during the 1980s and 1990s, yet Aikman's Cowboys won a lot in the 1990s. That is a measure of his greatness as a QB. And I say this as a Washington fan.
did you recently buy a mitch trubisky bobblehead doll by chance?
Too funny
Aikman is maybe the 15 QB all-time.
Marino is for sure top 10.
Both great.
m
What makes Marino better than Aikman? Aikman won when it counted and he had a higher completion percentage.
Marino's career playoff record was 8 - 10, in the much weaker AFC. The NFC was much better than AFC during the 1980s and 1990s, yet Aikman's Cowboys won a lot in the 1990s. That is a measure of his greatness as a QB. And I say this as a Washington fan.
If you praise Aikman winning alot is a measure of his greatness as a QB, then you need to give the same praise to Bradshaw.
Maybe Troy had a higher completion percentage because he threw the ball short an awful lot? It sure seemed like 10 yard passes were his jam.
Yes I know that Aikman had a marginally better completion % over Marino. Shouldn't it be a lot higher since he didn't the the ball a whole lot? Yes I know Marino had a marginally better yards per attempt and yards per catch average over Troy. Yes I know that Aikman played on great teams and Marino not so much.
I'll take Marino's 420 TD passes. That's not 100 more then Troy. That's not 200 more then Troy. It's 255 more then Aikman. He had 165.
FWIW competition % is often an over rated stat used by itself. Troy was not known for the long ball and it wasn't his strength.
If they were choosing up sides amongst his peers I have ZERO doubt Marino gets picked ahead of Aikman everyday of the week and twice on Sunday's.
You're more then welcome to think Aikman was better then Marino. No skin off my nose. I've always just considered them in two different tiers.
.
And to answer the original Theismann question. I would say no but it wouldn't bother me if he was in the hall
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Imma go way out on a limb here and guess that Theismann isn't in the HOF because he wasn't nearly good enough. He was very good for two years - 1982-1983 - good for a few more and just taking up space for the other seven. For the "but he won a Super Bowl" crowd, rest assured that the player most responsible for winning that Super Bowl is in the HOF already; has been for almost 30 years.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
did you recently buy a mitch trubisky bobblehead doll by chance?
Too funny
Aikman is maybe the 15 QB all-time.
Marino is for sure top 10.
Both great.
m
What makes Marino better than Aikman? Aikman won when it counted and he had a higher completion percentage.
Marino's career playoff record was 8 - 10, in the much weaker AFC. The NFC was much better than AFC during the 1980s and 1990s, yet Aikman's Cowboys won a lot in the 1990s. That is a measure of his greatness as a QB. And I say this as a Washington fan.
If you praise Aikman winning alot is a measure of his greatness as a QB, then you need to give the same praise to Bradshaw.
I disagree because Aikman's TD/INT ratio was significantly better than Bradshaw's. And Bradshaw was absolutely horrible his first 4 years in the league. If Bradshaw had played in the modern NFL, he would have been benched after 1 - 2 seasons and would have become another Josh Rosen or Dwayne Haskins.
did you recently buy a mitch trubisky bobblehead doll by chance?
Too funny
Aikman is maybe the 15 QB all-time.
Marino is for sure top 10.
Both great.
m
What makes Marino better than Aikman? Aikman won when it counted and he had a higher completion percentage.
Marino's career playoff record was 8 - 10, in the much weaker AFC. The NFC was much better than AFC during the 1980s and 1990s, yet Aikman's Cowboys won a lot in the 1990s. That is a measure of his greatness as a QB. And I say this as a Washington fan.
If you praise Aikman winning alot is a measure of his greatness as a QB, then you need to give the same praise to Bradshaw.
I disagree because Aikman's TD/INT ratio was significantly better than Bradshaw's. And Bradshaw was absolutely horrible his first 4 years in the league. If Bradshaw had played in the modern NFL, he would have been benched after 1 - 2 seasons and would have become another Josh Rosen or Dwayne Haskins.
Bradshaw would be awesome in todays game. In his era they didnt protect QB's like they did when Aikman played. Bradshaw was better...3 MVP's .. Aikman - 0 MVP awards.
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I'm sorry that Big game records dont impress you. But in reality, thats what fans remember. The player that stepped up his game in The big game. And thats the reason why Bradshaw is one of the most popular quarterbacks in NFL history. Last time i checked, its the QB that gets the most credit for wins. Thats why they make the big bucks. But go ahead and keep spewing out your nonsense.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Nah, great receivers arn't borderline HOF. Many people dont think Stallworth and Swann deserve to be in the HOF. Bradshaw was selected to the pro bowl, and was selected SPORTS ILLUSTRATED Sportsman of the year award in 79. Not too shabby of a year. Average QB lol.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Many QB's struggle during their early years before they achieve greatness. In his first five seasons, Dan Fouts threw for 34 TD's and 57 INT's.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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What weaknesses did the Steelers 70’s Super Bowl teams have? They were loaded at the skill positions on Offense, and even more loaded on Defense. Im curious what opponents “figured out” with them lol
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You forgot to mention Bradshaw accounted for both Steelers Touchdowns in that game. And threw zero Interceptions with a 122.5 passer rating. So it was both offense and defense.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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I mentioned the relevant facts, including the long TD pass to Swann. He was a game manager here, completing only 9 of 19 passes. 9 completions.
It's OBVIOUS that Swann was the big factor in the game with Harris accounting for over 100 total yards.
The DEFENSE won that game. Bradshaw simply didn't screw it up.
Stauback, Theismann, Fouts , Anderson and Stabler were ALL better than he was in 1979, he was equal to Zorn, Grogan and Jaworski, right where he belonged.
The facts here are obvious to everyone but you.
Haters can list any stat to make their case. Defense didnt throw a bomb that traveled 70 yrds in the air. Thanks to Bradshaw's strong arm. You have to score points to win games usually.
If you combine regular and post-season, Bradshaw was the best QB in 79. He won the biggest games as the teams leader. Staubach laid an egg in the playoffs 13 for 28 attempts against the rams. And Fouts laid an egg 0 td's, 5 interceptions, against the oilers. Two teams that Bradshaw wiped the floor with in the playoffs.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Not a hater at all. Why is it you trolls always have to accuse people of being "haters"?
Trolls say ridiculous things that are simply untrue (70 yards in the air), mixing them in with their own stats to make their case.
First two SB victories were won by the defense, Bradshaw played well in the third victory, but three interceptions in one game in the fourth just proves the point that Bradshaw was a VERY SMALL part of his teams success.
OBVIOUS to everyone here but you.
Quit confusing me with facts.
Sorry
Have to disagree with you on the 79 SB. Dallas wins that game if Jackie Smith doesn't throw the game. I could have caught that pass 100 out of 100 times!!!
Most people agree with me. Just go on youtube and look at all the comments from his highlight films. Steelers are one of the most hated teams in pro sports. So, Bradshaw is a easy target for you haters.
Plenty of HOF qb's threw alot of interceptions. And if you actually know anything about football, you would know that not all interceptions are the QB's fault. And the same goes true for Super Bowl XIV.
Bradshaw is the last player to win back to back Super Bowl MVP's.
The winning TD pass to Swann in Super Bowl X was voted the greatest throw of all-time by NFL films.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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No one agrees with you, because you are wrong.
That's ok though, every village needs an idiot.
LOL! Yes, people who spend the time to search out, watch, and comment on Terry Bradshaw highlight films are definitely a random cross-section of the country. You got us there! I think you have to cop to being a troll with that comment, because the only alternative is unimaginable ignorance.
I don't hate the Steelers, or Bradshaw. In fact, Terry Bradshaw is one of the people I'd most like to hang out with - he's a great person. He just wasn't a great QB.
For the record The Patriots and Astros are the most hated teams, the Steelers have always had a faithful following from lots of people outside that city.
Bradshaw voted top 50 player in NFL history - NFL Network
I win
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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😂😂😂. Yea because the NFL network is gospel
What coolstanley is neglecting to mention is that the vote was taken in Pittsburgh senior living communities, and that Bradshaw still finished behind Mike Kruczek.
People that say Bradshaw only won SB's because of their defense make me laugh. Pittsburgh had to score points to get 2 of their games I know. Especially in 79 when it took 35 to beat Dallas. The knock on Bradshaw is crazy. Sure they had a good team, but he had to do his part to and he did. I wish he hadn't but he did..
There is no denying that the Steelers defense in those years might have been the best defensive group of players ever assembled; 2 defensive lineman in the HOF and a third that should be in, 2 linebackers that are in HOF, a cornerback and a safety also in the HOF. Their kicker and another DB were all-pro a couple of times too.
What people, including me, are saying is that Bradshaw was one part of a team LOADED with HOFers and near HOFers.
He gets MUCH more credit than he "deserves". Franco Harris was as, if not more, important to the offense and having two HOF receivers was also a huge advantage.
Bradshaw did have a strong (inaccurate) arm, and was a pretty good to very good athlete.
In the regular season when the team was horrible, so was he. When the team was great, he was in the top 10 as far as QBs go and maybe even top 5 a couple of years. NEVER the best QB in any year.
He had one very good SB, other than that, his team won the other 3.
In the first SB win against my Vikings he did next to NOTHING, that game was won by Harris and the "Steel Curtain".
In the second SB win, it was again the defense that beat your Cowboys, sacking Roger SEVEN times and intercepting him THREE times. They held the Cowboys to 10 points until the last 2 minutes. Swan was the star of the game. Bradshaw was good, not great, completing just 9 passes.
In win number three Bradshaw finally was as good as one or two of you think he was, the defense also held the Cowboys down until the last 3 minutes when Roger threw 2 TDs, making the game appear closer than it actually was. But there's no denying that Terry had a great game.
In win number four it was good and bad for Bradshaw, he completed two long passes for TDs, but was picked of three times. The defense TOTALLY shut down the Rams running game except for one 39 yard Wendel Tyler run, sacking Ferragamo 4 times and intercepting him once.
He was an OK quarterback with a really strong arm who happened to play for a team full of HOF players.
Oh, he was a fast runner too. Great television personality as well.
As was said in a movie; You LOSE! You get NOTHING! Good day sir!
MIndnumbingly idiotic ranking! Same people who voted Koufax the greatest pitcher ever.
He's barely in the top 25 QBs.
MAYBE top 100 players.
Off subject, but who do you think was better.......Koufax or Maddox?
Neither, both over rated.
To answer the question; Maddux. Better fielder, longer career.
Koufax; too short of a career. Other than 1 season, an average pitcher on the road. Great at home for 4-5 years. GREAT fastball/curve. Could be the most over rated player (except Bradshaw of course) in all of sports.
Maddux; somehow was able to get consistent strike calls on pitches 4-5 inches low AND outside to righthanded batters.
Never will understand the reasoning behind that. He was very accurate..........at putting the ball 4-5 inches low and outside to RH batters. I don't think that means he should get the call. TOTALLY destroys the hitters ability to do his job.
Further on that line of thought; I have never understand the umpires entire thinking process here. If a pitcher has bad control, his strikezone shrinks and if a guy has good control, it expands. Isn't the strike zone supposed to be the same size?
Juan Marichal was MUCH MUCH better than either. He should never have hit Roseboro with a bat though.
Totally agree with your question on the strike zone. They use to give Tudor on STL a good 6 inches on the outside....I swear! They would show it from above and it was as clear as day! Another thing I could NEVER understand is how umpires can be fooled by catchers framing the pitch!! It either went across the plate or it didn't.
Go on ebay and buy the book "The Umpire Strikes Back", by ex MLB Umpire Ron Luciano, one of the best baseball books ever written!
One thing he didn't like is when the catcher would pull the glove quickly into the zone.
Who is the other defensive lineman besides Greene in the hall?
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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Always a couple comedians on message boards to make people laugh.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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My mistake. I was certain Greenwood, who made 6 Pro Bowls was in.
Point remains that the defense was among the best to ever take the field.
True, the defense only won 3 out of 4.
Maybe so, but Theismann was still a better QB. Griese only threw a total of 11 passes in Super Bowl VII. That's not a misprint - 11 passes.
And Griese was hurt for most of the 1972 season. I believe he only started 5 games before the playoffs. Earl Morrall was the starting QB for the Dolphins almost the entire 1972 season.
Bradshaw threw almost as many INTs as touchdowns during his career. If it wasn't for the 4 Super Bowl victories, Bradshaw definitely wouldn't be worthy of Hall Of Fame consideration. He was not as good as some other QBs from the 1970s, such as Roger Staubach. I don't believe Bradshaw was as good as Joe Theismann, either.
Greise only threw 11 passes in Super Bowl VII. That's not a misprint -- 11 passes. All that team did was run, run, run.
And Greise only started 5 regular season games during the 1972 season, due to injuries. Earl Morrall was the starting QB for Miami for the other 9 regular season games that year.
Joe Theismann is definitely worthy of the Hall Of Fame. He is the only QB with a Super Bowl win (1982) and an NFL MVP award (1983) who is not in the HOF.
Theismann was only a starter for 7 - 8 seasons, but he had more passing yards than Roger Staubach and almost as many passing yards as Terry Bradshaw. And Theismann had a better TD/INT ratio than Bradshaw, which is one of the most important stats for a QB. Theismann also has one of the best winning percentages as a starting QB all-time.
The 1982 and 1983 Washington Redskins teams were extremely dominant. The 1983 Redskins are still ranked 9th all-time in points scored in one season. The 1983 Redskins are the only team prior to the 1990s that still ranks in the top 10 in most points scored during a season, which tells you how dominant their offense was with Theismann as QB.
Theismann was a great QB and he should be in the Hall Of Fame.
That is incorrect. 1979 was one of Theismann's best seasons. 1980 was a drop off. And Theismann had extremely good years from 1981 - 1984, especially 1983.
Aikman was a better QB than Marino. I don't know how anybody could possibly put Marino ahead of Aikman. Passing yards are such an overrated stat for QBs.
Theismann should be in because he was better than Greise. And he was also much better than Ken Stabler, who threw way too many INTs.
I think I was referring to the fact that those are the reasons Griese gets more love than Thiesman. I would take Thiesman over Griese anytime
Among retired QBs who played during the last 50 years who are not in the Hall Of Fame, these are the 5 QBs who I think are most deserving:
1) Joe Theismann
2) Phil Simms
3) Ken Anderson
4) Boomer Esiason
5) Eli Manning
I believe Peyton Manning will be getting inducted this year.
I agree that Aikman was great. Bradshaw threw almost as many INTs during his career as TDs. However, Bradshaw did play well in the 4 Super Bowls, there is no denying that.
Your going to get blown up with that list by @dallasactuary, he LOVES Ken Anderson!
Anderson was great. He should be in the HOF. If his Bengals teams had a little more playoff success in the 1970s, he would probably be in the HOF. And I would definitely take Anderson over Bradshaw, Griese, and Stabler.
Please read more carefully. I was talking about Bradshaw, not Theismann!
did you recently buy a mitch trubisky bobblehead doll by chance?
Too funny
Aikman is maybe the 15 QB all-time.
Marino is for sure top 10.
Both great.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What makes Marino better than Aikman? Aikman won when it counted and he had a higher completion percentage.
Marino's career playoff record was 8 - 10, in the much weaker AFC. The NFC was much better than AFC during the 1980s and 1990s, yet Aikman's Cowboys won a lot in the 1990s. That is a measure of his greatness as a QB. And I say this as a Washington fan.
If you praise Aikman winning alot is a measure of his greatness as a QB, then you need to give the same praise to Bradshaw.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Maybe Troy had a higher completion percentage because he threw the ball short an awful lot? It sure seemed like 10 yard passes were his jam.
Yes I know that Aikman had a marginally better completion % over Marino. Shouldn't it be a lot higher since he didn't the the ball a whole lot? Yes I know Marino had a marginally better yards per attempt and yards per catch average over Troy. Yes I know that Aikman played on great teams and Marino not so much.
I'll take Marino's 420 TD passes. That's not 100 more then Troy. That's not 200 more then Troy. It's 255 more then Aikman. He had 165.
FWIW competition % is often an over rated stat used by itself. Troy was not known for the long ball and it wasn't his strength.
If they were choosing up sides amongst his peers I have ZERO doubt Marino gets picked ahead of Aikman everyday of the week and twice on Sunday's.
You're more then welcome to think Aikman was better then Marino. No skin off my nose. I've always just considered them in two different tiers.
.
And to answer the original Theismann question. I would say no but it wouldn't bother me if he was in the hall
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Troy Aikman had such a better team around him than Marino ever did
Imma go way out on a limb here and guess that Theismann isn't in the HOF because he wasn't nearly good enough. He was very good for two years - 1982-1983 - good for a few more and just taking up space for the other seven. For the "but he won a Super Bowl" crowd, rest assured that the player most responsible for winning that Super Bowl is in the HOF already; has been for almost 30 years.
I disagree because Aikman's TD/INT ratio was significantly better than Bradshaw's. And Bradshaw was absolutely horrible his first 4 years in the league. If Bradshaw had played in the modern NFL, he would have been benched after 1 - 2 seasons and would have become another Josh Rosen or Dwayne Haskins.
Bradshaw would be awesome in todays game. In his era they didnt protect QB's like they did when Aikman played. Bradshaw was better...3 MVP's .. Aikman - 0 MVP awards.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21