HOF - Derek Jeter and Larry Walker
Tabe
Posts: 6,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Newest inductees are Derek Jeter and Larry Walker. Jeter was named on 396/397 votes.
0
Comments
I knew there would be one attention seeking ahole to not vote for Jeter.
.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
God Bless America
Where we award stupidity on a daily basis
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I’m happy Both these guys got in
Congratulations to them both!
Opening Day in Cleveland 1996 Dereks 1st HR
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
why did it take walker so long to get in ? he was better than that scrub jeter.
D-
You really suck at trolling lol
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
sorry , i've been under the weather
my theory is that half of the voters in the bbwa are either yankee rumpswabs and ballwashers or they are busy spite voting against whatever mediocre yankee is on the ballot that they forget guys like larry walker are even in the league.
better?
im done for the night the nyquil is kicking in , i won't remember any of this tomorrow
I do think Walker deserves it. He was a pure hit machine, wherever he played, and is finally getting the recognition he deserves.
He was a great hitter. What few seem to care about was that he was a superb fielder with a great arm and ran very well.
When he played right field for the Expos he played the Phillies a lot since they were same division. You just didn't dare run on him.
Walker career WAR 72.7
Jeter career WAR 72.4
Walker 7 year peak WAR 44.6
Jeter 7 year peak WAR 42.4
Walker JAWS 58.7
Jeter JAWS 57.4
One is a first ballot, near unanimous selection, the other takes 10 years. SMDH.
Because if you don't play in NY or LA, it's almost like you don't exist, and they have to debate your worthiness for years!
The knocks on Walker are:
-> He has a shortish career for a HOF outfielder, with just over 8,000 ABs. Even ignoring his first and last two seasons, he sat out over 20% of his team's games.
-> His career Big 3 line of 383/1,311/.313 is excellent; his career line on the road (doubled) of 336/1,128/.297 much less so.
-> When Walker first came up he was a great outfielder. That didn't last long, but he kept winning Gold Gloves he didn't deserve because that's how Gold Gloves work.
Walker was a fine player, and the new Jim Rice - Harold Baines bar to clear to gain induction made Walker a slam dunk, but he's in the Orlando Cepeda class, not the living legend class. I"m fine with Walker being in the HOF, and I'm fine with Cepeda being in the HOF, but I'd also be fine if neither one was there. It would be absurd to have a HOF without Derek Jeter, though.
Road is a little misleading, better to go with Coors vs non-Coors:
AB/H/HR/BA/OBP/SLG:
Coors: 2136/814/154/.381/.462/.710
Elsewhere: 4771/1346/229/.282/.372/.501
He did have some years where he was terrific outside of Coors - 1997, when he won the MVP, he hit .346 away from Coors - but mostly it was years like 1996, where he hit .393 at Coors and .142 on the road. Or 1999 when he hit an absurd .461 at home and .286 on the road.
I spent a good part of a day looking at his home/road splits and went farther and looked at how he performed in EVERY park.
Some years he crushed it in pitchers parks like Dodger Stadium (that's still a pitchers park, isn't it?), sometimes he hit well in hitters parks, he did seem to hit well in STL and MON when he played there as a visitor.
I posted his numbers in a different thread and he was good enough on the road to be a HOFer (or at the very least, close .500 SLG is VERY good) and he was unbelievable at Coors.
He is a little lacking where playing time is concerned, but he did manage to play for 17 years.
Not sure how to measure defense, apparently 7 GG isn't impressive.
Heard he had a great arm and a lot of assists. Is this a rumor?
Walker did miss a lot of games.
Better than Cepeda, looking at the 162 game average; more doubles and a few more HR=MUCH higher SLG. Much higher OB% as well. Scored many more runs. No GG for Orlando either and he played 1B.
Both played for 17 years Cepeda played in 8 more games per year on average.
MUCH, MUCH better than Cepeda. If they belong in the same "tier" Walker is at the top and Cepeda at the bottom.
Walker played in more games per year than Willie Stargell, do we rip Willie?
The first two Gold Gloves are usually impressive; after that, they are awarded to the person who has won the most Gold Gloves much more often than they are awarded to the best fielder. When you see Gold Glove streaks, or near streaks, extending beyond age 30 they are almost always meaningless. Nobody - not you, not me, not a single sportswriter, not BIll James - has the first clue who the best fielding pitcher is any season. So Jim Kaat wins 16 of them and Greg Maddux wins 18 of them. Brooks Robinson deserved maybe half of his Gold Gloves, but he stole the other half from Clete Boyer and Graig Nettles. When you have no idea who the best fielder at any position is, the easy way out is to vote for the guy who won it the year before.
Walker did have a good arm, even great when he was younger, and he did get a lot of assists. That's the other Coors effect. For an OF to get an assist he needs two things (generally): a fly ball, and a runner on second or third. In which ballpark would you expect to see the most fly balls with a baserunner on second or third? There were several years when both Walker and Dante Bichette were on the assist leaders.
Well, I am not going to try to find the home/away splits on assists. Is that even listed?
Let's say he didn't deserve ALL the GG. Was he still very good the years he won but didn't "deserve" it? I do agree the GG has gone to some guys when they didn't deserve it. Hrbek should have gotten a couple.
Most "great" fielders (players actually) would fall into the same category, best when young, peak in mid career and average/below as "old men".
As I have said before he was still playing at a pretty high level (hitting anyway) in his last year, so it looks like he could have hung on a couple more years and gotten to 400 HR and 500 2B. He was still playing RF too, so no 1B at the end.
Well, I am glad he's in, since you seem to be "ok" with it, we agree............sort of. ;-)
Walker was always a good RF, and Gold Glove voters seem to like giving one of the awards to a RF even though there are always - ALWAYS - at least three better outfielders playing CF. And players generally peak earlier as fielders than as hitters. It is the very rare player that deserves a GG after 30, while hitting generally peaks at 27-32.
And while Walker was hitting at a fairly high level his last two years, he was only playing half the games, and retired because even playing half the games was too much for him. If you were a fan of Walker's at the time, you would not have wanted to watch him try to keep going.
And I don't want to pick on Walker, I loved him during his brief stint with the Cardinals even though he spent a big chunk of it on the bench or the DL. Jim Rice should feel honored to lick his shoes, and I compared him to Orlando Cepeda, who was also a great player. My preference would be for the HOF bar to be set where Walker either barely cleared it, or just missed, and that - with few exceptions - was where the line was until recently. But the line isn't there anymore, and Walker is an obvious HOFer now.
Who was the lone voter? I thought he was one of anonymous voters.
The HOF has turned into the HOVG in which case I have no objection to Walker being voted in.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.