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How can PCGS rat e this SLQ at XF45
Kirk222
Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭
I've been collecting these quarters for over 60 years. Having said that, I would never grade this beyond F12. How on earth has this grading system changed so much? What do you grade this one at?
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Looks like some wear and not much remaining luster. The luster is the overriding factor, IMO.
Must have a very weak strike, but enough luster for XF.
To me it just looks like a very weak strike, like the high points didn't fill the die.
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Probably a weakly struck date/mint. Even the MS ones have lousy head detail. Here is a XF45 image from Coinfacts:
Still, the ebay coin could be a tad generous based on the seller's images.
Looks accurately graded to me. Strike is exceptionally weak (and you’re probably interpreting that as wear). It’s not a coin that I’d want.
27-S's are notoriously flatly struck. I don't know about you guys...but I'm seeing enough luster for an AU!
There's a lot of WEAR on that coin in addition to the weak strike. Look at Liberty's right leg.
I'm seeing quite a bit of luster also......It is just a photo......
Just looked at the 27s in the price guide. The 67+ looks weakly struck. I am not an expert in SLQ’s, but maybe this is normal. Still not a coin I would be interested in.
As said above, Most 27-s are weak struck. I would not want to own one like this either, but its an xf.
Years ago, I made a huge score on one I bought out of a dealers show case as fine, it graded xf45.
Luster carried the day for that coin, I'm in the weak strike camp and think PCGS got it right, though it would be a coin I'd be hesitant to buy.
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Weak strike?
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Accurate grade, just a weak strike.
@Kirk222 said: "I would never grade this beyond F12. How on earth has this grading system changed so much?"
You are correct. The grades assigned to coins have changed a lot!
You have me beat old-timer but FIFTY years ago this coin was a Very Fine, weak strike. Its remaining mint luster is the key to its grade back then and now too. Today, most coins showing ANY luster at all (our old VF's) will usually rate a commercial XF grade by dealers.
@koynekwest said: "There's **a lot of WEAR **on that coin in addition to the weak strike. Look at Liberty's right leg."
Actually there is wear on the coin. The problem many folks have is simple. Take two perfect SLQ, one flatly struck as this and one sharp as a tack. Now put an AU amount of rub on the sharp coin, enough to wear the luster from the surface of the high points. That coin will still have blazing white luster all over except the high points will be gray.
Now do the same with the flat coin, enough rub to disturb the luster. In this case, the coin will be blazing white except for a very large gray area (where the luster was removed from the flat surface that never had any design detail. The coin will have the details of a very worn coin but the original mint luster of a higher grade.
Look at the two coins. One will be AU-55 to 58. So will the other (TECHNICALLY AU, flat strike); but it will look like a VF/XF to collectors who don't know how to grade. There is an additional thing to consider: VALUE. The Flat AU coin is not worth AU or possibly even XF money!!
come now Insider2, some collectors are just better at market grading for themselves
FWIW that seller is a member here, but I don't recall any recent posting activity.
If the collector of sixty years says it is a F12, I believe his opinion over PCGS graders. What, collectors here don't think the collector of SLQs of sixty years doesn't know about strike issues?
Graders at PCGS held the coin in their hands. Has the collector of sixty years seen the coin in person, or is he grading from a picture in an eBay listing?
@ARCO said: "If the collector of sixty years says it is a F12, I believe his opinion over PCGS graders. [LOL. In this case, what you me and him think has no effect on the reality of a modern TPGS opinion.]"
"What, collectors here don't think the collector of SLQs of sixty years doesn't know about strike issues?"
Me.
It's very obvious by calling that coin a Fine-12.
Weak strike is what I see...
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IMO of course...The actual condition of a coin has NOTHING to do with its eye appeal, value, rarity, cost, TPGS opinion, or whether we like it or not. Everything aside from a precise evaluation of the coin's condition of preservation from the moment it was struck is "FLUFF." Important "fluff but still just "fluff."
PCGS graders know that some coins were roached when they left the mint and have to grade accordingly. I don’t envy them. Charlotte and Dahlonega coins are often good examples as is the op coin.
Let's try the images together - ebay coin:
Coinfacts coin:
Coinfacts coin still looks better, at least strike-wise. Like others mentioned, the ebay coin likely got a bump for luster.
I'm here... just don't post as much as I used to...
To the OP, if you're selling any F12 SLQs that look anywhere close to my coin, please offer them to me, thank you in advance
Seriously though, the strike is obviously weak in the center of each side... but the detail on the rest of the coin is nice. The luster is strong and better than you'd see on a typical XF coin... probably closer to the luster you see on a nice AU coin, but net graded/limited to XF45 because of the weakness. I think the photos I took are pretty accurate but here's a video too:
edited to add... if any of you are at the Long Beach show this week and want to see it for yourself, I'm at table 448
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Well, you might be on to something but there are plenty of collectors with 1 year of experience who have learned more than many collectors with 60 years of experience. In no way am I suggesting the OP is in any particular group, as I don't know anything about him.
I'll take the coin in the OP over the one in your link - surfaces look funky, plus it's raw with a high starting price. That coin really needs to be authenticated and graded.
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