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Token experts... what is this?

USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

Found this in my safe and I have no idea what it is or where I got it ;)

As always, any help is appreciated!


Comments

  • SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,820 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bus fare token?

  • ElectricityElectricity Posts: 318 ✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a bus token for the DC area

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes. I used these in Washington DC to go to school. I think this was early enough to be a streetcar token.

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2020 11:03AM

    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:
    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    Unfortunately, 10,000 is probably about 9,900 more than the market can bear.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had a hard time finding out what "W. M. & A. Motor Lines" stood for.

    It is Washington, Marlboro and Annapolis Motor Lines, Inc., a private company until 1973.

    The company supplied transit service to the Washington DC area.

    :)

    https://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
    Coins in Movies
    Coins on Television

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:
    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    I'll take the over.

    With the original order (1948) needing a supplemental order only two years later (1950) Indicates either an expansion of service (which didn't occur at that time according to records) or a higher than normal attrition rate of the small sized tokens. Keeping an average attrition rate going with the new order would leave me to believe that over 10K survive outside of the company even if the company recycled their entire stock on hand (somewhat dependent on when the company discontinued usage of tokens).

  • USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth "Unfortunately, 10,000 is probably about 9,900 more than the market can bear."

    Does that mean it's junk?

    Also, the quote from cladking... I didn't see his post... ?

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The token catalogs for $0.35 in the current edition of the Atwood-Coffee catalog of transportation tokens which is an accurate value based on my experience in one of my favorite fields. It is common and has always been common since its first issuance in 1948.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In all my years of collecting I have never considered transit tokens to be of much importance. I don't ever remember a discussion of them at the coin clubs I was a member of. Some people do collect them but I doubt if has ever been a "hot" collecting area. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    WOW, Great info as always.. thanks everyone for your time and energy. Much appreciated!

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The last time I used a small token like that one was in 1998 in Toronto, same dimensions but made of aluminum and easy to lose. In the USA those tokens largely died out by the 1970's though I think some cities like NYC were using them a bit later.

    Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro said:

    @cladking said:
    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    I'll take the over.

    With the original order (1948) needing a supplemental order only two years later (1950) Indicates either an expansion of service (which didn't occur at that time according to records) or a higher than normal attrition rate of the small sized tokens. Keeping an average attrition rate going with the new order would leave me to believe that over 10K survive outside of the company even if the company recycled their entire stock on hand (somewhat dependent on when the company discontinued usage of tokens).

    Thanks.

    It's really hard to get a handle on survivorship for tokens. Atwood Coffee suggests a mintage of 80,000 but it seems probable the attrition was extremely high. I'm assuming the company's tokens were destroyed or it would be far more common.

    I've seen only a few of these over the years.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do any cities still use such tokens on a regular basis? I know Detroit had tokens for its People Mover in downtown Detroit. (I have a bunch of them I received in Coinstar machine reject slots.) I don't know if they are still in use.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:

    @cladking said:
    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    Unfortunately, 10,000 is probably about 9,900 more than the market can bear.

    There are probably several hundred transit token collectors. There are also individuals who collect oddball thing like DC memorabilia, oddly shaped "coins", or bus tokens.

    With the advent of the internet there will be growing numbers collecting by themes.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    In all my years of collecting I have never considered transit tokens to be of much importance. I don't ever remember a discussion of them at the coin clubs I was a member of. Some people do collect them but I doubt if has ever been a "hot" collecting area. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    Transit tokens were very important to people who used them. Usually cash would suffice.

    Tokens are interesting in their own right since they not only record what people are doing (or where they're going) but also they encapsulate the age better even than coins. The very existence of the token helps color the lives of those who used them. Like coins they help show how "money" flows.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:

    @291fifth said:

    @cladking said:
    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    Unfortunately, 10,000 is probably about 9,900 more than the market can bear.

    There are probably several hundred transit token collectors. There are also individuals who collect oddball thing like DC memorabilia, oddly shaped "coins", or bus tokens.

    With the advent of the internet there will be growing numbers collecting by themes.

    If there is demand it will likely be for the rare transit tokens from the 19th century. I doubt if big city transit tokens will ever have much of a following. Most are just too boring looking to generate much excitement. I have a small number of such tokens that I keep with elongated cents and wooden nickels in a box.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • USMC_6115USMC_6115 Posts: 3,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why are cladking's posts grayed out?

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:

    @cladking said:

    @291fifth said:

    @cladking said:
    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    Unfortunately, 10,000 is probably about 9,900 more than the market can bear.

    There are probably several hundred transit token collectors. There are also individuals who collect oddball thing like DC memorabilia, oddly shaped "coins", or bus tokens.

    With the advent of the internet there will be growing numbers collecting by themes.

    If there is demand it will likely be for the rare transit tokens from the 19th century. I doubt if big city transit tokens will ever have much of a following. Most are just too boring looking to generate much excitement. I have a small number of such tokens that I keep with elongated cents and wooden nickels in a box.

    You might want to reassess some of your observations as the AVA has kept a membership of 500 to 800+ for decades (similar in size to many specialty organizations). They include all transportation issues including post-Johnson Fare Box tokens in their catalogs both for completeness and because of demand -- many members and others beyond the AVA collect those issues. As previously mentioned, there are hundreds and hundreds of of 16mm, 20mm & 23mm fare box type tokens (20th Century) that regularly sell for $10 to $500 to go along with the hundreds of thousands (actually millions) of tts that are worth 10c or less in bulk -- a bit similar to the way that all those boring Lincoln cents appear to a glass insulator collector, eh?

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, but the transit token issues have never generated much interest on my part. I see them as an area that will decline as the current collectors age and depart from the scene. I can't see any reason why young people would have any interest in them.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:
    It's listed as 500K 16mm 1948

    It's very common and I've never encountered varieties.

    It's not often seen in "mixed lots" so it is not exceedingly common. Probably fewer than 10,000 survive in aggregate.

    @291fifth said:
    Sorry, but the transit token issues have never generated much interest on my part. I see them as an area that will decline as the current collectors age and depart from the scene. I can't see any reason why young people would have any interest in them.

    Just click near the top of the post & it'll be revealed, where it says 'show previous quotes'.

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    Sorry, but the transit token issues have never generated much interest on my part. I see them as an area that will decline as the current collectors age and depart from the scene. I can't see any reason why young people would have any interest in them.

    I don't understand why you believe this.

    There may not be a demand for more than about 500 of each transportation token at the current time. .00015% of the population is demanding a specific TT. That's .000007% of world population.

    What is it about this number (.00015%) that seems "natural"? Most collectors started in the days before the net when finding information and tokens was far more difficult.

    As people have more free time and wealth I'd be surprised if demand doesn't grow substantially.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,683 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cladking said:

    @291fifth said:
    Sorry, but the transit token issues have never generated much interest on my part. I see them as an area that will decline as the current collectors age and depart from the scene. I can't see any reason why young people would have any interest in them.

    I don't understand why you believe this.

    There may not be a demand for more than about 500 of each transportation token at the current time. .00015% of the population is demanding a specific TT. That's .000007% of world population.

    What is it about this number (.00015%) that seems "natural"? Most collectors started in the days before the net when finding information and tokens was far more difficult.

    As people have more free time and wealth I'd be surprised if demand doesn't grow substantially.

    I'll be surprised if demand doesn't fall ... and substantially at that.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, while you two are still discussing I will still be making a market in tts and will be profiting (substantially?).

  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro said:
    Well, while you two are still discussing I will still be making a market in tts and will be profiting (substantially?).

    TT's are great collectible. There are still vast untapped areas with many varieties. Even the most common tokens can have very scarce varieties or that are scarce in high grade (like XF). There are no investors or speculators to drive up acquisition costs and pricing is fairly standard. Collections can become enormous since there are so many issues and so many wholly distinct varieties. Supply and demand are relatively fixed similar to classic US coins. There are still new issues being released. There are so many TT's that it will take years to become familiar with them all.

    Best of all is that these are a very friendly group of collectors who are always willing to help and trade tokens. There are frequent auctions and most won't cost more than a dollar or two.

    There are more reasons that TT's are a great collectible but I'm outta time right now. I'm just a little surprised that money can be made in them.

    tempus fugit extra philosophiam.

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